O-Train Line 1/3 [Stage 2 | West Extension | Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

I would tend to agree - the documentation I've seen seems to indicate MUP work on new or highly revamped RoW - otherwise very little mention.
I do think they are paying a bit more attention to this after the massive FUBAR of Pimisi station connectivity.

For What It's Worth !

The silver lining of the Booth Street Bridge screw-up is that it is highly unlikely that mistake will be made again; bike infrastructure will hopefully be included by default going forward (as it should be).

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by Baybreeze12

...........

Maybe a bit off topic but, with respect to Pimisi, I remember they had originally built the Booth St overpass without any bike connectivity. Was that the extent of the screw-up?

Good Day.

Not quite all.
Reference to WestSideAction.ca , several people were on the early consultations for connectivity, including bike, for LeBreton / Pimisi , and they and the planners came up with a plan for the station. Then, when contract and construction time came - it had totally and completely disappeared. The station was built with NO connectivity on the upper level.
Then they had to come up with an emergency make-do, which was built AFTER the majority of construction, and chewed into a considerable portion of the contingency fund (which then later resulted in a contingency fund overrun when they all-of-a-sudden realized they had forgotten training aids for operators, and OC-T had to go back to Council for a special fund allotment, which the contingency fund was 'intended' for - stuff forgotten in the contract).
Meeeeeantime, Booth made do for a long time with sidewalk "sharing" - an inherent conflict between bicyclists, pedestrians, and transit transfers. The current incarnation is only slightly better, and is the best that can be made of a backwards afterthought implementation - not good.
It was a classic SNAFUBAR from start to finish.

As noted by me and bradnixon , the ongoing take-away is that it will likely never be allowed to happen so badly ever again. Small comfort for a major transfer location.

NoJoy!

[OCCheetos]

Some questions I asked, and got answers to:

How will inbound trains be interlined at Lincoln Fields? Will there be a 1:1 ratio of trains coming from Moodie and Baseline?
Yes, trains will be 1:1 during peak, however, late in the evening from Monday to Thursday, when night classes at post-secondary institutions are over and ridership is lower, customers travelling to or from Queensview, Pinecrest, Bayshore, and Moodie Stations will need to change trains at Lincoln Fields Station.

Trains along the full line will operate between Trim Station and Baseline Station. Lincoln Fields Station is being configured to allow an easy connection to the trains operating between there and Moodie.


Are trains planned to continue to run every 4 minutes on the central portion of the line (and therefore meaning trains every 8 minutes beyond Lincoln Fields on either branch)?
From Lincoln Fields Station, where the two western branches converge, and through downtown, service on the two lines will combine to provide double the frequency of service.

Will some trains be short-turned at Blair because of the interlining on the other end?
At some times of the day, particularly in the morning peak period, there will be eastbound trains that operate only as far as Blair Station. Customers travelling to points east of there can choose to wait for the next train or to change trains at Blair. Electronic signs on the train and platform, as well as audio announcements, will clearly indicate if the trains will end at Blair Station. This practise is required to ensure that the appropriate level of service is provided at all stations and to control capital and operating costs.

[Aylmer]

Although reasonable from an operations' perspective, this seems unfortunately complicated from a passenger's perspective. If I'm heading to Bayshore from downtown and I see a "Baseline" train pulling into the station, should I wait for a "Moodie" train, or are they no longer running?

[qprcanada]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Although reasonable from an operations' perspective, this seems unfortunately complicated from a passenger's perspective. If I'm heading to Bayshore from downtown and I see a "Baseline" train pulling into the station, should I wait for a "Moodie" train, or are they no longer running?

I would think the departure/arrival screens would list the station at which the train would terminate at.

I have seen this on the Underground where lines such as the District Line have multiple terminations point.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by qprcanada

I would think the departure/arrival screens would list the station at which the train would terminate at.

I have seen this on the Underground where lines such as the District Line have multiple terminations point.

The arrivals signs at Confederation Line stations do indicate their terminal station. They show the next two trains to arrive.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

The arrivals signs at Confederation Line stations do indicate their terminal station. They show the next two trains to arrive.

Exactly, if you see that this train and the next two will all go to Baseline, best to take it. Besides, since trains, unlike buses, never pass each other, there is no fear that taking the earlier train will have you miss the next one.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

The arrivals signs at Confederation Line stations do indicate their terminal station. They show the next two trains to arrive.

It's no necessary at this point in time because we only have one terminus at each end. I'm sure they will display the final destinations once Stage 2 opens.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by qprcanada

I would think the departure/arrival screens would list the station at which the train would terminate at.

The problem isn't that there would be multiple termini, it's that one of them isn't consistently served. Again, I see why that is from an operational standpoint, but for the uninitiated passenger, they might not know that at some times, they catch a Bayshore train and avoid Baseline trains, but that at others they have to take a Baseline train and transfer at LF for Bayshore. Nor will it necessarily be obvious when the cut-off is, as it appears to vary from day to day (7 pm Monday-Thursday, but 9 pm on Fridays? And weekends?). I can see how some passengers might inadvertently end up waiting a long time for a Bayshore train past 7 pm before someone informs them that they're no longer running at that hour.

It's not rocket science, but transit should be as intuitive and as predictable as possible. I hope they will put a great deal of effort into making this "sometimes-transfer-sometimes-don't" clear and uncomplicated for passengers.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Some questions I asked, and got answers to:

How will inbound trains be interlined at Lincoln Fields? Will there be a 1:1 ratio of trains coming from Moodie and Baseline?
Yes, trains will be 1:1 during peak, however, late in the evening from Monday to Thursday, when night classes at post-secondary institutions are over and ridership is lower, customers travelling to or from Queensview, Pinecrest, Bayshore, and Moodie Stations will need to change trains at Lincoln Fields Station.

Trains along the full line will operate between Trim Station and Baseline Station. Lincoln Fields Station is being configured to allow an easy connection to the trains operating between there and Moodie.


.........

Good Day.

Methinks it is about time that OC-T re-address or justify the question of which fork of the LincolnFields split will be the primary, and which the secondary (shuttle) service.
It was barely reasonable that Bayshore was the shuttle, when Algonquin provided storage capacity and was basically similar in length-time. Now, Moodie is the longer run.
Are they basing it on terminus passenger volume/transfer stats to BRT (SW T-way .vs. West T-way) ?

Inquiring minds !

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

Methinks it is about time that OC-T re-address or justify the question of which fork of the LincolnFields split will be the primary, and which the secondary (shuttle) service.
It was barely reasonable that Bayshore was the shuttle, when Algonquin provided storage capacity and was basically similar in length-time. Now, Moodie is the longer run.
Are they basing it on terminus passenger volume/transfer stats to BRT (SW T-way .vs. West T-way) ?

Inquiring minds !

That's a good point.

One possible reason is that the #95 (Baseline+ to Orleans) has for the past 35 or so years been the backbone of the city's transit system. They just decided to keep that route.

Whether or not it's a good justification is another matter.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

The problem isn't that there would be multiple termini, it's that one of them isn't consistently served. Again, I see why that is from an operational standpoint, but for the uninitiated passenger, they might not know that at some times, they catch a Bayshore train and avoid Baseline trains, but that at others they have to take a Baseline train and transfer at LF for Bayshore. Nor will it necessarily be obvious when the cut-off is, as it appears to vary from day to day (7 pm Monday-Thursday, but 9 pm on Fridays? And weekends?). I can see how some passengers might inadvertently end up waiting a long time for a Bayshore train past 7 pm before someone informs them that they're no longer running at that hour.

It's not rocket science, but transit should be as intuitive and as predictable as possible. I hope they will put a great deal of effort into making this "sometimes-transfer-sometimes-don't" clear and uncomplicated for passengers.

An easy solution to the problem is to have the signs say "Baseline with connection to Moodie," or something similar.

[Aylmer]

That's a good idea. My point is that I hope they'll be creative in ensuring it's intuitive.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day. An FYI.

They have posted a Crystal Beach Lakeview Community Association update presentation on the Bayshore to Moodie extension to the Western LRT,
from 2019 April 16, on the " www.stage2lrt.ca/resources-2/ " resources page (pdf, 23 pages):

https://www.stage2lrt.ca/wp-content/uplo...yshore-Update-CBLCA-April-16-English.pdf

Views, plan details, connectivity, etc. of Bayshore stn, Moodie stn, Corkstown rd, Stillwater creek, 417 ramps.

EnJoy!

[PHrenetic]

Good Day.

An FYI (may have already been noted) - Kiewit has posted a "Stakeholder Outreach Coordinator" job on LinkedIn :

https://ca.linkedin.com/jobs/view/stakeholder-outreach-coordinator-ottawa-lrt-at-kiewit-1211445679

4 weeks old, 8 applicants.

General Description

Kiewit is seeking an experienced Stakeholder Outreach Coordinator to support its urban transit project group for the Stage 2 LRT/ Confederation Line Extension. During design and construction, the successful candidate will directly support the planning and implementation of high-caliber, strategic communication and engagement for our projects. In collaboration with the client, the candidate will ensure that stakeholders and the public are proactively informed and engaged directly and through other media, with accurate, timely and transparent information about design and construction-related activities. This work will support issues and complaint management, strategic stakeholder and public relations, and message and material development. The candidate will play an essential role serving as a day-to-day community liaison with stakeholders and the public for our design and construction-related activities. The candidate will also be responsible to lead our inquiry response to proactively address and resolve community questions and complaints. The candidate will be an expert communicator who is fully bilingual in English and French.

Primary Duties And Responsibilities
Support the implementation of communication and engagement strategies and plans that respond to the goals of community awareness and input.
Draft and edit key messages and materials across multiple platforms, including social and mainstream media, print and website publishing and publicity, announcement and event organizing, media relations support, stakeholder and community liaison, and overall communications support.
Coordinate and attend community relations meetings with stakeholders and the public to provide design and construction information with accountability and diplomacy.
Compile stakeholder and public feedback and debrief with our technical team and project partners as we consider how feedback may be incorporated in our projects, and report back to the community on our progress.
Lead the public inquiry and complaint management tactics to ensure our response times are highly accountable and accurate information is exchanged.
Coordinate text with graphics and illustrations to convey design and construction-related information that is easy for the community to understand.
Monitor and analyze media reports and ensure inaccuracies are reported and corrected.
Support crisis communications in collaboration with our project partners.
Coordinate and participate in technical co-ordination and communications committee meetings acting as a conduit between our on-the-ground activities, our management team and the public.

EnJoy!

[Arcologist]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day. An FYI.

They have posted a Crystal Beach Lakeview Community Association update presentation on the Bayshore to Moodie extension to the Western LRT,
from 2019 April 16, on the " www.stage2lrt.ca/resources-2/ " resources page (pdf, 23 pages):

https://www.stage2lrt.ca/wp-content/uplo...yshore-Update-CBLCA-April-16-English.pdf

Views, plan details, connectivity, etc. of Bayshore stn, Moodie stn, Corkstown rd, Stillwater creek, 417 ramps.

EnJoy!

They're building a vehicle maintenance station/garage alongside the 417 and Corkstown!?! I had no idea. I guess that would be Phase 3?

[corynv]

Originally Posted by Arcologist

They're building a vehicle maintenance station/garage alongside the 417 and Corkstown!?! I had no idea. I guess that would be Phase 3?

That's the Light Maintenance and Storage facility at Moodie, it's part of stage 2. Belfast Yards is too small (even with the expansion it's doing) to store all 70 something LRVs we'll have at the end of stage 2.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by Arcologist

They're building a vehicle maintenance station/garage alongside the 417 and Corkstown!?! I had no idea. I guess that would be Phase 3?

Good Day.

Nope - Phase 2, now in the works.

It is the LMSF in the west sections to balance the MSF in the east sections (Belfast). Light maint as cleaning, sandbox refill, wash, small fast repairs. Also storage (max 34 LRV) to relieve an overloaded Belfast storage.

It then provides more balance when Phase 3 west to TerryFox/Palladium/Stittsville and southwest to Fallowfield/Strandherd/Market/Jockvale comes along.

It comes with extending the western C-Line from Bayshore to Moodie, and allowed a reduced cost of LMSF .vs. the preliminary location at Woodroffe south of Algonquin, which would have had more bridges and a long non-revenue access lead until Phase 3.

EnJoy.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by corynv

That's the Light Maintenance and Storage facility at Moodie, it's part of stage 2. Belfast Yards is too small (even with the expansion it's doing) to store all 70 something LRVs we'll have at the end of stage 2.

Belfast will have just enough capacity to hold all 72 LRVs while the Moodie LMSF is built and eventually connected. All new LRVs are supposed to be assembled by 2022 IIRC, but Moodie won't be linked to the rest of the network until 2024. Part of the capacity at Belfast is provided by a temporary storage shed which will be taken down once Stage 2 launches.

[corynv]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Belfast will have just enough capacity to hold all 72 LRVs while the Moodie LMSF is built and eventually connected. All new LRVs are supposed to be assembled by 2022 IIRC, but Moodie won't be linked to the rest of the network until 2024. Part of the capacity at Belfast is provided by a temporary storage shed which will be taken down once Stage 2 launches.

Isn't that only because they're being a temporary shelter before stage 2 is open? After that it won't be bale to hold as many.