Gas Prices

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yes but the program is oversubscribed (and should be renewed if the government of BC is serious about CleanBC):

https://pluginbc.ca/incentives/charging-solutions-incentives/

Our building is doing our own thing. The fine print on these incentives is you need to overbuild for the future, and hook up to a monitoring service for the electricity used. Overbuilding might be ok, but the monitoring services mean you're signing up to a monthly fee that you probably can't charge back enough for.

Our other issue, which I'm sure is shared by many condo dwellers, is the lack of available parking to allocate to shared EV charging. We are re-purposing a loading zone spot that is never used, but I doubt owners will ever agree to give up a second parking spot for EV charging. After this, it will be individual owners adding chargers to their parking spots. That will require a bunch of research and careful planning, managed by strata of course.

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised the NDP hasn't moved quickly to expand that program and publicize it. I'm not sure they're aware how much the government of the day "owns" gas prices in voters' minds, right or wrong.

To those loooking to cut fuel bills right away and can't afford a new electric go on to vw.ca and shop their certified used TDI diesel inventory, you'll cut your fuel bill by over 20 cents a litre, before even factoring better mileage.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised the NDP hasn't moved quickly to expand that program and publicize it. I'm not sure they're aware how much the government of the day "owns" gas prices in voters' minds, right or wrong.

Yes. Horgan made some waffling comments on looking into the price of gas, which is silly IMO.

Maybe I'm biased, but it would be more consistent and in line with their CleanBC plans, if they announced more EV and charging subsidies in response to high gas prices.

[retro_orange]

Metro Vancouver gas is so expensive, someone drilled it out of this man’s tank


With Metro Vancouver gas prices hitting new highs, it appears some desperate people are hitting new lows in a bid to fill their tank.

In Maple Ridge, at least one resident says that took the form of a thief literally drilling into his gas tank to get at the fuel...

https://globalnews.ca/news/5194699/drill-gas-tank-record-price/

[retro_orange]

Competition Bureau mum on Metro Vancouver gas-price investigation

Francis Georgian / PNG
4-5 minutes



Prices across Metro Vancouver hit $1.73 per litre at many gas stations, with an absolute high of $1.79 per litre at one Delta location (which has since dropped its price to $1.74), according to crowdsourced reports to GasBuddy.com

Cracking down on gasoline price-fixing is a priority for Canada’s Competition Bureau, but the bureau, because of confidentiality concerns, can’t say whether or not it’s investigating what might be behind Metro Vancouver’s soaring fuel costs.

On Tuesday, Premier John Horgan called for consumer-protection officials to examine Metro’s soaring gas prices and said he would push Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to take action on what he has termed as “gouging” by fuel companies.

“We recognize that gasoline prices are an important issue for Canadians and cracking down on anticompetitive conduct in the gasoline sector is a priority for the Competition Bureau,” bureau spokesman Marcus Callaghan wrote in an emailed response to Postmedia News.

Prices across Metro hit $1.73 per litre at many gas stations, with an absolute high of $1.79 per litre at one Delta location (which has since dropped its price to $1.74), according to crowdsourced reports to GasBuddy.com.

Since 2008, the bureau has levelled $6 million in fines and conditional sentences to 33 individuals and 12 companies found to be manipulating gasoline prices, Callaghan said, but cautioned that “identical prices (being charged in a market) in and of themselves are not evidence of illegal activity.”

The bureau constantly monitors all consumer markets looking for signs that there is a lack of competition and manipulation of prices, said Jason Parent, vice-president of the fuel-industry consulting firm Kent Group, and charges are still not that common in the fuel market. Parent said the cases that do come to light often involve one or a few stations co-operating to maintain prices. Wider-scale collusion, however, has been more illusive to prove.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news...-metro-vancouver-gas-price-investigation

[SpongeG]

I was driving home last night from the movie in Vancouver and every gas station I passed around 10:00 pm had huge lineups cause gas was 159.9. One of the stations on Main and 41st had people blocking traffic in the street they were backed up so long.

Earlier in the day at an esso on grandview it was 171.9, across at superstore the sign said 163.9 and I go there and the pump was saying 159.9 and there wasn't much of a line

[whatnext]

LOL, you have to laugh at wacky Andrew Wilkinson's hypocrisy:

..“John Horgan and the NDP have been scrambling in the last few weeks with silly ideas about refineries, blaming oil companies, blaming the federal government,” Mr. Wilkinson said. “They need to stop blaming everybody but themselves and take action on the 35 cents of tax on every litre of fuel."..

Who does he think brought in all those gas taxes when they were in power for the past 16 years?

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Wow! That’s insnanse.

Just for an FYI average price of regular around here in Japan is 138¥ a liter. Essentially for all living purposes 1 yen is essentially 2 cent.

1 yen is 1.2 cents at current exchange rates, so 138yen is actually cheaper than here.

Originally Posted by retro_orange

https://globalnews.ca/news/5194699/drill-gas-tank-record-price/

Well that's just idiotic. A 30 cent change in gas prices is about a 15 dollar increase for a 50l tank. How is $15 worth robbing someone with a risk of blowing yourself up?

[SpongeG]

When I left Northern Alberta it was 145.9 if you add the taxes we have to pay here it would be over pushing 180 up there.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

1 yen is 1.2 cents at current exchange rates, so 138yen is actually cheaper than here.



Well that's just idiotic. A 30 cent change in gas prices is about a 15 dollar increase for a 50l tank. How is $15 worth robbing someone with a risk of blowing yourself up?

Same reason people strip copper wire even though they risk electrocuting themselves and copper wire is cheap.

Money is money at the end of the day and people have different concepts of what's worth their time/risk.

[s211]

Originally Posted by bluefox

Same reason people strip copper wire even though they risk electrocuting themselves and copper wire is cheap.

Money is money at the end of the day and people have different concepts of what's worth their time/risk.

And what is considered right and wrong. Two 100% honest real-life cases in point:

1) I confront a person trespassing in a house under construction in SE Vancouver, a guy who crawled through an open window frame. His response? If there's no window, it's not trespassing.

2) I confront a guy stealing money from a parking meter in front of my condo building. His response? He didn't jam the meter, therefore him taking the money isn't stealing.

Honest: these people truly think they're not doing wrong. They'll draw from any half-assed list of lame excuses.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

It's about 14% of the cost.

to be fair, the batteries don't last forever and they are expensive to replace. But the batteries are getting better and prices are coming down.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by djmk

to be fair, the batteries don't last forever and they are expensive to replace. But the batteries are getting better and prices are coming down.

There's already evidence to suggest an electric motor and drivetrain will last longer than the combustion equivalent. And yes, they are still getting better and cheaper.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by djmk

to be fair, the batteries don't last forever and they are expensive to replace.

There's at least one Prius taxi still running on its original battery with over a million kilometres on the clock. Fully electric cars coddle their batteries - they're nothing at all like the batteries in consumer products. EVs protect their batteries from extreme by never fully charging nor discharging them, and the better ones can heat or cool the battery to keep it within a comfortable temperature range.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by djmk

to be fair, the batteries don't last forever and they are expensive to replace. But the batteries are getting better and prices are coming down.

My Volt has zero signs of degradation at 97000 km.

[ilikeredheads]

I passed by 2 chevrons this evening that were jammed packed with cars because the price is 155.9.

People lining up for 155.9 gas.
155.9
smh

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

I passed by 2 chevrons this evening that were jammed packed with cars because the price is 155.9.

People lining up for 155.9 gas.
155.9
smh

I mean... consumers are largely zombies when it comes to this stuff, but this is precisely why the Competition Bureau needs to grow some cojones and actually investigate the way these companies are pricing retail fuel.

They're manipulating prices based on the time of day in a way no other region in Canada sees and by doing this, they're conditioning people to think 155.9 is cheap because they get used to the new higher price.

"Oh, what a relief, gas is coming back down, I can fill up again!" even though you're still paying a net 40 cents a litre more than you were 3 years ago at this time.

Add to that the fact that gas prices are 9-10 cents a litre more on average during the day (darn that daytime gas tax!) and it artificially changes consumer behaviour by making people wait til the evening so they can "save" a whopping $5 on their fill-up.

Competition Bureau: do your job.

[WarrenC12]

The fact that nobody can accurately explain the pricing of a very straightforward commodity says everything. It's fixed by those who are able to extract the most profit.

Demand for gasoline is fairly inelastic, but the option to go without it entirely (for personal use) via EVs, bikes, or rapid transit, continues to become a more viable option for more and more of the population.

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by bluefox

I mean... consumers are largely zombies when it comes to this stuff, but this is precisely why the Competition Bureau needs to grow some cojones and actually investigate the way these companies are pricing retail fuel.

They're manipulating prices based on the time of day in a way no other region in Canada sees and by doing this, they're conditioning people to think 155.9 is cheap because they get used to the new higher price.

"Oh, what a relief, gas is coming back down, I can fill up again!" even though you're still paying a net 40 cents a litre more than you were 3 years ago at this time.

Add to that the fact that gas prices are 9-10 cents a litre more on average during the day (darn that daytime gas tax!) and it artificially changes consumer behaviour by making people wait til the evening so they can "save" a whopping $5 on their fill-up.

Competition Bureau: do your job.

The issue is a lack of supply, especially supply from a lower cost region. See this from Marv Scaffer on the matter:

https://marvshaffer.blogspot.com/2019/04/more-refining-capacity-in-alberta-wont.html

The important bit:

The Premier’s call to build more refining capacity in Alberta clearly is not the answer. Firstly, Alberta will not support the construction of additional refining capacity in its province with all the financial and environmental costs that entails in order to address a gasoline pricing problem in BC. More importantly, building more refining capacity in Alberta won’t solve the problem. It isn’t a shortage of refined petroleum product supply in Alberta that is driving up prices in BC; the problem is constraints on the delivery of Alberta supply to BC.

For many years now, BC has relied on Alberta to meet much of its demand for gasoline and other refined petroleum products. It was more efficient for the oil companies to refine in large-scale Alberta facilities serving Western Canada and to ship the product to BC than to refine here. And what was good for the oil companies would have been good for BC consumers except for one very unfortunate fact. The price of gasoline and other refined petroleum products in BC is not based on the cost of refining in Alberta plus shipping to BC. Rather, it is based on the much higher cost of supply from the major alternative source of supply for BC consumers – deliveries from Puget Sound refiners.

Puget Sound only supplies a small proportion of the gasoline and other refined petroleum product requirements in the province, but it is what economists call the ‘marginal source of supply’ – the source BC has to turn to when Alberta supply plus the limited local production is not sufficient to meet provincial requirements. Because Puget Sound refiners are the marginal source of supply, they effectively set the market price. Shippers from Alberta can charge the delivered Puget Sound price, even if it is well above their own cost, because they are still competitive with the only available alternative. And Puget Sound is the only available alternative because of limited pipeline capacity for additional deliveries from Alberta.

That Alberta supply (and the relatively small amount produced in BC) sells well above its cost is very evident from the data on refining and marketing margins in BC versus elsewhere in Western Canada. The refining and marketing margin indicates the difference between the before-tax selling price of gasoline and the cost of crude oil – it is a measure of the gross profit from sales. The margin the oil companies realized from gasoline sales in Vancouver in March 2019 (when gasoline prices averaged a mere $1.50 per litre) was 54 cents/litre, some 20 cents per litre higher than the margin for sales in Calgary and Winnipeg which were 33 cents and 34 cents respectively.

Puget Sound wouldn’t be the price-setting marginal source of supply for BC if there was sufficient pipeline capacity available for gasoline and refined petroleum product deliveries from Alberta. But, as we know from another story, pipeline capacity is limited and efforts to increase capacity have been frustrated by BC government, First Nation and other opposition.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

The issue is a lack of supply, especially supply from a lower cost region. See this from Marv Scaffer on the matter:

https://marvshaffer.blogspot.com/2019/04/more-refining-capacity-in-alberta-wont.html

The important bit:

That doesn't directly explain why there is such a variation between stations in Metro Vancouver, not only spatially (when a station down the street is 15 cents a liter cheaper than another station) but temporally (when the price at 2am is 15 cents cheaper than the price at 2pm).

In that quote, "oil companies" are not the same as "gas station companies", right?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

The issue is a lack of supply, especially supply from a lower cost region. See this from Marv Scaffer on the matter:

https://marvshaffer.blogspot.com/2019/04/more-refining-capacity-in-alberta-wont.html

The important bit:

And who do they think closed the other refineries we had? Those big oil companies were the ones who made the decision to shutter three Vancouver refineries so they could supply product out of Alberta. And now people believe those same big oil companies when they say will happily supply more to BC if the Transmountain expansion goes through? Their stated goal for TMX is to have access to alternative markets, aka Asia. That does no good for BC and will in fact drive up prices further.