Tivoli Theatre | ? | 22 fl | Planning

[realcity]

^ that's a good idea. Like Dundas Sq.

[Crapht]

Originally Posted by realcity

^ that's a good idea. Like Dundas Sq.

Kind of, but less flashy. Yonge-Dundas sq is too much. IMO

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by matt602

The problem is the current owners, not the structure. The fact that they had to resort to a "toonie drive" a decade ago proves that they were never really in the financial position to build a condo tower in the first place, let alone restore the existing auditorium.

Two different owners (albeit somewhat related).

The Snidermans sold the half-demolished building to the Canadian Ballet Youth Ensemble, whose board president is Belma Diamanté. The building was initially supposed to be a multi-tenant performing arts centre but there’s no evidence that the group ever sought out the kind of capital grants or corporate donations that would have helped achieve that vision. There was press attention to the announcement of a $15m capital campaign in 2009 but no follow-up in the years following. In this light, the toonie drive appears to be nothing more than a modest off-books revenue stream.

After seven years of sitting on the site, the CBYE sold the building to Diamante Holdings (not to be confused with the unrelated Diamante Development Corp).

Diamante Holdings abbreviates to DH which seems fitting since it’s run by Domenic Diamante, Belma’s husband.

She at least appeared to appreciate the unsavoury optics. A Spec story at the time reported:

"[Board member Gary] Santucci said the deal has been in the works for two or three months. He said Gurdil-Diamante — the ballet's CEO — has recused herself from board discussions about the deal to avoid conflict of interest arising from being married to the purchaser."

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by Crapht

Effort Trust should step up and partner with the owners or the city and demolish their plaza beside the Tivoli because it's disgusting. Restore the Tivoli and build the tower beside the theatre at the corner of Wilson and Hughson. The remaining property along James From CBC to Wilson should be a public space called Tivoli Square. That's my wish for the property.

Effort Trust is not about historical restoration or piazza development. They're about lending life support to fugly commercial properties and outdated residential.

Credit for building Centre Point Plaza goes to the late Jack Beume, survived by a real estate company that's like a scale model Effort Trust.

Centre Point Plaza occupies a land area around 80% that of the Tivoli lot, and it sits on two corners. My hunch is that its owners know what the property is worth, and it's exponentially more than the discount bin valuation assigned to the Tivoli transaction, even if they just take a page from the Diamante playbook and flip the holding.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by Pipedreams

The classic problem with heritage buildings, everyone likes the idea of them being restored but very few people can afford to do so. So what we are left with is heritage buildings in ruin throughout the downtown with hopes that someday someone with deep pockets will sweep them up and restore them. Historic buildings are beautiful, and I agree with that they are preferable to generic new builds but unless we as a society are ready to pay for the costs of restoring them (either through taxation or only having unaffordable "luxury" condo's built on their grounds) then we have to allow for some of them to be replaced.

Nah. We just wait for liuna to restore them all

[timach]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

Just one more example of what Hamilton specializes in. Demolition-by-neglect. It's a defeatist attitude, and should not be promoted imo.

Hey id like to see it restored. I just have no faith it'll happen

[Crapht]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Effort Trust is not about historical restoration or piazza development. They're about lending life support to fugly commercial properties and outdated residential.

Credit for building Centre Point Plaza goes to the late Jack Beume, survived by a real estate company that's like a scale model Effort Trust.

Centre Point Plaza occupies a land area around 80% that of the Tivoli lot, and it sits on two corners. My hunch is that its owners know what the property is worth, and it's exponentially more than the discount bin valuation assigned to the Tivoli transaction, even if they just take a page from the Diamante playbook and flip the holding.

Rain on my parade. I was only dreaming. I knew part of that story. It's unfortunate and should not be allowed to happen.

[hamilton23]

In my opinion, I'd be surprised if this gets built under current ownership.

The easiest, cheapest and probably the best thing for this building and for the area, would've been a complete restoration of the actual theatre and make it a theatre/film venue, similar to the Elgin in Toronto, Mirvish, etc.

Building Condos above a theatre never made any sense. Especially when you factor in sound restrictions and other factors in this case (extensive demolition, reconstruction, etc) That costs huge money.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by hamilton23

I'd be surprised if this gets built under current ownership.

The easiest, cheapest and probably the best thing for this building and for the area, would've been a complete restoration of the actual theatre and make it a theatre/film venue, similar to the Elgin in Toronto, Mirvish, etc.

Building Condos above a theatre never made any sense. Especially when you factor in sound restrictions and other factors in this case (extensive demolition, reconstruction, etc) That costs huge money.

Maybe your family should buy this property? Show us how it's done

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by hamilton23

In my opinion, I'd be surprised if this gets built under current ownership.

The easiest, cheapest and probably the best thing for this building and for the area, would've been a complete restoration of the actual theatre and make it a theatre/film venue, similar to the Elgin in Toronto, Mirvish, etc.

Building Condos above a theatre never made any sense. Especially when you factor in sound restrictions and other factors in this case (extensive demolition, reconstruction, etc) That costs huge money.

I thought the tower was going in front of the theatre, not atop it.

I'll be surprised too if this gets built by the current owners. But it would not surprise me to see another developer take over, much like what's happened with the Connolly.

It may even make sense for the condo and the theatre to be done by separate companies in partnership. The projects need not be tied together, in terms of their build, aside from the connecting parts.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I thought the tower was going in front of the theatre, not atop it.

I'll be surprised too if this gets built by the current owners. But it would not surprise me to see another developer take over, much like what's happened with the Connolly.

It may even make sense for the condo and the theatre to be done by separate companies in partnership. The projects need not be tied together, in terms of their build, aside from the connecting parts.

The condo is being built in front.. or .. was being built in front..

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

The condo is being built in front.. or .. was being built in front..

It's confusing lol

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by hamilton23

It's confusing lol

Yeah the lobby woulda been like a recreation of the original theatre lobby, with access to the theatre up a "grand staircase" - and then the elevator would have taken residents to their units.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Yeah the lobby woulda been like a recreation of the original theatre lobby, with access to the theatre up a "grand staircase" - and then the elevator would have taken residents to their units.

Logistically that wouldn't make much sense unless they had a lot of elevators to service all of those residents.

In my opinion, this could have a lot of potential if it was put in capable hands.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by hamilton23

Logistically that wouldn't make much sense unless they had a lot of elevators to service all of those residents.

In my opinion, this could have a lot of potential if it was put in capable hands.

That saying has been stated far too many times in this city unfortunately.. if only things were put in capable hands..

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

That saying has been stated far too many times in this city unfortunately.. if only things were put in capable hands..

Well.... In this case, I personally don't see the current owner continuing to pay everything associated with the building (taxes, utilities, etc, etc) for the foreseeable future. I could be wrong, but that's a lot of money to just sit on a property and not do anything that would generate a substantial return. We'll see what the future holds for this building/development.

In my opinion, I could see this being sold.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by hamilton23

Well.... In this case, I personally don't see the current owner continuing to pay everything associated with the building (taxes, utilities, etc, etc) for the foreseeable future. I could be wrong, but that's a lot of money to just sit on a property and not do anything that would generate a substantial return. We'll see what the future holds for this building/development.

In my opinion, I could see this being sold.

Sigh.. yeah.

[durandy]

Originally Posted by hamilton23

Well.... In this case, I personally don't see the current owner continuing to pay everything associated with the building (taxes, utilities, etc, etc) for the foreseeable future. I could be wrong, but that's a lot of money to just sit on a property and not do anything that would generate a substantial return. We'll see what the future holds for this building/development.

In my opinion, I could see this being sold.

There are so few disincentives though. They get that stupid property tax rebate for it being empty, and its assessment in any case is based on the current use, not the development potential. They probable don't heat it. They got the property for free. So their carrying costs are almost nothing. The only catch there might be is their approval will have a time limit, so at some point they may need to get moving to preserve an approval that was a bit of a miracle in the first place.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by durandy

There are so few disincentives though. They get that stupid property tax rebate for it being empty, and its assessment in any case is based on the current use, not the development potential. They probable don't heat it. They got the property for free. So their carrying costs are almost nothing. The only catch there might be is their approval will have a time limit, so at some point they may need to get moving to preserve an approval that was a bit of a miracle in the first place.

Yeah, I personally don't know if that can happen based on everything I've read in this thread and some other stuff. Further, the rebate you're referring to is definitely something that helps, but there are still plenty of carryover costs. We'll see what happens though.

[MichaelStJean]

Theatre restoration cost and future use make this a more complicated project.