Downtown Update

[StEC]

Excellent promotional video to get people (mainly millennials) to move to downtown Hamilton from the Hamilton EcDev

EDIT: Seems the YouTube tags are not working or I'm doing something wrong? Anyway here is the link to watch on YouTube!

• Video Link

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[Dr Awesomesauce]

Not much you can do to them. Definitely an improvement...

[Chronamut]

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by StEC

Excellent promotional video to get people (mainly millennials) to move to downtown Hamilton from the Hamilton EcDev

EDIT: Seems the YouTube tags are not working or I'm doing something wrong? Anyway here is the link to watch on YouTube!

• Video Link

From living at the RC for a while, I can say that there's a significant number of Millennials who live here. Most are Mac Students.

At the same time, I know a lot of young people who live on the Mountain still and have a stigma of Downtown. I know a lot of people in the early 30's who still share that negative stigma of Downtown (for good reasons and for reasons that are no longer true lol)

At least the City is attempting to do something. I personally think we need more restorations of older buildings, cleaner sidewalks and more shopping, etc, before we can expect more younger people to continue moving Downtown.

I think we're moving more in that direction though.

[king10]

Definitely need more shopping. Hopefully that materializes once all these units are completed downtown and their residents want/need higher end places to shop.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by king10

Definitely need more shopping. Hopefully that materializes once all these units are completed downtown and their residents want/need higher end places to shop.

Yup. I know the residents at the RC want more shopping, including higher end shops.

I've mentioned this before. I wish CF purchased Jackson. They have a higher standard when it comes to retail tenants.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by king10

Definitely need more shopping. Hopefully that materializes once all these units are completed downtown and their residents want/need higher end places to shop.

Downtown Hamilton's workforce is around twice the size of its residential population, washing in and out like a tide. The core's service ecosystem is sustained by and largely predicated on that 8am-6pm market base that is loyal to hyperlocal options because of time constraints.

Downtown residential development is great but disposable income is finite and residents are on their own clock, so their dollar travels more widely. It's a chicken-and-egg equation that may require a lot of failed businesses to mark the way forward.

RC residents can start the ball rolling by opening the kind of business that their neighbours are eager to support.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Downtown Hamilton's workforce is around twice the size of its residential population, washing in and out like a tide. The core's service ecosystem is sustained by and largely predicated on that 8am-6pm market base that is loyal to hyperlocal options because of time constraints.

Downtown residential development is great but disposable income is finite and residents are on their own clock, so their dollar travels more widely. It's a chicken-and-egg equation that may require a lot of failed businesses to mark the way forward.

I agree with what you're saying, but I think higher end retail stores, or middle tier department stores (i.e. Zara) would make a killing if they were in Jackson Sq.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by hamilton23

I agree with what you're saying, but I think higher end retail stores, or middle tier department stores (i.e. Zara) would make a killing if they were in Jackson Sq.

JS had a Jacob for years, right across from a Peoples' Jewellers. Both are gone now. In the early '90s, in the depths of downtown woes, there was a Club Monaco and a Benneton.

Retailers often have the same biases that consumers do, and chains typically avoid competing with themselves.

I agree that things are changing, but until there's significant residential density downtown, I suspect that the business model is going to be geared to the convenience of office workers.

[The Gore]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

JS had a Jacob for years, right across from a Peoples' Jewellers. Both are gone now. In the early '90s, in the depths of downtown woes, there was a Club Monaco and a Benneton.

Retailers often have the same biases that consumers do, and chains typically avoid competing with themselves.

I agree that things are changing, but until there's significant residential density downtown, I suspect that the business model is going to be geared to the convenience of office workers.

Birks, Bombay. Harry Rosen in Eaton Centre

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by hamilton23

I agree with what you're saying, but I think higher end retail stores, or middle tier department stores (i.e. Zara) would make a killing if they were in Jackson Sq.

JS is a "utility mall": the place you go on a lunch break for shoe repair, clothing alterations, the pharmacy, the dollar store, the food court, etc.

The bright spots are the large supermarket, the theater, and the attached library.

To me, JS is a depressing place with a very high number of empty storefronts. The current model of retail is already suffering. So unless there is solid evidence of a large increase in residential density in the surrounding area, it will be a cold day in hell before stores like Zara open in Jackson Square.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

JS is a "utility mall": the place you go on a lunch break for shoe repair, clothing alterations, the pharmacy, the dollar store, the food court, etc.

The bright spots are the large supermarket, the theater, and the attached library.

To me, JS is a depressing place with a very high number of empty storefronts. The current model of retail is already suffering. So unless there is solid evidence of a large increase in residential density in the surrounding area, it will be a cold day in hell before stores like Zara open in Jackson Square.

You're correct and I agree with all the points you made here. All of those utility stores do play a purpose and I've used some of them in the past.

However, with Liuna's project starting Construction and with RC3 about to take off soon (amongst others within and around the Downtown Core) I think that increase in residential density is going to be there in another 2-3 years from now.

[thistleclub]

with Liuna's project starting Construction and with RC3 about to take off soon (amongst others within and around the Downtown Core) I think that increase in residential density is going to be there in another 2-3 years from now.

Between Royal Connaught, William Thomas, Kresges towers, Ripple, Acclamation, that’s around 1,800 units. Downtown added 2,000 jobs in the last 6-7 years.

Employment growth has also been a stronger and more reliable growth curve than residential growth.

Between 1986 and 2001, Ward 2's population increased by 2,575. Between 2001 and 2016, Ward 2's population decreased by 1,285.

So with all of the above projects coming online, Ward 2 may return to the population density of 20 years ago.

The larger challenge, of course, is densifying the lower city as a whole.

Between 1986 and 2001, Wards 1-5 population dipped by 2,986. Between 2001 and 2016, it dropped by another 10,123 residents.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Between Royal Connaught, William Thomas, Kresges towers, Ripple, Acclamation, that’s around 1,800 units. Downtown added 2,000 jobs in the last 6-7 years.

Employment growth has also been a stronger and more reliable growth curve than residential growth.

Between 1986 and 2001, Ward 2's population increased by 2,575. Between 2001 and 2016, Ward 2's population decreased by 1,285. So with all of the above projects coming online, Ward 2 may return to the population density of 20 years ago.

Yeah, exactly. Which is positive in terms of adding these types of retailers to Jackson or elsewhere in the core.

As an individual who lives in the Downtown Core, I can walk to a lot of places for my basic essentials (pharmacy, banking, coffee, etc) However, I think there's a strong need for more pharmacies that are open later and even 24 hours (that are located in the core or a 2-3 min walk from the core) Further, I believe that having more higher end clothing or department stores will go a long way. James N has some nice clothing boutiques for woman, but there really is a lack of other options.

I think with the increases in population as we both alluded to, more retailers will open Downtown.

[thistleclub]

Time will tell.

Cadillac Fairview's decision to sell the 10-year old Eaton Centre at a 95% markdown hangs over a lot of these decisions as well. That was 2000 — the boom period that we're on track to revisit.

[King&James]

JS needs a high density residential component , whether it takes over Copps or what was the Eaton Centre, or both, there needs to be a mindshift to bring new life to this area of downtown. There are still too many holdouts of key parcels in the downtown , assuming looking for massive payouts (the bentall Kennedy transaction didn't help, unless of course they build significant density), think all those parking lots and empty buildings around Gore Park which there is not even a whisper of activity happening (Robinson's, Royal Bank, Zellers, South side of King, and James/King William). If those can actually get underway with residential, the pendulum will swing into a demand side for higher level retail, not just in JS , but all througout downtown.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by King&James

JS needs a high density residential component , whether it takes over Copps or what was the Eaton Centre, or both, there needs to be a mindshift to bring new life to this area of downtown. There are still too many holdouts of key parcels in the downtown , assuming looking for massive payouts (the bentall Kennedy transaction didn't help, unless of course they build significant density), think all those parking lots and empty buildings around Gore Park which there is not even a whisper of activity happening (Robinson's, Royal Bank, Zellers, South side of King, and James/King William). If those can actually get underway with residential, the pendulum will swing into a demand side for higher level retail, not just in JS , but all througout downtown.

Well said. I've had my reservations about a residential development being constructed in this area for a while, but you make great points here and they are hard to argue with.

[TSteph9]

Originally Posted by realcity

the only city that makes sense with height restrictions is DC. Beyond that even Tokyo has done away with height limits.

Gotta agree with you there. I like Hamilton but there's no breathtaking scenery near the waterfront or anything that should warrant a height restriction. If anything, I'd like to see downtown get built up a bit.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by TSteph9

Gotta agree with you there. I like Hamilton but there's no breathtaking scenery near the waterfront or anything that should warrant a height restriction. If anything, I'd like to see downtown get built up a bit.

Further to this point, I think that the view from the escarpment would actually be more appealing to look down at from up on the mountain if the Downtown had taller and nicer looking buildings to look at. It would increase the property values of those who have views of Downtown on the mountain also...