DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

That's quite the specimen.

In theory, Giellis should win, no?
Hmm, theories don't vote.

Sachs/Denverite has a good piece about the Mayoral runoff election.

The one thing so hard to predict is how many voters will bother to vote a 2nd time, especially those who voted for Lisa Calderón or Penfield Tate? It's possible though that more voters turnout the 2nd time around which means many who didn't bother the 1st time may feel the urge this time. I feel good about Hancock's chances due partly because his votes should come from all over the city.

How would slowing growth in Denver help with affordable housing? Has she taken Econ 101?

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

How would slowing growth in Denver help with affordable housing? Has she taken Econ 101?

Giellis is such a classic NIMBY — relative recent transplant to Denver who has been at the absolute forefront of pushing gentrification in Curtis Park....and yet decries all the change (that she is responsible for bringing) and reminisces on the ‘old denver’ (that she doesn’t know because she moved here along with the rest of the gentrifying class).

It just a shame Hancock is awful too.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

The missing middle does not override supply and demand. As long as demand keeps outstripping supply, all new market housing will be expensive. That's not developers' fault.

The solution to expensive housing is not a handful of missing middle units here and there. It's so many of them all over everywhere that the supply/demand balance is completely rewritten. These things work in concert, along with some other things we haven't talked a lot about like how the safety net actually fits in.

But pointing to expensive townhouses amid a deep undersupply problem as proof that the missing middle is wrong is obtuse.

Was I being a little (tongue-in-cheek) snarky? Yes, yes I was.

I actually like Ken's idea for say 4-6 units that would be an inside hallway style or at least finished across the front. Outside 3-story walk-ups don't have much appeal for me. For sites that might be conducive for 3-story walk-ups, why not just go 5 stories?

The problem is that nobody has a magic wand so we're left to theorize what could be if... I thought maybe West Wash Park might have potential and it may but there's a couple of problems.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...nhomes.html?iana=hpmvp_den_news_headline

Considerable planning went into the design of the project so that it blends in nicely with the surrounding neighborhood, Plank said. “The brownstone design that we went with feels much more sympathetic to the neighborhood’s traditions,” she said.

It’s something that the West Washington Park Neighborhood Association keeps a close eye on. “We try to fight [development] as much as possible, but this project looks to be something that will blend in with the neighborhood,” said Jennifer Thijs, a board member of the neighborhood association. “We want smart development that preserves the front porch ambiance of the area.”

Denver's mayoral election looks to be a tight horse race. Jamie Geillis wants to give more power to the neighborhoods with respect to zoning decisions.

If, for example, West Wash Park is even more desirable than I was guessing it's hard to move the needle in the needed direction. Builders will build for more expensive units if the the demand is there, partly because it would be less controversial.

It's so many of them all over everywhere that the supply/demand balance is completely rewritten.

Even if I were in enthusiastic agreement, I'm not the problem. The problem is that "life happens while you're making other plans."

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Was I being a little (tongue-in-cheek) snarky? Yes, yes I was.

I actually like Ken's idea for say 4-6 units that would be an inside hallway style or at least finished across the front. Outside 3-story walk-ups don't have much appeal for me. For sites that might be conducive for 3-story walk-ups, why not just go 5 stories?

The problem is that nobody has a magic wand so we're left to theorize what could be if... I thought maybe West Wash Park might have potential and it may but there's a couple of problems.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...nhomes.html?iana=hpmvp_den_news_headline
...Even if I were in enthusiastic agreement, I'm not the problem. The problem is that "life happens while you're making other plans."

"Life happens while you're making other plans" happens to reactionary individuals, who are not diligent and insightful enough to make sound plans and then implement them successfully. Proactive individuals who develop insightful plans and then implement them diligently in the present, are the people and organizations who have the most success in life.

Are you reactionary or proactive?

[SirLucasTheGreat]

https://crej.com/news/how-multifamily-models-are-evolving/

I thought this was a very interesting article from the Colorado Real Estate Journal regarding how multifamily development is changing. It seems that micro-apartments (RiDE in RiNo) and co-living (x-Denver) are the new frontiers in the private sector that might alleviate our affordability crisis. Which pathway, between micro-units and co-living, do you all think will be more popular in our market?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

https://crej.com/news/how-multifamily-models-are-evolving/

I thought this was a very interesting article from the Colorado Real Estate Journal regarding how multifamily development is changing. It seems that micro-apartments (RiDE in RiNo) and co-living (x-Denver) are the new frontiers in the private sector that might alleviate our affordability crisis. Which pathway, between micro-units and co-living, do you all think will be more popular in our market?

Good find; definitely interesting how it provides an overall picture.


Cutting Edge Re-purposing and Redevelopment

Developer looking to re-purpose a dying shopping center with nice large floor plates and high ceilings of course. Thinking of “state-of-the-art creative office space.” Developer sticks finger in the air. Bada Bing Bada Boom https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2019/04/30/the-new-mall-tenant-is-your-office.html

Westside Pavilion, a dying mall in Los Angeles, ticked all of the boxes for Hudson Pacific Properties. “The stars kind of aligned,” said Alexander Vouvalides, the developer’s chief investment officer. The 584,000-square-foot Google complex, to be called One Westside, is projected to be finished in 2022 at a cost of up to $410 million.

[UrbanT]

According to this article, Zocalo has broken ground on the 13 story apartment building at 35th & Walnut. https://milehighcre.com/zocalo-to-deliver-in-demand-high-design-smaller-units-to-rino/

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by UrbanT

According to this article, Zocalo has broken ground on the 13 story apartment building at 35th & Walnut. https://milehighcre.com/zocalo-to-deliver-in-demand-high-design-smaller-units-to-rino/

Yes, I was by there about a month ago and took photos of the construction.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by UrbanT

According to this article, Zocalo has broken ground on the 13 story apartment building at 35th & Walnut. https://milehighcre.com/zocalo-to-deliver-in-demand-high-design-smaller-units-to-rino/

Nice find... Ironically, this project popped into my head when RDS70 showed us McWhinney's 38th and Blake project.


Courtesy of Craine Architecture via BusinessDen

[BG918]

Both projects look very similar. Where exactly is the McWhinney project going, where the Tiny Home village used to be at 37th & Blake?

Is the Zocalo project on Walnut between 35th & 36th? I believe the other side of that block fronting Blake will be the Hines T3 office building.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

Giellis is such a classic NIMBY — relative recent transplant to Denver who has been at the absolute forefront of pushing gentrification in Curtis Park....and yet decries all the change (that she is responsible for bringing) and reminisces on the ‘old denver’ (that she doesn’t know because she moved here along with the rest of the gentrifying class).

It just a shame Hancock is awful too.

Yeah, well... I can't vote for her. I don't want Denver to become a big Boulder. Hancock has his issues, but we can survive another term.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Yeah, well... I can't vote for her. I don't want Denver to become a big Boulder. Hancock has his issues, but we can survive another term.

Unfortunately I don't think you can stop that from happening, regardless of who is in the mayor's office.

[The Dirt]

Yeah, great advice. Let's just give up trying because we're going to lose anyway.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

My favorite is Bonnie Brae Flowers.

That made me laugh!

But I just remembered that I forgot that I wanted (say that twice) to ask if there's much 'scraping' and redevelopment happening in Bonnie Brae neighborhood?

[rds70]

Updated rendering of the hotel planned at 1632 Blake Street - 8 stories, 190 rooms:

[Meliorem]

A couple of key figures from Downtown Denver Partnership's 2019 State of Downtown Denver.

Downtown Denver
25,727 (up nearly 3,000 (!) in just one year)
2.58 sq mi / 6.69 km² (own calculation based on the outline below)

Center City
88,670
8.51 sq mi / 22.04 km² (own calculation based on the outline below)

To my knowledge, this puts Denver at the very top when compared to other inland cities without large body of waters (that aren't a part of a larger metro). Even more impressive, it wins out against many coastal cities in both density and immediate downtown population.




Link to pdf:
https://www.downtowndenver.com/wp-content/uploads/2019-State-of-Downtown-Denver.pdf

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Meliorem

A couple of key figures from Downtown Denver Partnership's 2019 State of Downtown Denver.

Downtown Denver
25,727 (up nearly 3,000 (!) in just one year)
2.58 sq mi / 6.69 km² (own calculation based on the outline below)

Center City
88,670
8.51 sq mi / 22.04 km² (own calculation based on the outline below)

To my knowledge, this puts Denver at the very top when compared to other inland cities without large body of waters (that aren't a part of a larger metro). Even more impressive, it wins out against many coastal cities in both density and immediate downtown population.

So Denver has now out-grown Des Moines IA?

I kid, but I'm trying to figure out what is left. For example, Tempe has a lot of people when you consider 55,000 ASU students plus normal people but then Tempe is part of a larger metro area so that doesn't count? There's 18 MSA's that are larger than metro Denver so that's the starting point for comparison, I guess. Then eliminate large bodies of water places.

I will say that over 88,000 people in the City Center is quite impressive.

[jbssfelix]

Originally Posted by Meliorem

A couple of key figures from Downtown Denver Partnership's 2019 State of Downtown Denver.

Downtown Denver
25,727 (up nearly 3,000 (!) in just one year)
2.58 sq mi / 6.69 km² (own calculation based on the outline below)

Center City
88,670
8.51 sq mi / 22.04 km² (own calculation based on the outline below)

"Downtown Denver has added almost 20,000 residents in less than 20 years, with today’s population at 25,727."

So, downtown Denver only had ~5,000 people 20 years ago? Yikes.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by jbssfelix

"Downtown Denver has added almost 20,000 residents in less than 20 years, with today’s population at 25,727."

So, downtown Denver only had ~5,000 people 20 years ago? Yikes.

In 1999, the Central Platte Valley/Union Station area was entirely rail yards; LoDo had residential but it was almost entirely lofts in historic buildings so the total number of units wasn't that huge; Arapahoe Square and Uptown and Golden Triangle were dominated by parking lots and lower-scale commercial uses with just a bit of residential here and there; Prospect/Union Station North was all commercial/industrial; and Central/Upper Downtown was dominated by office and hotel towers. So yeah.

[Meliorem]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

So Denver has now out-grown Des Moines IA?

I kid, but I'm trying to figure out what is left. For example, Tempe has a lot of people when you consider 55,000 ASU students plus normal people but then Tempe is part of a larger metro area so that doesn't count? There's 18 MSA's that are larger than metro Denver so that's the starting point for comparison, I guess. Then eliminate large bodies of water places.

I will say that over 88,000 people in the City Center is quite impressive.

As long as the city in question has a downtown and functions as such, it doesn't really matter whether or not it's considered a satellite/edge city in a larger administrative area. I had to be very specific with the phrasing because I haven't had the time to do the math on the inland cities of Los Angeles (CSA) and then there's Chicago (Great Lakes).