Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[613Steve]

Saw a couple singles along with a double on the way in this morning. I'm wondering if some of the trains with minor issues are being worked on.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by corynv

Where did you hear that? I've heard 15 trains max (at the start of the line at least with the 4 we got before stage 2, and the rest coming with stage 2 that'll change). And we physically cannot do 18 sets, as we have only 34 LRVs, for a total of 17 sets. And the city wants there to be spars available as well.

A while ago we had a discussion about this. In order to meet the expected demand without total crush loading, there needs to 18 trains per hour. This can be accomplished with round trips of significantly less than 1 hour. This will allow 15 trains to deliver 18 trips per hour.

18 trips with 15 trains require a 50 minute round trip. The expected time from end to end of the line is 25 minutes. There was some speculation that drivers would flip between trains so that a train would not have to wait for the driver to walk to the other end of the train.

[Truenorth00]

The city is calling it the "O-Train" and referring to the entire train network. So that's what will stick over time. Given the subway stops, I suspect out-of-towners will call it the train, the subway or the metro.

I just hope we stop calling it "LRT". It's a light metro system. It's not close to the images of trams running on roads that the term "LRT" implies.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The city is calling it the "O-Train" and referring to the entire train network. So that's what will stick over time. Given the subway stops, I suspect out-of-towners will call it the train, the subway or the metro.

I just hope we stop calling it "LRT". It's a light metro system. It's not close to the images of trams running on roads that the term "LRT" implies.

History suggests this will happen. When the Trillum line started it was always referred to as light rail, even though it too isn't LRT in the traditional sense. It's now universally referred to in English as the "O Train" (hey francophones, what do you call it?)

[J.OT13]

I'm Francaphone from Ottawa, and I call it the Oh-Train (English pronunciation), no matter the language I speak, and never Au-Train (French pronauciation). I sometimes use Métro/Metro or Subway for the Downtown and St-Laurent portion. I try to avoid LRT or Light-Rail. French media calls it "le train-léger".

On an unrelated note, Tweets from Jon Willing today:

"Council will be updated later today on the decision by the independent certifier re. LRT construction "substantial completion."

https://twitter.com/JonathanWilling/status/1128663310088511488

"The city met with RTG yesterday at city hall. Manconi said the two "are aligned on the path forward," but the details will come to council (and the press) later."

https://twitter.com/JonathanWilling/status/1128664018862972928

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

"Council will be updated later today on the decision by the independent certifier re. LRT construction "substantial completion."

I honestly don't think the decision will make much difference in the timeline to RSA date; the only difference it makes is whether RTG gets their $59M substantial completion milestone payment now or later.

If the trains have bugs, those will need to be fixed before a 12-day trial can be successful. Fixing those bugs is the critical path.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I honestly don't think the decision will make much difference in the timeline to RSA date; the only difference it makes is whether RTG gets their $59M substantial completion milestone payment now or later.

If the trains have bugs, those will need to be fixed before a 12-day trial can be successful. Fixing those bugs is the critical path.

You're right. RTG probably submitted the substantial completion forms in the hopes of getting their $59 million, the first payment in quite a while. They will then take whatever time they need to fix the train issues.

[rocketphish]

Council to learn 'substantial completion' decision Wednesday

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: May 15, 2019

Council will be learning Wednesday how an independent certifier viewed the Rideau Transit Group’s request for “substantial completion” on the $2.1-billion Confederation Line LRT project.

Transportation general manager John Manconi said city lawyers and technical experts have been going over the certifier’s review.

“It’s a complicated process. We need to take our time. This is serious stuff,” Manconi said after a transit commission meeting Wednesday.

City and RTG officials met Tuesday afternoon at city hall.

“We’re aligned on the path forward,” Manconi said, but the city is waiting to update council in a memo before going public with what the certifier determined.

RTG submitted paperwork to the project’s independent certifier to decide if the project has reached substantial completion. The certifier had until late Monday afternoon to make a determination.

A substantially complete project would mean the LRT system is virtually ready for use. The declaration would allow RTG to begin the mandatory 12 days of full-system testing mimicking regular transit service. If, at the end of the 12 days, there were no major problems, the LRT system could be handed over to the city.

If the system isn’t substantially complete, RTG would have to provide a plan that addresses the unfinished work before applying again for a substantial completion designation, triggering another review by the certifier.

The city and RTG equally pay for the certifier. The independent certification services are provided by Altus Group.

The city has been largely concerned about the readiness of the Alstom Citadis Spirit trains. The problems, such as door jams and computer bugs, have been characterized as very fixable. Mayor Jim Watson has called the head of Alstom to emphasize to the French company the importance of getting the train work done.

There are 34 single vehicles in the Stage 1 fleet. Fifteen trains, each with two connected vehicles, will run during the peak service hours.

The 12.5-kilometre Confederation Line will run between Tunney’s Pasture and Blair Station via a downtown tunnel. All three levels of government are paying for the project, with city taxpayers paying the most.

The original revenue service availability date — in other words, the handover date to the city — was May 24, 2018. The project contract says the city has the right to terminate the agreement if completion is 365 days after the revenue service availability date.

After missing the May 2018 handover deadline, RTG proposed handover dates for Nov. 2, 2018, and March 31, 2019. The company missed both those handovers, too.

RTG has told they city that it can deliver the LRT system by the end of June.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ubstantial-completion-decision-wednesday

[CityTech]

If the trains are certified for operation (which we know they all are), it's hard to argue they aren't "substantially complete".

[sseguin]

Just received by the City media relations email the MEMO on the Certifier's decision. Check it out here:

https://www.otrainfans.ca/blogs/memo-confederation-line-substantial-completion

"The City has been reviewing the IC’s determination and assessing the impacts of the determination on the overall program. Broadly, the IC agrees with the City’s opinion that RTG has not achieved Substantial Completion and agrees that additional work is required. Despite this assessment, it is important to note that RTG has been continuing work on all areas in an effort toclose out issues throughout the Confederation Line system."

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by sseguin

Just received by the City media relations email the MEMO on the Certifier's decision. Check it out here:

https://www.otrainfans.ca/blogs/memo-confederation-line-substantial-completion

"The City has been reviewing the IC’s determination and assessing the impacts of the determination on the overall program. Broadly, the IC agrees with the City’s opinion that RTG has not achieved Substantial Completion and agrees that additional work is required. Despite this assessment, it is important to note that RTG has been continuing work on all areas in an effort toclose out issues throughout the Confederation Line system."

Weird that the memo indicates that a meeting between the City and RTG will be scheduled, but the Citizen article indicates that it already happened yesterday.

[CityTech]

Memo might be a couple days old.

They have five days to provide a new substantial completion date, that would be by Saturday, or Tuesday if only business days count (this coming Monday being a holiday).

[Prometheus188]

Originally Posted by corynv

Where did you hear that? I've heard 15 trains max (at the start of the line at least with the 4 we got before stage 2, and the rest coming with stage 2 that'll change). And we physically cannot do 18 sets, as we have only 34 LRVs, for a total of 17 sets. And the city wants there to be spars available as well.

It was an article I read months ago. Yes we will be running 15 trains on the line at one time. That doesn't mean we can't have 18 trains running per hour. If you have a shorter track, it is possible to have 1 train and still run 50 trains per hour. Once a train completes its run, it can go back and do it again. Even though it's the same train, it still counts as a new train trip.


When the Trillium line first opened, it only had 3 vehicles. Despite that, it ran every 15 minutes. Which means they were sending 4 trains per hour, per direction, with only 3 trains. Same idea with the Confederation Line. We may only have 15 (Double) trains running on the line at any one time, we can still send 18 trains per hour per direction.

[JM1]

Is it just me or are the trains always running very slow? Considering we had them built to run at (up to) 100km/h, I have never seen one of the trains running at more than about 45km/h and sometimes slower than that.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by JM1

Is it just me or are the trains always running very slow? Considering we had them built to run at (up to) 100km/h, I have never seen one of the trains running at more than about 45km/h and sometimes slower than that.

The alignment has a lot of curves that bring the speed in a number of places down.

They're often spotted doing 80km/h+ between uOttawa and Lees, as well as in other straightaways though.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Memo might be a couple days old.

They have five days to provide a new substantial completion date, that would be by Saturday, or Tuesday if only business days count (this coming Monday being a holiday).

It seems it down to end quibbles at this point, if the city and RTG agree the timeline for handover hasn't changed as mentioned in the memo.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by JM1

Is it just me or are the trains always running very slow? Considering we had them built to run at (up to) 100km/h, I have never seen one of the trains running at more than about 45km/h and sometimes slower than that.

Yeah, where do you see them? Leaving Tremblay headed to Hurdman is when I mostly see them, and they go slow around a hill/curve/leaving and arriving at a super short station. I have seen one passing my car on the 417/174 at St. Laurent-Blair, so it was chugging along at a good clip.

I have only seen single trains since Sunday. This after a good three weeks of only doubles. What gives?

[OCCheetos]

This afternoon at Hurdman I saw 1131 (on its own) pulling in. Unlike every double train I had been seeing in the past few weeks, it opened its doors for a few seconds before closing them and departing.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

This afternoon at Hurdman I saw 1131 (on its own) pulling in. Unlike every double train I had been seeing in the past few weeks, it opened its doors for a few seconds before closing them and departing.

Doors are a deficiency. I am sure they are trying to get the bugs out of opening and closing them.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I have only seen single trains since Sunday. This after a good three weeks of only doubles. What gives?

It’s hard to fix defects if the trains are always out running. Maybe this is a good sign that trains are actively being worked on to resolve the issues.