Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0 - Page 545

Badyouken · #**10881** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 2:55 PM**

So, June 30 handover will not happen. No further date. RTG brought in experts from around the world. Manconi does not seem pleased. Councillors are very upset, and asking about a contingency plan for September.

All in all, not a great FEDCO meeting for LRT.

daud · #**10882** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 3:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badyouken

So, June 30 handover will not happen. No further date. RTG brought in experts from around the world. Manconi does not seem pleased. Councillors are very upset, and asking about a contingency plan for September.

All in all, not a great FEDCO meeting for LRT.

Yes, and the problems don't seem trivial. From what I have read, the vehicle brakes and doors are "heavy hitter" problems and then there is a contact issue with the pantograph (train's connection to the overhead wires).

Jon Willing on Twitter also mentioned that RTG has brought in experts from around the world to consult on the problems.

sseguin · #**10883** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 3:08 PM**

The FEDCO meeting presentation is now available on O-Train Fans here:
https://www.otrainfans.ca/blogs/confederation-line-update-fedco-june-4-2019

OCCheetos · #**10884** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 3:18 PM**

Stadler must be eyeing the North American market pretty closely by now. If they keep up their work they're going to end up as the reliable source for trains.

Bombardier
Alstom
Stadler -> new best friend.
Here's hoping we get our FLIRTs on schedule and issue free...

acottawa · #**10885** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 3:55 PM**

Very similar vehicles are in use all over the world. I could understand if the problem was winter-related, but these are pretty basic features that are common to many systems.

lrt's friend · #**10886** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 4:05 PM**

Although not directly related, the fare gates were not working properly for last Saturday's Red Blacks game at Greenboro Station. Everybody had to be manually and remotely issued free OC day passes to get through the gates.

It seems that the Presto system is not flexible enough to deal with special event tickets.

Badyouken · #**10887** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 4:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sseguin

The FEDCO meeting presentation is now available on O-Train Fans here:
https://www.otrainfans.ca/blogs/confederation-line-update-fedco-june-4-2019

Thanks, just went through this.

Not a lot to sink our teeth into. It just seems that they're some ways away from resolving the issues with the vehicles.

OCCheetos · #**10888** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 4:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Although not directly related, the fare gates were not working properly for last Saturday's Red Blacks game at Greenboro Station. Everybody had to be manually and remotely issued free OC day passes to get through the gates.

It seems that the Presto system is not flexible enough to deal with special event tickets.

I thing that's more on OC Transpo or TD Place. They have the alternate QR code system set up, they just need to print them on the tickets.

Gat-Train · #**10889** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 4:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badyouken

So, June 30 handover will not happen. No further date. RTG brought in experts from around the world. Manconi does not seem pleased. Councillors are very upset, and asking about a contingency plan for September.

All in all, not a great FEDCO meeting for LRT.

And go figure that in typical OC Transpo fashion, they update all the service maps long before LRT is running, so we all have to deal with the maps being incorrect for several months. Couldn't they have at least waited until handover to change the maps? Why did they feel the need to update it so damn early???

kmcamp · #**10890** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 5:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

And go figure that in typical OC Transpo fashion, they update all the service maps long before LRT is running, so we all have to deal with the maps being incorrect for several months. Couldn't they have at least waited until handover to change the maps? Why did they feel the need to update it so damn early???

Meanwhile in Sydney, the first week of their metro system has been chaotic at best

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act...s-story/990e7e004ddd91d4d3b1703d943660f8

I'm wondering if we're actually worse off than other systems, or we just decided to front load thing at take the hit before passengers start riding.

rocketphish · #**10891** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 5:39 PM**

LRT delayed again, won't be ready by end of June

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: June 4, 2019

Rideau Transit Group won’t meet an anticipated June 30 handover date for the $2.1-billion LRT system, city staff told council members Tuesday.

City transportation general manager John Manconi told the finance and economic development committee that although RTG was supposed to provide a new handover date by the end of May, the builder has asked for two extra weeks.

RTG previously said it would have the LRT system ready by June 30. Manconi said the builder won’t meet that date.

As of Tuesday, there is no handover date.

Manconi said there are still concerns about the readiness of the LRT vehicles.

The handover date in the contract is May 24, 2018. Missing that deadline, RTG announced Nov. 2, 2018 as the new handover date. Then, missing that, RTG said March 31, 2019 would be the handover date. Of course, the handover didn’t happen by then. RTG told the city it could deliver the rail system by the end of June 2019.

In May, RTG submitted paperwork for a “substantial completion” declaration by an independent certifier. The builder believed the project was done, but the city didn’t agree.

On May 13, an independent certifier ruled that RTG had not achieved substantial completion of the project. The builder had more work to do before reapplying for a substantial completion declaration.

The city is holding back more than $260 million in payments from RTG until the LRT system is finished. Two payments are tied to substantial completion and revenue service availability, $59 million and $202 million, respectively.

More to come.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/lrt-delayed-again-wont-be-ready-by-end-of-june

OTownandDown · #**10892** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 5:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Meanwhile in Sydney, the first week of their metro system has been chaotic at best

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act...s-story/990e7e004ddd91d4d3b1703d943660f8

I'm wondering if we're actually worse off than other systems, or we just decided to front load thing at take the hit before passengers start riding.

LOL, they're WAY worse than Joanne when it comes to drumming up the negative news. A power failure at 5:20am, and a fire alarm at 3:00pm forcing passengers to skip a single station. Big whoop. The heading makes it seem like all hell broke loose. If I was commuting from 8-5pm, I wouldn't have even noticed!

Edit: "A horror day" it certainly was not.

McC · #**10893** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 5:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I'm wondering if we're actually worse off than other systems, or we just decided to front load thing at take the hit before passengers start riding.

The uncertainty and delay is frustrating as all getout, but given the alternative, I am 100% behind the City's refusal to accept handover of the system until it's proven to work.

kmcamp · #**10894** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 6:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

LOL, they're WAY worse than Joanne when it comes to drumming up the negative news. A power failure at 5:20am, and a fire alarm at 3:00pm forcing passengers to skip a single station. Big whoop. The heading makes it seem like all hell broke loose. If I was commuting from 8-5pm, I wouldn't have even noticed!

Edit: "A horror day" it certainly was not.

Not in this article, but another they talked about Sydney's Metros doors getting stuck open or closed (just like us!), which also was a problem with Toronto's TRs when they were first introduced. Why are doors such a problem, has that much changed in train door design over the past 50 years or so? I would think door technology should be pretty much figured out by now

McC · #**10895** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 6:40 PM**

<Extremely narrator voice>
"Since the dawn of time, humankind has struggled with doors..."

AuxTown · #**10896** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 7:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Not in this article, but another they talked about Sydney's Metros doors getting stuck open or closed (just like us!), which also was a problem with Toronto's TRs when they were first introduced. Why are doors such a problem, has that much changed in train door design over the past 50 years or so? I would think door technology should be pretty much figured out by now

Doors are hard! Ever try hanging a door yourself. It looks like a piece of cake but VERY little room for error or your door doesn't open/close properly. I can only imagine designing something on a moving vehicle that has to open and close quickly hundreds of times a day, all the while keeping a good seal to keep the wind/rain/cold out.

roger1818 · #**10897** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 7:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

Very similar vehicles are in use all over the world. I could understand if the problem was winter-related, but these are pretty basic features that are common to many systems.

They might look similar, but as I have said before, they were designed from the ground up using North American gauges of metal and wire. Almost everywhere else in the world they use metric gauges. We might think we are a metric country, but not when it comes to metal parts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

Doors are hard! Ever try hanging a door yourself. It looks like a piece of cake but VERY little room for error or your door doesn't open/close properly. I can only imagine designing something on a moving vehicle that has to open and close quickly hundreds of times a day, all the while keeping a good seal to keep the wind/rain/cold out.

Agreed. Having said that, they should have resolved the issues by now. My guess is someone got their metric and imperial measurements mixed up somewhere along the way (1 mil. = 0.0254 mm FYI).

Kitchissippi · #**10898** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 8:15 PM**

Call me optimistic, but I think they can resolve these issues within a month or six weeks. I predict it opens before September

Truenorth00 · #**10899** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 8:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Call me optimistic, but I think they can resolve these issues within a month or six weeks. I predict it opens before September

I'm with you. But that's still a long time. And I do wonder if some of this RTG cheaping out and then having issues come back to bite them.

kmcamp · #**10900** Posted **Jun 4, 2019, 8:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm with you. But that's still a long time. And I do wonder if some of this RTG cheaping out and then having issues come back to bite them.

I doubt it's the overall RTG in this case, these trains are totally Alstom's responsibility. They wanted to launch a new model to compete in North America. Given bombardier's rather pathetic track record I think we all hoped things would be different here, considering the European spec Lints we have seem to be good trains.

Where it went wrong is that we aren't getting tried and tested European spec trams, but something entirely new that vaguely resembles European trams