The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I can understand Plante's position. She was elected on the Pink Line. She wants to work on reducing congestion on the current Metro system. Stage 1 of the REM will help, but expanding on the REM will get us back to where we are now. She's the Mayor of Montreal, not the metropolitan area.

This reminds me a lot of the Toronto situation. The City makes transit plans and then the province steps in and scrapes the current projects in favour of their own pet projects that will win more votes in the suburbs. That is what got us the Yonge-University mess. Downtown be damned.

Let's not make the same mistake in Montreal.

Originally Posted by Aylmer

In a region as administratively fractured as Greater Montreal, it's best to have an arms-length organization coordinating transportation planning rather than handing the steering wheel to fleeting political interests and unaccountable private interests. Quebec has an unenviable history of politically- and privately-motivated transport plans which fizzle as soon as the next one flares. From the TRAMM to CP's monorail, there have been a lot of flash-bang proposals which have come to nothing because there's no good mechanism for actually following through, and there's always some new exciting thing on the horizon. Well, they finally got that mechanism - the ARTM - which managed to wrangle and herd the various political interests of the region into coherent and concrete plans, timelines, and funding.

My opinion exactly.

The CAQ is bringing back the same lack of coherent vision that plagued our region for years.

[MalcolmTucker]

It will be interesting how the CDPQi studies go. When the reports come back that the expansions are much less 'free-standing' than the current project (they won't generate as much induced revenue that can be captured to pay for the project), will it be as attractive to the government when they have to pay 70% for an asset they will never own without a large capital payment?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Anyone know why they never considered 16th avenue for a station? Seems like an obvious place for a station.

Grades were too steep using cut and cover due to proximity to other stations.
A station at 16th would have required a deeper bored tunnel to get a level section of track.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

It will be interesting how the CDPQi studies go. When the reports come back that the expansions are much less 'free-standing' than the current project (they won't generate as much induced revenue that can be captured to pay for the project), will it be as attractive to the government when they have to pay 70% for an asset they will never own without a large capital payment?

I don't know how the "ownership" structure would work but the CDPQ is legally part of/the property of the Government of Quebec.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't know how the "ownership" structure would work but the CDPQ is legally part of/the property of the Government of Quebec.

Yes, they could always do that but the markets might not like that kind of takeover. Hence why the CDPQi has the liberty to refuse projects.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Yes, they could always do that but the markets might not like that kind of takeover. Hence why the CDPQi has the liberty to refuse projects.

I know. My point was that having the CDPQi involved in the way that it is isn't at all the same thing as the government giving cash to a private entity, that can in theory take the money and run, which in some cases has been akin to throwing public funds out the window.

The risk of investment loss in this one is basically nil.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Yes, they could always do that but the markets might not like that kind of takeover. Hence why the CDPQi has the liberty to refuse projects.

This is what I was trying to get at. CDPQi is great for now because politicians can announce projects and pay for them with future theoretical money, which unless there is a backstop in the agreement, does not create either an asset or a liability in the government's books. For the new projects, they might not be freestanding in the same way, so CDPQi seeks more generous terms from the government and revenue guarantees. The risk adjusted liability for backstopping the project to reduce the risk that development can't support it (why would CDPQi carry this risk?) gets booked in the government budget, and creates a budget deficit. Or the government capital contribution goes up to the point that it doesn't make sense to deliver it through a third party.
This is no different whether it is a Quebec pension fund, or a consortium of pension funds from around the world taking on the project. That Quebec is restricting itself to CDPQi is only a means to reduce political barriers to P3 development, it does not change how the deals appear in the province's books, or how CDPQi is looking out for its pensioners first.

All of a sudden, those who may have been uncomfortable with the model all along say: "If we are carrying the risk, why aren't we carrying the asset". The provincial pension fund is not an asset of the government. It is not Alberta's Heritage Fund.

[kwoldtimer]

K-W's ION will start service on June 21st, the Region of Waterloo announced today.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

K-W's ION will start service on June 21st, the Region of Waterloo announced today.

Your move Ottawa.

[zahav]

Any Montrealers shed some light on this? Sounds odd ridership would drop when people are talking all about its growth and expansion?

Ridership dropped significantly on Montreal’s commuter trains in 2018
The numbers are out, and 2018 is not a year that officials at exo, Montreal’s public transit service, will be celebrating.

Overall ridership on its six commuter rail lines was down 1.2 per cent. That’s the first time the combined commuter rail lines have lost riders in years

https://globalnews.ca/news/5254658/ridership-drop-montreal-communter-trains-2018/

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by zahav

Any Montrealers shed some light on this? Sounds odd ridership would drop when people are talking all about its growth and expansion?

Commuter rail is only a small portion of Montreal's transit system; the much more important heavy rail and bus systems grew considerably more based on APTA numbers:



https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/2018-Q4-Ridership-APTA.pdf

[zahav]

Oh OK so is commuter rail like our Skytrain or Toronto's subways? What is heavy rail there vs. commuter rail?

[accord1999]

I think the most comparable Vancouver service to Montreal's commuter rail is the West Coast Express. Heavy rail in this case refers to Montreal's subway.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by zahav

Any Montrealers shed some light on this? Sounds odd ridership would drop when people are talking all about its growth and expansion?

Ridership dropped significantly on Montreal’s commuter trains in 2018
The numbers are out, and 2018 is not a year that officials at exo, Montreal’s public transit service, will be celebrating.

Overall ridership on its six commuter rail lines was down 1.2 per cent. That’s the first time the combined commuter rail lines have lost riders in years

https://globalnews.ca/news/5254658/ridership-drop-montreal-communter-trains-2018/

REM construction and a bad Winter. Such a click-baity title as it's not signifiant in away with all train cancellations on the DM line and the call to find alternative transport.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Commuter rail is only a small portion of Montreal's transit system; the much more important heavy rail and bus systems grew considerably more based on APTA numbers

The Deux-Montagnes line itself (the busiest) had a 6.1% drop because of the REM construction which led to increased delays and the cancellation of 3 departures. All the other lines saw a ridership increase except Mont-Saint-Hilaire, which only had a 0.4% drop.

[J.OT13]

I thought this might be of interest. A new video for Ottawa "Ready4Rail" campaign. We get a good look at stations, the trains and new service.

• Video Link

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Commuter rail is only a small portion of Montreal's transit system; the much more important heavy rail and bus systems grew considerably more based on APTA numbers:



https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/2018-Q4-Ridership-APTA.pdf

What's with the huge surge in heavy rail (subway?) passengers for the TTC and the precipitous drop in their "light rail" passengers? Is there a connection between the two variances?

[CityTech]

I think the drop in "LR" in Toronto is because so many of the streetcar routes have been temporarily replaced with buses due to the shortage of vehicles.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by CityTech

I think the drop in "LR" in Toronto is because so many of the streetcar routes have been temporarily replaced with buses due to the shortage of vehicles.

I can confirm. For TTC's 500's routes (aka the streetcar routes), I've seen more buses than streetcars for, for example, 505 Dundas.

[Acajack]

And the surge in subway passengers? Seems hard to believe.