Broadway Corridor Development Plan

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Guess who blocked the Canada Line and the Evergreen, and continue to block development along the Evergreen? Port Moody's not as bad as West Van, sure, but it's still bad... albeit more "hippie" than "retired WASPie millionaire."

Wouldn't the outer suburbs be more reactionary? If you're used to nothing but cars and two-storey infill, then urbanization is going to seem much more alien.

Outer suburbs have more newcomers, with many more used to high density developments. Vancouver and West Van are filled with entitled folks who think that they are better than everyone else (seriously they are not, not in the tiniest bit) and that the world owes them something for being "superior". These are the folks who love pushing their weight around, both literally and figuratively.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

Outer suburbs have more newcomers, with many more used to high density developments. Vancouver and West Van are filled with entitled folks who think that they are better than everyone else (seriously they are not, not in the tiniest bit) and that the world owes them something for being "superior". These are the folks who love pushing their weight around, both literally and figuratively.

Let's not pretend there aren't plenty of entitled rednecks south of Fraser, or urban-minded immigrants north of it. Let's definitely not define entire neighbourhoods by a dozen people on the news.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Guess who blocked the Canada Line and the Evergreen, and continue to block development along the Evergreen? Port Moody's not as bad as West Van, sure, but it's still bad... albeit more "hippie" than "retired WASPie millionaire."

Wouldn't the outer suburbs be more reactionary? If you're used to nothing but cars and two-storey infill, then urbanization is going to seem much more alien.

It's better than a lot of neighborhoods in Vancouver, like the West End, so my point still applies.

Not sure about how NIMBY City of North Van is. I don't think we can constitute the Fraser as 'water' in this context.

No, generally Outer Suburbs don't care much about having to sell their homes- as Vin said, they're generally composed of people who are used to moving around, either out of affordability, to generate cash, or to get a better home (immigrant or otherwise).

Even Langley City, though technically an 'old city', has few NIMBYs. SFHs get demolished for apartment complexes all the time without a hitch, and there's generally a air of excitement over the Skytrain.

Plus, most of the newer outer suburbs are partially composed of 4-5 story apartment complexes anyways.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Let's not pretend there aren't plenty of entitled rednecks south of Fraser, or urban-minded immigrants north of it. Let's definitely not define entire neighbourhoods by a dozen people on the news.

Well, yeah, but they tend not to be as involved in pushing against development, and are diluted in Metro Van SOF (compared to further up the Valley).

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Let's not pretend there aren't plenty of entitled rednecks south of Fraser, or urban-minded immigrants north of it. Let's definitely not define entire neighbourhoods by a dozen people on the news.

These dozen people north of the Fraser make the news and influence the decisions of City Councils, so that's what counts. If those so-called red-necks make the news, then let's talk about them then k?

In fact, I'm heartened that folks in Surrey and Langley actually support the construction of the skytrain extension rather than having the watered-down street cars. That speaks a lot. It is kinda weird that your anti-development. south of Fraser River "red-necks" are nowhere to be found.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

These dozen people north of the Fraser make the news and influence the decisions of City Councils, so that's what counts. If those so-called red-necks make the news, then let's talk about them then k?

In fact, I'm heartened that folks in Surrey and Langley actually support the construction of the skytrain extension rather than having the watered-down street cars. That speaks a lot.

Then can we agree that PRC money laundering is a problem? They make the news twice as often.

Agreed. It also speaks a lot that 89% of the CoV supports SkyTrain to UBC, while the pro-SkyTrain parties in Surrey only won by 43% to 26% for streetcars (about 30% voted for "maybe" parties).

Originally Posted by Vin

It is kinda weird that your anti-development. south of Fraser River "red-necks" are nowhere to be found.

I seriously wonder whether or not you're even looking.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

It's better than a lot of neighborhoods in Vancouver, like the West End, so my point still applies.

Not sure about how NIMBY City of North Van is. I don't think we can constitute the Fraser as 'water' in this context.

No, generally Outer Suburbs don't care much about having to sell their homes- as Vin said, they're generally composed of people who are used to moving around, either out of affordability, to generate cash, or to get a better home (immigrant or otherwise).

Even Langley City, though technically an 'old city', has few NIMBYs. SFHs get demolished for apartment complexes all the time without a hitch, and there's generally a air of excitement over the Skytrain.

Plus, most of the newer outer suburbs are partially composed of 4-5 story apartment complexes anyways.


Well, yeah, but they tend not to be as involved in pushing against development, and are diluted in Metro Van SOF (compared to further up the Valley).

You mean the West Side? The West End's got its share of opposition, but TBF already has a boatload of density.

I think it's more of an urban-rural split. As you said, Langley City's pretty progressive (being much more compact and slightly denser), but much of the Township is highways and cul-de-sacs and strongly opposed to development; same divide between the City and District of North Van.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Then can we agree that PRC money laundering is a problem? They make the news twice as often.

I know this is hotly debated but the amount of our real estate price increases caused by money laundering is small, and likely much of it did not come from China. Money laundering didn't suddenly start here in the past 3 years, its been happening for centuries. Money laundering happens across North America and is not exclusive to BC. The reply from the RCMP below to Eby's sensationalized reports/statements is interesting.

https://www.straight.com/news/1225336/rc...tatement-response-peter-germans-comments

Although a little out of date this Canadian report helps to discuss the issue too, note that it points out that money laundering in Canada has been stable from 2006-2009. So far I haven't seen evidence that money laundering, specifically in BC, has increased per a person in the past decade:
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-005-x/2011001/article/11454-eng.htm



Logically I think no one is stupid enough to think that money laundering suddenly started occurring in the past 5 years in just Vancouver or suddenly rose sharply in just Vancouver. And much of the money thats been laundered over the years is local or from cartels/gangs/terrorists, not the Chinese:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/rcmp-money-laundering-1.5015602

https://globalnews.ca/news/5084587/hezbollahs-canadian-money-laundering-ops/

Btw notice how the last article tries to trick stupid readers by constantly mentioning "Vancouver" to create this perception that it only happens there to support the GN spiel that its responsible for home prices when in reality it was many Canadian cities:

According to a former senior U.S. official with knowledge of the meeting, the DEA had “dirty calls” — meaning calls providing criminal evidence of cocaine shipments and cash movements in Canada — from narco-kingpins in Colombia to a network of operatives in Halifax, Vancouver, Calgary, and London, Ont.

This whole money laundering only happens in Vancouver and is responsible for our home prices is just something that Global News made up to get stupid readers creating conclusions from little evidence, don't buy into it please.

Yes money laundering occurs, and yes some real estate is purchased, but this happens everywhere so why is it only us that has problems? We're not special to criminals, stop thinking that we are. Read the below.

https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/g...g-money-laundering-in-real-estate-121904

The U.S. has long been a target for real estate money laundering. To curb this growing phenomenon, FinCEN, the U.S. Treasury Department’s investigative arm, reissued an expanded directive in November which lowered the financial amount required by title companies to identify all the people at shell companies making purchases in cash above $300,000 or in cryptocurrency. In previous orders, title companies had to report different amounts according to city and the orders didn’t include cryptocurrency. This order evenly applies to all title companies in Boston, Chicago, Dallas-Fort Worth, Honolulu, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, New York City, San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco and Seattle—directly affecting buyers of luxury real estate.

From Penta: Future Returns: Why Active Management Makes Sense

This FinCEN directive won’t discourage criminals coming to the U.S., said Washington, D.C.-based attorney Ross Delston, an anti-money laundering expert who has advised governments around the world. They instead will just have to buy real estate outside of the target area, take out a small loan or not use a title insurance company, he explained.

In an email response FinCEN’s spokesperson said they have nothing to add beyond the publicly available information on the order, but he did send along research saying that after their program requiring LLC owners purchasing luxury real estate to identify themselves was started in Jan. 2016, all cash purchases dropped by 70%.

Around the world, governments have tried a variety of policies to stem the purchase of luxury properties by criminal enterprises. Many of the countries profiled have seen a massive rise in money being laundered in real estate and have taken action. Here’s a snapshot of money laundering rules governments use to manage real estate purchases around the world.

[Migrant_Coconut]

First, you'll note that it was a response to an assertion that NIMBYs can represent their entire neighbourhood just because they're the ones that make the news. Irony, meet sarcasm; sarcasm, irony. Most people have enough heart and brainpower to separate "Chinese criminals" from "Chinese."

Second, nobody's EVER made the argument that 2014 Vancouver was the root of all dirty money in human history. Mainlanders wanting to evade government oversight and/or taxes saw a country right across the pond with a lax immigration policy, low population and politicians willing to look the other way in return for a cut of the proceeds, that it's been going on even before the Olympics, and it's only now with all the long-term repercussions that we're starting to see how deep the rabbit hole goes. That graph is correct.

Third... why the hell are you talking about housing? That's a land speculation problem, and a whole 'nother can of worms - yes, it's mostly gangbangers and CEOs walking into RiverRock with suitcases of cash, but any random tai-tai with a phone can find ways to buy and sell property.

[Changing City]

It's wierd. I would have sworn there was a thread about money laundering and how it affects the Vancouver real estate market, and another about development along the Brosdway Corridor, but somehow they seem to have merged.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Then can we agree that PRC money laundering is a problem? They make the news twice as often.

Agreed. It also speaks a lot that 89% of the CoV supports SkyTrain to UBC, while the pro-SkyTrain parties in Surrey only won by 43% to 26% for streetcars (about 30% voted for "maybe" parties).

It also speaks a lot that City of Vancouver is one of those places that caves in or succumbs to that 1% non-sensical but vocal group. White Rock, District of North Van and West Vancouver are guilty of that too.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

It also speaks a lot that City of Vancouver is one of those places that caves in or succumbs to that 1% non-sensical but vocal group. White Rock, District of North Van and West Vancouver are guilty of that too.

Literally two days ago; many people were supportive of the brewery. Minority rule can happen anywhere in the metro, it's just that Van and North Van, by virtue of location, have better excuses for it.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

You mean the West Side? The West End's got its share of opposition, but TBF already has a boatload of density.

I think it's more of an urban-rural split. As you said, Langley City's pretty progressive (being much more compact and slightly denser), but much of the Township is highways and cul-de-sacs and strongly opposed to development; same divide between the City and District of North Van.

The only really NIMBY part of TOL is Brookswood (not surprising, it's the oldest part of the Township). Willoughby has some opposition, but mostly due to difficulties in infrastructure catching up to the development (a valid concern, schools are being built with portables already installed for a reason).

Cul-de-sacs are more Walnut Grove and Willowbrook, Brookswood is an old suburb, and Willoughby has so much density being piled on in roughly square-sized lots it's difficult to breathe in places in the summer due to dust from construction.


The minority dictating community policy part in Tsawwassen is an exception. South and North Delta don't make sense as one municipality, and may as well not be without how things are.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by fredinno

The minority dictating community policy part in Tsawwassen is an exception. South and North Delta don't make sense as one municipality, and may as well not be without how things are.

I'd agree with separating North Delta, but it's got its share of NIMBYism too.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Literally two days ago; many people were supportive of the brewery. Minority rule can happen anywhere in the metro, it's just that Van and North Van, by virtue of location, have better excuses for it.

But wait till you propose a 40-storey brewery....

Who doesn't love beer and then proceed to smash nice things here?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by misher

Although a little out of date this Canadian report helps to discuss the issue too, note that it points out that money laundering in Canada has been stable from 2006-2009. So far I haven't seen evidence that money laundering, specifically in BC, has increased per a person in the past decade:
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-005-x/2011001/article/11454-eng.htm



Logically I think no one is stupid enough to think that money laundering suddenly started occurring in the past 5 years in just Vancouver or suddenly rose sharply in just Vancouver.

It's interesting how you use a chart that shows money laundering increasing by a factor of 10 in three years as an argument that thinking that it couldn't suddenly rise sharply is "stupid".

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Vin

But wait till you propose a 40-storey brewery....

Who doesn't love beer and then proceed to smash nice things here?

Just imagine a 40 story brewery. Enough beer to intoxicate all of Vancouver!

[Feathered Friend]

Draft Motion for Council’s consideration:
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED

A. THAT Council direct staff to identify the neighbourhoods of Kitsilano (west of Vine
Street) and West Point Grey for interim rezoning policies and speculation
mitigation for the upcoming city-wide plan and local area planning initiatives,
except for the MST-owned land area as identified in the concurrent Jericho
Lands Policy Planning Program.

B. THAT Council direct staff to explore the use of rental only zoning in the Broadway
Plan area through the Broadway Planning Process, and in the neighbourhoods of
Kitsilano and West Point Grey, through the City-wide plan process or other
robust, collaborative and equitable planning processes to enhance the protection
of renters and limit speculation in response to transit infrastructure investment.

C. THAT Council direct staff to extend the Broadway Plan Interim Rezoning Policy
(Policy on Consideration of Rezoning Applications and Heritage Revitalization
Agreements during the Broadway Planning Process) to the neighbourhoods of
Kitsilano and West Point Grey, that generally rezonings will not be considered
while the planning process is underway, with the following exceptions:

a. Where, at the time of adoption of this rezoning policy, there is an active
rezoning application or where a recent application for rezoning advice has
been received, and the applicant has received a written response stating
that a rezoning application would be considered (within the past three
years), the application will be considered;

b. Rezoning applications will be considered for projects involving 100%
social and supportive housing, or community care facilities or group
residence, or 100% below market rental housing, or 100% affordable
student housing associated with educational institutions;

c. Rezoning applications which seek relief from any of the terms of this
rezoning policy may be considered under exceptional circumstances once
reported to Council for, at the discretion of the Director of Planning; and
d. Heritage Revitalization Agreement applications where a heritage or
character building is at risk of demolition.

D. THAT Council amend the Development Cost Expectation (DCE) policy to include
the neighbourhoods of Kitsilano (West of Vine Street) and West Point Grey.

E. THAT land use in the neighbourhoods of Kitsilano (west of Vine Street) and West
Point Grey be planned through future collaborative neighbourhood-based and
city-wide planning processes

https://council.vancouver.ca/20190423/documents/a1.pdf

The refereed, halt all new development in Kitsilano and West Point Grey, motion is back with some slight amendments.

https://council.vancouver.ca/20190423/documents/a1.pdf

[LeftCoaster]

What a mess.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

What a mess.

why?

[LeftCoaster]

That the housing market has come to this, halting all development in a huge part of the city so that we can do what we should have done decades ago and come up with a proper plan for it.