[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by benvui

I know 1111 Main has a sign out front with there space to lease advertising it as a good place for a cafe/restaurant with place for sidewalk seating. Personally I'd like to see that old Tim's location torn down and something more substantial take it's place. It seems oddly out of place there.

It's a prime location right across from the center. The question I would have is is the lot big enough to build something more substantial? I guess you could always build up. One story does seem out of place right on Main Street in such a prominent location.

[Taeolas]

Eyeballing it on Google Earth, it looks like the lot should be able to hold a building similar to 1111 Main right next to it.

Were I a developer, I'd probably want to snag both lots and probably look at an 6-8 story project on the pair. (similar in size to what is next to them already)

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Eyeballing it on Google Earth, it looks like the lot should be able to hold a building similar to 1111 Main right next to it.

Were I a developer, I'd probably want to snag both lots and probably look at an 6-8 story project on the pair. (similar in size to what is next to them already)

You mean combine 1111 Main and this lot? That would open up the space for development of something substantial for sure. I've noticed that there are a lot of developments (not just in Moncton) that mix condos, apartments, and retail. Anything with residential in this area of town would no doubt be fully occupied quickly.

[Taeolas]

Exactly. Just by eyeballing you can probably fit something similar to 1111 Main on the corner lot, but it would be a bit skewed and probably a little smaller in the end.

If you combined 1111 Main and the corner, you could get a bigger development along Main street itself, be able to present a more unified street face and could probably go up to 8 stories without being out of scale. (the government building next door goes up to 6, so that would limit the overall height a bit I suspect)

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Exactly. Just by eyeballing you can probably fit something similar to 1111 Main on the corner lot, but it would be a bit skewed and probably a little smaller in the end.

If you combined 1111 Main and the corner, you could get a bigger development along Main street itself, be able to present a more unified street face and could probably go up to 8 stories without being out of scale. (the government building next door goes up to 6, so that would limit the overall height a bit I suspect)

Killam properties owns the 1111 building and their web site shows them doing several new residential developments. I don't know if combining these lots and doing a new development is on their radar, but they are capable of creating some very impressive buildings. No doubt an 8 story project here would be very popular.

https://killamreit.com/new-developments

[MonctonRad]

1111 Main was renovated and converted into an apartment building not too too long ago (maybe 10-12 years). I doubt they would consider tearing it down just yet.

I agree that that former Timmies next door looks out of place and could be redeveloped at some point. There are no plans AFAIK.

The properties down there that desperately need redevelopment and/or renovation are 1222 Main and the old telegraph building between 1222 Main and the Avenir Centre. That part of Main Street is frankly an embarrassment, especially with a tremendous facility like the Avenir Centre next door.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

1111 Main was renovated and converted into an apartment building not too too long ago (maybe 10-12 years). I doubt they would consider tearing it down just yet.

I agree that that former Timmies next door looks out of place and could be redeveloped at some point. There are no plans AFAIK.

The properties down there that desperately need redevelopment and/or renovation are 1222 Main and the old telegraph building between 1222 Main and the Avenir Centre. That part of Main Street is frankly an embarrassment, especially with a tremendous facility like the Avenir Centre next door.

Agree 100%. Such potential with 1222 Main Street. Owned by Crombie REIT who own multiple commercial buildings across Canada. It would be nice to see something creative done with this building.
The old telegraph building needs to come down. The issue is the Allstream equipment that is in the building. I was told that the plan was to move this operation to the ground floor of 1234 Main (currently vacant I believe) This would allow the whole of this prime piece of land to be developed once the old building is gone.

[Feneant]

I can't help but think that Tim's has to regret ever closing that location. Between 1234 being renovated, 1081 Main, 33 Weldon, the Avenir Center, bus stop, 2 new hotels and Junction Place it could easily be one of the busier locations in Moncton. The only problem was always parking and the lack of a drive-thru but most of us who work in the area would just walk there anyways.

Now that Merle Norman's has left (they've moved to Mountain Rd. haven't they?) Tim's should buy out UPS and either renovate or build a new location in there.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Feneant

Now that Merle Norman's has left (they've moved to Mountain Rd. haven't they?) Tim's should buy out UPS and either renovate or build a new location in there.

There's apparently a café of some kind moving into the old Merle Norman location.

And you're right, Merle Norman moved to Hildegarde Plaza on Mountain Road

[jonny golden]

Re 1222 Main. I noticed on the Crombie site that they are involved in several joint venture developments where the project is mixed use including residential. A residential component included in the re-development of 1222 Main Street would be really interesting. With that location, one would think that there would be a strong demand. Here's an example of what they are capable of:
https://www.crombie.ca/development/1641-davie-street

[teebs]

Originally Posted by lirette

My understanding from Retail Talk & Share is that theres a cafe going in across from Avenir Centre in the small building that houses the UPS Store. Has anything been posted about it here?

The gossip I heard is licensed pizza place - which should capture the Avenir pre-game crowd a hell of a lot better than a make up store.

[L'homard]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It may not be a real problem (especially if you know the downtown, and know where to park), but it is a perceived problem, which is just as bad, if not worse. It is the perception of lack of parking, fear of being towed, and residual fear of the now extinct booters which is keeping people away from the downtown (as well as increased vagrancy, aggressive panhandlers, streetwalkers, etc etc etc).

Exactly! There is a PERCEIVED parking problem. I've said this for decades. High paid consultants have said this for decades. You are the first regular citizen I've ever heard who agrees with this. LOL Well, other than me.
People walk from Champlain Place to Bass Pro then back to Champlain to hook back up with their wives and kids and think nothing of it. They walk from near the city public works building to the Coliseum doors and don't blink an eye. But they can't see the Avenir Centre door from their parking spot at Clarke Street @ Bonnacord, and their whole world collapses. I just can't wrap by head around it. And it's free parking! Oh well.
I realize that for most people perception is reality. Maybe the city stopped battling the perception too soon. They made quite an effort to dispel this parking nonsense before the centre opened, then stopped once it opened. Maybe it's time to offer potential Avenir Centre goers a reminder that there's plenty of parking.

[Monctoncore]

Originally Posted by L'homard

Exactly! There is a PERCEIVED parking problem. I've said this for decades. High paid consultants have said this for decades. You are the first regular citizen I've ever heard who agrees with this. LOL Well, other than me.
People walk from Champlain Place to Bass Pro then back to Champlain to hook back up with their wives and kids and think nothing of it. They walk from near the city public works building to the Coliseum doors and don't blink an eye. But they can't see the Avenir Centre door from their parking spot at Clarke Street @ Bonnacord, and their whole world collapses. I just can't wrap by head around it. And it's free parking! Oh well.
I realize that for most people perception is reality. Maybe the city stopped battling the perception too soon. They made quite an effort to dispel this parking nonsense before the centre opened, then stopped once it opened. Maybe it's time to offer potential Avenir Centre goers a reminder that there's plenty of parking.

The problem here is that, this has nothing to do with the event center people, this is all to do with Slate and the city council turning down their proposed parking lot on record street, to be used as extra parking for their blue cross building.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

The problem here is that, this has nothing to do with the event center people, this is all to do with Slate and the city council turning down their proposed parking lot on record street, to be used as extra parking for their blue cross building.

I agree that we are talking about two different parking issues at the same time, and we should remember this, and not confuse the two.

1) - Parking problems around the Avenir Centre were definitely overstated, and in retrospect, most of the time, parking is a non issue. The perception of parking problems in the core however may still be keeping some people away. This should not be underestimated as a concern.
2) - The primary parking issue that has preoccupied us over the last several pages concerns the shortage of parking for employees and clients in the Blue Cross Centre. This is entirely separate, and the solution will require a new enclosed parking structure.

By building new enclosed parking structures (which are also publicly available), the city (and Slate) will effectively be killing two birds with one stone. They will solve the parking issues for Blue Cross employees, and at the same time may also help to allay the perception that some people have that there are no safe places in the core to park.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree that we are talking about two different parking issues at the same time, and we should remember this, and not confuse the two.

1) - Parking problems around the Avenir Centre were definitely overstated, and in retrospect, most of the time, parking is a non issue. The perception of parking problems in the core however may still be keeping some people away. This should not be underestimated as a concern.
2) - The primary parking issue that has preoccupied us over the last several pages concerns the shortage of parking for employees and clients in the Blue Cross Centre. This is entirely separate, and the solution will require a new enclosed parking structure.

By building new enclosed parking structures (which are also publicly available), the city (and Slate) will effectively be killing two birds with one stone. They will solve the parking issues for Blue Cross employees, and at the same time may also help to allay the perception that some people have that there are no safe places in the core to park.

It will be very interesting to see what Slate does about their parking issues. They'll have to come up with a solution that involves a multi level structure of some kind. I like the idea of developing their land just south of the Mariott Hotel. This is a prime piece of land right in the heard of down town, currently being used as surface parking. They could develop this lot into something significant.

[tmacdougall]

It's been at least two years since I spoke with this developer but what he said is that a parking garage will NOT be built until the owner can charge $160 per spot per month.

I would be interested to hear if this has changed AND what the current charge is for employees in the downtown core.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by tmacdougall

It's been at least two years since I spoke with this developer but what he said is that a parking garage will NOT be built until the owner can charge $160 per spot per month.

I would be interested to hear if this has changed AND what the current charge is for employees in the downtown core.

The Alma Street garage has 225 spaces. Fully rented would bring $36,000 monthly. It seems to me that a large parking garage could be a very profitable business. Especially since the overhead is minimal compared to other types of businesses. The question is, why hasn't anybody done it?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by tmacdougall

It's been at least two years since I spoke with this developer but what he said is that a parking garage will NOT be built until the owner can charge $160 per spot per month.

I would be interested to hear if this has changed AND what the current charge is for employees in the downtown core.

If employees in the Blue Cross building have no other choice for leasable parking, then I am sure they would pay $160/mo for the convenience of taking their car to work. It is a cost of doing business.

If Slate is concerned, all they have to do is poll the people on the parking waiting list to see if they would be willing to pay this.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

The Alma Street garage has 225 spaces. Fully rented would bring $36,000 monthly. It seems to me that a large parking garage could be a very profitable business. Especially since the overhead is minimal compared to other types of businesses. The question is, why hasn't anybody done it?

No one has done it because it isn't profitable.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

1) - Parking problems around the Avenir Centre were definitely overstated, and in retrospect, most of the time, parking is a non issue.

Weren't you the one most adamant that there would be parking problems?