Calgary International Airport II

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by Cage

WS badly needs to get into SkyTeam alliance and get a few frequencies handed to them. YYC-AMS on WS handed over from KL. AF 2nd frequency on YYZ-CDG over to WS.

To get into SkyTeam, WS will have to give up their long standing complaint against traditional prorates.

For the non network planning geeks, prorates are used to price out combined itineraries on a single ticket and price. So YVR-YYC on WS combined with the YYC-AMS on KL. Traditionally some form of distance has been used to calculate the revenue split. This heavily punishes the smaller sector. The idea is that equal partners will lose in their shorthaul network equal proportion.

WS enterred into agreements with either a fixed price or floor price scheme. The was because with no international transoceanic network, WS was always on the losing end of the prorates calculation. This is why some traditional European and Asian airlines went back to AC after trying things out with WS.

Really, really interesting insights Cage. Good stuff here — that helps explain a lot about why WestJet is the way they are. Thanks!

What’s your gut feeling in WestJet’s current view on pro-rates?

It seems they absolutely would need to get over this issue if they’re to grow. And since they’re signalling more (compared to the current “zero”!) reciprocal benefits with partner airlines, that would seem to indicate more interlining, more code-sharing, and an impending alliance membership.

[hollywoodcory]

5 international routes resume or start over the next couple of days.

Today (5/30): WK ZRH / TS AMS
Tomorrow (5/31): DE FRA / AM MEX
Saturday (6/1): WS DUB

Also I'm pleasantly surprised to see F9 survive a full year. At least their schedule is now better allowing for connections in DEN that don't require you to overnight.

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Also I'm pleasantly surprised to see F9 survive a full year. At least their schedule is now better allowing for connections in DEN that don't require you to overnight.

Some connections. I still don't get F9's strategy. If I can't reasonably get somewhere in the U.S. transiting DEN in a day, I'm never going to fly them. They should cut the cities they operate in until they can get some decent frequency instead of having shitty frequency and connections for more destinations.

[YYCFlier]

Gotta imagine all the TS service is cut once AC takes it.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

Gotta imagine all the TS service is cut once AC takes it.

Or they consolidate as Rouge. Ugh. Boo Rouge!

In theory, as Air Transat's Airbus A321neoLR come into the fleet, we could see a proliferation of smaller european destinations served in the summer. Even from Calgary you could serve much of the UK (Scotland and Ireland are within the 90% of max range line on the map below, the further line is the max range).

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3596nm%40yyc%0D%0A3996nm%40yyc&MS=wls&DU=mi

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

Gotta imagine all the TS service is cut once AC takes it.

TS has become such a small player in Alberta there’s honestly not much to cut.
3 weekly to LGW and 1 weekly to AMS are the only summer longhauls now. What they do with LGW will be a tough call and no point on hanging onto a weekly AMS flight.
In winter it’s just CUN and PVR now which overlaps with AC.

This assumes the merger occurs.

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

TS has become such a small player in Alberta there’s honestly not much to cut.
3 weekly to LGW and 1 weekly to AMS are the only summer longhauls now. What they do with LGW will be a tough call and no point on hanging onto a weekly AMS flight.
In winter it’s just CUN and PVR now which overlaps with AC.

This assumes the merger occurs.

TS will merge into Rouge, and Rouge does not operate much in the west. I expect AC to abandon these routes to WS and KLM respectively. CUN/PVR might get added frequency but that's it.

Will be much worse in YUL, reducing competition.

[SteveP]

It'll be hardly noticeable.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

TS has become such a small player in Alberta there’s honestly not much to cut.
3 weekly to LGW and 1 weekly to AMS are the only summer longhauls now. What they do with LGW will be a tough call and no point on hanging onto a weekly AMS flight.
In winter it’s just CUN and PVR now which overlaps with AC.

This assumes the merger occurs.

[YYCFlier]

Anyone know how well the WS LGW, CDG and DUB flights are doing? DUB launching today.

[topdog]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

Anyone know how well the WS LGW, CDG and DUB flights are doing? DUB launching today.

According to Acey at Skyrisecities (I think the same Acey at SSP) the CDG route is doing well so far.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

Anyone know how well the WS LGW, CDG and DUB flights are doing? DUB launching today.

About 23 open seats on DUB today, when I last checked. So about 93% full.

[topdog]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

About 23 open seats on DUB today, when I last checked. So about 93% full.

Not bad at all

[hollywoodcory]

AC extended the PHX suspension until August 31.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

AC extended the PHX suspension until August 31.

The PHX suspension is related to the max8 grounding. AC has removed the max 8 through September 2nd. WS has not removed the max8 for August, nor released their list of schedule changes.

I just booked the family vacation in August and chose AC because they offered schedule certainty with respect to flights. This despite the Wife preferring the nonstop where possible (not to PHX but another destination). Ultimately the schedule certainty and specifically not being rescheduled onto a redeye through YUL or YYZ was more important than the nonstop.

Wife and me also had an interesting discussion about comments made by Oscar Munoz, CEO of United. Oscar's comments were that the 737max aircraft may never get back customer confidence. For me I would fly the max on any of AC/WS/UA/AA/WN but i suspect it may be a long time before the wife gets onboard.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by Cage

Wife and me also had an interesting discussion about comments made by Oscar Munoz, CEO of United. Oscar's comments were that the 737max aircraft may never get back customer confidence. For me I would fly the max on any of AC/WS/UA/AA/WN but i suspect it may be a long time before the wife gets onboard.

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.

The 737Max problems, and Boeing’s image problems, are (quite understandably) due to the horrible outcomes in the two accidents. But a very similar issue existed with Airbus A330 aircraft (refer to the QF72 story) ... yet people around the world happily kept on flying on Airbus, and nobody had so much as a second thought about boarding an A330 the day, month, or year after that incident. (It has a very similar flight control issue - where the plane wrestled control away from the pilots - that could easily have had the same consequences as the Max — but, luckily, didn’t.)

If we were all perfectly rational beings, Airbus and the 330 would have suffered the same brand image issues as the Max. Passengers would have feared both the Airbus brand and that specific aircraft. But we’re not perfectly rational. We’re human. That close call was barely a blip in the news, so it didn’t lead to groundings or constant media coverage, nor did it hit mainstream public opinion.

I strongly believe the 737Max will be the absolute safest aircraft on the planet once this is all over. The level of scrutiny that it will have gone through as a result of this will far exceed any other aircraft. There will be no unknown issues, everything will have been tested and retested and reviewed, and pilots will undergo extensive training. I’d fly one without question, and bring my family on board to boot.

But while the technical problem with the aircraft can and will be fixed, fixing the brand problem and the customer fear (rational or not) is going to be a whole lot tougher.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.

The 737Max problems, and Boeing’s image problems, are (quite understandably) due to the horrible outcomes in the two accidents. But a very similar issue existed with Airbus A330 aircraft (refer to the QF72 story) ... yet people around the world happily kept on flying on Airbus, and nobody had so much as a second thought about boarding an A330 the day, month, or year after that incident. (It has a very similar flight control issue - where the plane wrestled control away from the pilots - that could easily have had the same consequences as the Max — but, luckily, didn’t.)

If we were all perfectly rational beings, Airbus and the 330 would have suffered the same brand image issues as the Max. Passengers would have feared both the Airbus brand and that specific aircraft. But we’re not perfectly rational. We’re human. That close call was barely a blip in the news, so it didn’t lead to groundings or constant media coverage, nor did it hit mainstream public opinion.

I strongly believe the 737Max will be the absolute safest aircraft on the planet once this is all over. The level of scrutiny that it will have gone through as a result of this will far exceed any other aircraft. There will be no unknown issues, everything will have been tested and retested and reviewed, and pilots will undergo extensive training. I’d fly one without question, and bring my family on board to boot.

But while the technical problem with the aircraft can and will be fixed, fixing the brand problem and the customer fear (rational or not) is going to be a whole lot tougher.

Having read the article on QF72, I'm inclined to disagree with you. While the broad strokes certainly are similar, Airbus was not negligent with respect to the design of the A330's flight control systems, whereas I'm inclined to believe that Boeing WAS negligent with respect to the design of the MCAS system on the 737 Max. Additionally, the QF72 incident occurred at cruising altitude which gave the pilots far more time to resolve the problem, as opposed to the MCAS-induced problems that occurred on takeoff which gave the pilots of the two doomed planes very little time and altitude to work with.

I think Boeing's image should rightly be tarnished much more by the Max incidents than Airbus's image might have been tarnished by the QF72 incident.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

But a very similar issue existed with Airbus A330 aircraft (refer to the QF72 story) ... yet people around the world happily kept on flying on Airbus, and nobody had so much as a second thought about boarding an A330 the day, month, or year after that incident.

The reason for some of this IMO is we are moving into a paranoia generation in everything we do. In some cases times have changed and we need to adjust to some of these changes. I never grew up with bicycle helmets or being told that i shouldn't go tobogganing because it is dangerous or seeing kids gun down other kids because of bullying. The news also used to be more factual but now mainstream media over hype anything to get a persons attention and people don't actually investigate the so called facts that they are told. I actually find forums like Skyscraper invaluable because there are people with a lot of knowledge that provide information on specific topics with relatively few trolls (not including Amazon reviews).

I'm not trying to downplay the 737Max accidents or some of the stuff above but i would easily fly the plane and i have before it was taken out of service. But with every generation it seems that in some facets of life we are getting stupider. An accident in 2008 does not equate an accident in 2019 unfortunately and a lot of it has to do with perception is reality and it doesn't take much these days to alter someone's perception.

Oh yeah i almost forgot. Look at this article about that women buying fake tickets from China to Canada. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c...k-from-woman-after-ticket-scam-1.5158335
She says that Air Canada is "bullying" her and then Gabor Lukacs backs her up. Here's her comments "I think and feel as if life is no hope. You just stay home. I don't know how to figure it out. And start crying a lot". Give me a break. She says she knew they were employee discount tickets yet she isn't an employee of Air Canada. Welcome to 2019.

[hollywoodcory]

-AA resumes mainline 738 service on DFW (afternoon flight) and twice daily service to ORD tomorrow.
-UA moves to all mainline SFO tomorrow as well (1x 320 and 1x 739)

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

Having read the article on QF72, I'm inclined to disagree with you. While the broad strokes certainly are similar, Airbus was not negligent with respect to the design of the A330's flight control systems, whereas I'm inclined to believe that Boeing WAS negligent with respect to the design of the MCAS system on the 737 Max. Additionally, the QF72 incident occurred at cruising altitude which gave the pilots far more time to resolve the problem, as opposed to the MCAS-induced problems that occurred on takeoff which gave the pilots of the two doomed planes very little time and altitude to work with.

I think Boeing's image should rightly be tarnished much more by the Max incidents than Airbus's image might have been tarnished by the QF72 incident.

Further to all the above, being Canadians I think it is particularly disheartening that Boeing lobbying Trump is what resulted in the tariff against the C-series, allowing Boeing to sell their death 737 Max trap instead of the Canadian designed Bombardier. That episode was specifically the USA targeting Canada so as to push out their own merchandise. Within that context, Canadians support Boeing over Airbus is really sickening. The US in this episode are akin to the incestuous Uncle Sam whose been raping us in our childhood. Time to accept reality and call them out. Nothing to be ashamed of - we have been the victims all along.

[BlaineN]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Further to all the above, being Canadians I think it is particularly disheartening that Boeing lobbying Trump is what resulted in the tariff against the C-series, allowing Boeing to sell their death 737 Max trap instead of the Canadian designed Bombardier. That episode was specifically the USA targeting Canada so as to push out their own merchandise. Within that context, Canadians support Boeing over Airbus is really sickening. The US in this episode are akin to the incestuous Uncle Sam whose been raping us in our childhood. Time to accept reality and call them out. Nothing to be ashamed of - we have been the victims all along.

The U.S. wins either way as the C Series, now branded the Airbus A220 will be built in the U.S.

Anyway, don't get uptight over the politics of it. Europe with it's subsidies and trade related politics is no better than the U.S. when it comes to Canada.