Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

There's an article in the Globe and Mail (for subscribers only) written by Frances Bula about a campaign being headed by former Langley Township mayor Rick Green against the Surrey Skytrain project:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/b...testing-surrey-langley-skytrain-line-as/



I would have to agree that the concept of light rail for the Fraser Valley isn't a smart one because of issues with the layout of the rail network and congestion, unless one spends a lot of money re-configuring the rail network.

I don't know if this is mentioned in the article (hooray paywalls!) but Bill Vander Zalm, Patrick Condon, and the aforementioned Rick Green are holding a few "Skytrain [sic] Lies: Exposed!" sessions in June: https://twitter.com/Steve_Tornes/status/1133906677369954304

[WarrenC12]

Will there be a breakout session on chemtrails?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Will there be a breakout session on chemtrails?

Is that "What Translink staff don't want you to know, see, or hear!"

[Migrant_Coconut]

TransLink planners HATE him!!

Local politician exposes shocking transportation secret. Learn the $1.24 billion trick to his stunning results...

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Is that "What Translink staff don't want you to know, see, or hear!"

You couldn't pay me to attend that! Why do they even bother though why don't just pack up the streetcar carny show and hitch a ride to the next town/city already.

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I don't know if this is mentioned in the article (hooray paywalls!) but Bill Vander Zalm, Patrick Condon, and the aforementioned Rick Green are holding a few "Skytrain [sic] Lies: Exposed!" sessions in June: https://twitter.com/Steve_Tornes/status/1133906677369954304

Yep, Vander Zalm and Patrick Condon are both mentioned.

[Metro-One]

Gee, I wonder if these sessions will contain the same misinformation that they have been spinning for decades?

Look at this, you can built 10000000km of LRT for only the cost of 1km of Skytrain (cherry pics ridership stats and speeds from largely grade separated LRT systems with similar construction costs of Skytrain).

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

TransLink planners HATE him!!

Local politician exposes shocking transportation secret. Learn the $1.24 billion trick to his stunning results...

Is that "What Translink staff don't want you to know, see, or hear!"

And this is why I come back to these forums. I almost want to design those ads just to plaster around the city showcasing the ridiculousness of it all.

Why do they even bother though why don't just pack up the streetcar carny show and hitch a ride to the next town/city already.

To kind of veer back on topic, I will say that streetcar systems may have their time and place. But definitely not on the Fraser Highway or the dreaded "L" line.

Skytrain = Jesus in these lands.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Skytrain...

Streetcars...

Pathetic wastes of public money and bureaucratic excess!

For only $9,465 per km, I could build you a commuter rail system with completely off-the-shelf components!

No disruption to traffic! Incredibly low energy costs! Takes up almost no street space! Likely to be just as effective as a slow train to Chilliwack!

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Look at this, you can built 10000000km of LRT for only the cost of 1km of Skytrain

Lies, damned lies. You know full well that they could build LRT to the Moon and back for less than the cost of one painted yellow line for the Skytrain system.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Just going to point out that a poll several years before it suggested that the majority of Surrey "preferred" LRT. So either somebody's numbers are off, or SoF residents don't care what it is so long as they get a train.

There were 2 problems with that poll. First, the questions were terrible. It was pretty much a do you support LRT or the status quo type of Survey. And many of the questions were somewhat leading. Like "would LRT between City Center and Newton help connect the 2 communities?" Well, by definition, yes.

The second was that the survey wasn't conducted too long after that disastrous week in 2014 with 2 system wide outages and some other mess ups. The public opinion for Skytrain was at an all time low. So any kind of survey offering something different would have appealed to a decent number of people.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I don't know if this is mentioned in the article (hooray paywalls!) but Bill Vander Zalm, Patrick Condon, and the aforementioned Rick Green are holding a few "Skytrain [sic] Lies: Exposed!" sessions in June: https://twitter.com/Steve_Tornes/status/1133906677369954304

The problem with these guys is that they each have different problems that all culminate into one giant wrong idea.

Rick Green's problem is he just wants to get elected and is looking for some kind of tentpole idea. Patrick Condon's problem is he's against encouraging long distance movement. Bill Vander Zalm's problem is he's a media whore who craves attention and seeks it out by catering to the lowest common denominator among the populace, the pocketbook, and will hitch his horse to any wagon that is promoting the cheaper alternative to taxpayers.

And somehow, this Venn Diagram of overlapping bad opinions and goals overlaps at the center and aligns with supporting Chilliwack Tram-Train.

The only reason this overlaps with the Tram-Train idea is because the most vocal proponents of it have gotten it in their heads that the one and only hurdle in the way of achieving a light rail line to Chilliwack is Skytrain.

"If only Skytrain projects weren't happening," Zwise says to himself, "then obviously my idea would take precedent."

And I don't think that's the case. BC is fairly financially prudent. We don't look have x amount of dollars to spend so go looking for a project that costs x dollars. We have projects we rank by benefit and find the budget for them.

If Tram-Train to Chilliwack made financial sense (the benefit to the community offset the obvious subsidy that would be needed), then it would for sure be in the pipeline of projects. I don't think it's a situation where because we build Skytrain, we can never build anything else.

Skytrain is not standing in the way of this Tram-Train. If anything Skytrain to Langley would actually make the Tram-Train more viable in the future. It would connect riders from the Township and beyond to rapid transit in Langley that would connect them to corridor of high employment along the Fraser Highway.

But forgoing Skytrain to benefit rural communities makes no sense. Skytrain will benefit thousands of riders who already take transit, thousands more who want to take transit but it's too slow, and encourage the city to grow in a way that will result in even more thousands to move to the area so they can take transit.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

The problem with these guys is that they each have different problems that all culminate into one giant wrong idea.

Rick Green's problem is he just wants to get elected and is looking for some kind of tentpole idea. Patrick Condon's problem is he's against encouraging long distance movement. Bill Vander Zalm's problem is he's a media whore who craves attention and seeks it out by catering to the lowest common denominator among the populace, the pocketbook, and will hitch his horse to any wagon that is promoting the cheaper alternative to taxpayers.

And somehow, this Venn Diagram of overlapping bad opinions and goals overlaps at the center and aligns with supporting Chilliwack Tram-Train.

The only reason this overlaps with the Tram-Train idea is because the most vocal proponents of it have gotten it in their heads that the one and only hurdle in the way of achieving a light rail line to Chilliwack is Skytrain.

"If only Skytrain projects weren't happening," Zwise says to himself, "then obviously my idea would take precedent."

And I don't think that's the case. BC is fairly financially prudent. We don't look have x amount of dollars to spend so go looking for a project that costs x dollars. We have projects we rank by benefit and find the budget for them.

If Tram-Train to Chilliwack made financial sense (the benefit to the community offset the obvious subsidy that would be needed), then it would for sure be in the pipeline of projects. I don't think it's a situation where because we build Skytrain, we can never build anything else.

Skytrain is not standing in the way of this Tram-Train. If anything Skytrain to Langley would actually make the Tram-Train more viable in the future. It would connect riders from the Township and beyond to rapid transit in Langley that would connect them to corridor of high employment along the Fraser Highway.

But forgoing Skytrain to benefit rural communities makes no sense. Skytrain will benefit thousands of riders who already take transit, thousands more who want to take transit but it's too slow, and encourage the city to grow in a way that will result in even more thousands to move to the area so they can take transit.

All you need to do is look at where the old interurban line actually goes and then do a population analysis of who lives within a certain distance from the line. A second dedicated track would have to be installed from Cloverdale to the CN Hydro cutoff because getting access to that busy CP section would be very difficult. Coal and inter-modal dominate that line. At this point it makes no sense at all to even explore it.

[SFUVancouver]

LRT on the Interurban railway is unfeasible, not a SkyTrain alternative: TransLink
Kenneth Chan Jun 13, 2019

TransLink planners have a released a new report that counters growing calls from a new advocacy group to revive the old Interurban streetcar railway with a new passenger railway service — an option the group has deemed as an alternative to the Fraser Highway SkyTrain extension from King George Station to Langley Centre.

The South Fraser Community Rail group, led by former BC premier Bill Vander Zalm, UBC professor Patrick Condon, and former Langley Township mayor Rick Green, unveiled their idea earlier this year of using the 99-km-long existing railway between Surrey, Langley, Abbotsford, and Chilliwack for a new passenger hydrogen fuel cell-powered LRT service with 12 stops, with trains achieving an estimated end-to-end travel time of 90 minutes.

[...]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/interurb...ity-rail-translink-feasibility-june-2019

Translink to Rail for the Valley: "Thank you for sharing your idea. No. It is dumb and expensive. We will reconsider it in the future if anything changes."

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/interurb...ity-rail-translink-feasibility-june-2019

Translink to Rail for the Valley: "Thank you for sharing your idea. No. It is dumb and expensive. We will reconsider it in the future if anything changes."

It's a pretty thorough takedown of all the reasons why it's dumb and expensive.

[logan5]

I hope they didn't spend too much money studying this idea. About 30 seconds on Google Earth and you can see that this is a dumb idea. It would probly be way cheaper to lay down new track along TCH, which is a straight line (the shortest distance between 2 points, uh duh), instead of a route that goes all over tarnation.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It's a pretty thorough takedown of all the reasons why it's dumb and expensive.

GlobalBC news is going to cover this dumb idea again at 11pm.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by logan5

I hope they didn't spend too much money studying this idea. About 30 seconds on Google Earth and you can see that this is a dumb idea. It would probly be way cheaper to lay down new track along TCH, which is a straight line (the shortest distance between 2 points, uh duh), instead of a route that goes all over tarnation.

Youtube has a video of the old interurban going from Vancouver all the way to the Chilliwack turn around loop or parts of much of it anyway. Not much has changed over the years along that route either.

All the track is slow speed jointed track and would have to be upgraded and replaced as well as crossings with bells and gates. Also, what kind of a schedule could you maintain?

Maybe as a novelty tourist train but not a serious people mover.

The valley guys promoting this are nuts..

[nname]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Maybe as a novelty tourist train but not a serious people mover.

The valley guys promoting this are nuts..

The old schedule shows the line takes 3-4 hours end-to-end. Even if I'm a tourist, if they stuck me in a train for 4 hours, I'd better end up in at least Kamloops...

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by nname

The old schedule shows the line takes 3-4 hours end-to-end. Even if I'm a tourist, if they stuck me in a train for 4 hours, I'd better end up in at least Kamloops...

If I'm a tourist and they stuck me in a train for 4 hours, I'd better get free drinks and end up pretty drunk.