Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[BGMOne]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Welcome to the forum. There was talk of a SeaBus to Ambleside, but that hasn't gone anywhere since.

Thanks for the welcome. I wonder now that the NS roads come almost to a stand still during rush if they'll reconsider doing a project like that some time in the future. It doesn't seem that crazy of an idea to me. Could serve as a good western terminus for the B-Line, if West Van ends up going through with the B-Line plan.

[Dengler Avenue]

Except right now it’s not. B-Line’s just gonna end at Park Royal.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

No B-Line past Park Royal for now. Disappointing, BUT not entirely:

TBH, I agree about the bad communications part- I originally thought it was removing a lane of driving when the B-line was first proposed.

Also, lol: “West Vancouver is a welcoming and caring community and we’ve come across as somewhat parochial and not the way I think we truly are. We are inextricably part of the region. We can’t divorce ourselves from the region. We can’t see ourselves as an island.”
I don't think a lot of your residents agree...

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Forget B Line lite, just leave WV to their own and terminate the B line at Park Royal.

I'm definitely never listening to any westvanner complain about traffic at Marine and Taylor Way again, it's their problem now.

They made their bed now they can sleep in it.

This is what happens when you sacrifice accessibility for a couple of parking stalls.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Welcome to the forum. There was talk of a SeaBus to Ambleside, but that hasn't gone anywhere since.

I've been trying to find a source for that claim, but I haven't seen anything.

Originally Posted by BGMOne

Thanks for the welcome. I wonder now that the NS roads come almost to a stand still during rush if they'll reconsider doing a project like that some time in the future. It doesn't seem that crazy of an idea to me. Could serve as a good western terminus for the B-Line, if West Van ends up going through with the B-Line plan.

Seems like a long-term dead-end, though, not to mention they'd have to deal with port congestion trying to pass through the 1st Narrows. Also, if you're going to reject a B-line, no one's going to let a Seabus go through. Ambleside's beaches aren't exactly a dead-zone, after all.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by BGMOne

This is a bit off topic, but still relates to congestion on the North Shore. I was wondering whether anyone knows if Translink or any of the North Shore municipalities have proposed building another Seabus terminal elsewhere on the North Shore, in order to possibly relieve pressure on the two crossings and the current Seabus. I mean it seems to me like a cheaper and easier option to implement than say, another Skytrain line to the NS or another crossing. At least for the meantime until something like that could be built.

Whatever that North Shore Transit commission looked at it but I think they said it wasn't viable. They're better off removing North Van buses using the Lions Gate bridge and moving those people onto the SeaBus then trying to do a SeaBus to Ambleside.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Whatever that North Shore Transit commission looked at it but I think they said it wasn't viable. They're better off removing North Van buses using the Lions Gate bridge and moving those people onto the SeaBus then trying to do a SeaBus to Ambleside.

Source?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Also, lol: “West Vancouver is a welcoming and caring community and we’ve come across as somewhat parochial and not the way I think we truly are. We are inextricably part of the region. We can’t divorce ourselves from the region. We can’t see ourselves as an island.”
I don't think a lot of your residents agree...

I mean LBF, the photo for the article is literally three millennial girls supporting the B-Line; there were people who wanted it or at least didn't care, but the rich retired WASPies were louder. It's TransLink's job to drag those asshats kicking and screaming into this century on their behalf.

Originally Posted by fredinno

Source?

Here.

The report recommends a reassessment of the feasibility of new passenger-only ferry services. This is effectively an update of a 2004 study, which found that there were significant challenges to create a feasible ferry service. Issues identified at the time included high fuel costs, development of suitable docking facilities, and poor connections with existing transit services.

One of the routes examined in the study was a ferry service between Ambleside Pier in West Vancouver and Jericho Pier in the Vancouver Westside.

“Municipal partners expressed interest in exploring the idea of expanding the use of passenger ferries to provide more options for crossing Burrard Inlet, particularly in the event of incidents that preclude the use of the bridges,” the report continues.

The ferry and/or Seabus proposals were ten years before that... granted, it's incredibly difficult to find anything from before 2014 these days. I believe the consensus at the time was that buses across the Lions Gate would be as fast or faster.

[lokyin]

Ambleside passenger ferry isn't possible, cuz its catchment area on the north shore wouldn't be big. The ferry would be too far from existing infrastructure (even from Park Royal, it'd be a 10 minute walk) and we don't funnel transit there. A seabus here won't serve the purposes of other north shore residents. Also, West Van is not dense enough, low demand. Unless West Van changes its mind about B-Line and allows much higher residential density at Ambleside area, it won't be feasible.

As for other seabus locations, considering much of the north shore coastline between Lions Gate & Ironworkers is largely industrial, the only possible point I can think of is Harbourside, but it's too far from the Marine Drive artery to create a catchment.

Below are District of North Vancouver's planned/developing town centers. Lynn Creek and Lions Gate villages will be the 2 tall-condo clusters (after Lonsdale). Since the INSTPP study finds north shore residents mostly go to/from Vancouver (vs other parts of metro van), we should plan to serve these town centers to/from van. Routing from these 2 to Lonsdale Quay then onwards to go downtown is not time-effective, and they're not near the shore for a ferry, so I think a B-Line to downtown from these 2 nodes would be most effective and realistic.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by lokyin

Below are District of North Vancouver's planned/developing town centers. Lynn Creek and Lions Gate villages will be the 2 tall-condo clusters (after Lonsdale). Since the INSTPP study finds north shore residents mostly go to/from Vancouver (vs other parts of metro van), we should plan to serve these town centers to/from van. Routing from these 2 to Lonsdale Quay then onwards to go downtown is not time-effective, and they're not near the shore for a ferry, so I think a B-Line to downtown from these 2 nodes would be most effective and realistic.

That Lions Gate B-Line sounds like a no-go - it'll be sitting on Marine and Georgia for at least half an hour. Lynn Creek maybe, but only with bus lanes.

[lokyin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

That Lions Gate B-Line sounds like a no-go - it'll be sitting on Marine and Georgia for at least half an hour. Lynn Creek maybe, but only with bus lanes.

That's true about Lions Gate B-Line stagnating on West Georgia. There's only a bus-lane for westbound Georgia but not eastbound haha...

But I think the Marine side is ok. The village is at Capilano Rd & Marine Dr, and there's a bus-only lane all the way from Capilano Rd to the bridgehead already.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://imgur.com/a/uKnai4H

It was my last time taking the 408 for the next while as I'm heading back to GTA, which, unfortunately, means that I'm switching back to driving around.

I've got to say that transit improvement in Richmond has been impressive. To me (and many who live on Garden City Road south of Cook Road and on No. 1 Road), it means a lot that splitting the original 401 ONE ROAD/GARDEN CITY allows both 401 and 408 to come every 20 minutes even on Sundays and holidays. (I just think 408 should come every 20 minutes between 9 am and 7 pm on weekends, though.) I'm also pretty stoked to hear that 301 will be more frequent on Saturdays soon (then Sundays, later on).

I wonder how ridership pattern will be like when Translink keeps the 405 on No. 5 Road, reroutes 407 onto Lansdowne Road and terminates it at Bridgeport Station.

Additionally, is it in the 10-year plan to straighten the 402 as well? I would think it's a good idea to extend it to Bridgeport Station via BCIT and form an alternating 15-minute frequency with the 412 between those 2 places in the middle of weekdays.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Some good news, for a change (link).

TransLink expanding retail real estate program

TransLink is welcoming new retailers to its SkyTrain stations for the first time in eight years. A&W is one of the latest to open locations at Main Street-Science World SkyTrain station.

TransLink’s retail Real Estate program is currently generating about $500,000 per year in non-fare revenue, a figure which is expected to double over the next five years. This growing revenue stream is offsetting costs for TransLink customers while making the most of the assets we already have. Retail locations are being added as part of ongoing renovations, while station footprints remain the same.

Advantages associated with expanding the retail real estate program are not only financial:
- Several retailers on SkyTrain property are open 24/7, lending the extra feeling of safety a constant human presence provides.
- Demand for space has been strong, meaning TransLink can select retailers customers already enjoy.
- Placing retail at SkyTrain stations allows customers to find what they need without veering from their usual route.

What you see today is just the beginning. There is potential to add retailers as we continue renovations along the Expo Line. Paying for your purchases at retailers on TransLink property could become easier thanks to the Compass program. We could one day see customers pay with the same card they’re using to tap in and out of the transit system.

Quick Facts:
- TransLink re-launched its retail real estate program in 2014.
- Nine retailers operate on TransLink property now.
- TransLink currently manages just over 10,000 square feet of retail space.
- It’s expected there will be nearly 17,000 square feet of retail space on TransLink property by 2022.

[GeeCee]

Seems like a bit of an odd choice given that 20% of their current units are empty.

Edit: Coconut's press release is from 2017!

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Seems like a bit of an odd choice given that 20% of their current units are empty.

Edit: Coconut's press release is from 2017!

From your article:

While Drews acknowledges the fact many potential tenants are put off by the fact available retail spaces are in fare paid zones, she says any Compass Card holder can currently tap into a station and stay for up to 20 minutes for free before tapping out at the same station.

I never knew this bit of info and i doubt many others do either. Any store that does decide to open in a fare paid zone should make note of this in advertising and in store etc.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Huh. Well, that's good to know.

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Seems like a bit of an odd choice given that 20% of their current units are empty.

Edit: Coconut's press release is from 2017!

(facepalm) And that is the last time I try to Google a source other than DailyHive without coffee. I believe your CTV article covers the same story.

Good news. For real this time.

Metro Vancouver’s public transit authority is in the process of refreshing its retail spaces found at SkyTrain stations.

TransLink says improvements are being made at some vacant units, and it is taking the opportunity to add new retail spaces through station renovation projects.

In an email, TransLink spokesperson Jill Drews said the spaces in the older stations are currently not suitable for the type of tenants they hope to attract, as these spaces were designed for smaller corner store-style businesses.

“These shops once populated the system but have dropped away due to legal requirements prohibiting sales of tobacco on provincial property,” she said.

“We are renovating some older locations to suit the needs of a wider range of potential tenants. This includes improving electrical and plumbing to accommodate food service retailers.”

However, some of the newer retail spaces have also suffered from prolonged vacancies, with businesses struggling to survive — particularly retail spaces within Canada Line stations.

Most recently, the INS Market convenience store tucked away inside the fare paid zone of Yaletown-Roundhouse Station was forcibly shuttered in early-March — after less than a year of business and just a few weeks after escalator construction began in front of the store’s entrance. Legal letters posted on the window of the closed store stated the franchisees missed two consecutive monthly rent payments.

Just half of the Jugo Juice locations that opened inside the underground stations of the Canada Line as part of a multi-station lease deal have survived. Earlier in the decade, franchisees behind the failed juice outlet locations even resorted to legal action against Jugo Juice for allegedly promising retail spaces outside of the fare paid zone, amongst a number of complaints brought to court.

A retail unit hidden away in a corner at the Olympic Village Station’s mezzanine level, beyond the fare paid zone, remains unleased because of its extremely poor visibility.

Some of SkyTrain’s most successful retail spaces have been units located outside of the fare paid zone. For instance, the new Starbucks, Tim Hortons, and A&W are thriving within the street front units of the upgraded Main Street-Science World Station.

In 2017, coinciding with the completion of the renovations to Main Street-Science World Station, TransLink stated at the time that it managed over 10,000-sq-ft of combined retail space, generating about $500,000 annually.

On many subway systems in Asia, retail spaces are well-supported by the sheer number of passenger foot traffic volumes that flow through stations. But even with the ridership, retail spaces in Hong Kong, Singapore, and Shanghai are generally located within highly visible and found outside of the fare paid zones — in areas such as the perimeter of the concourses, just outside the fare gates.

Despite the relatively limited scale of SkyTrain’s retail program, especially when compared against Asian systems, the revenue generated from businesses has created a growing source of supplementary revenue to help cover operational costs.

Revenue from retail leasing grew sharply to $800,000 annually in 2018, and this figure is expected to climb to $1 million in 2022 when the public transit authority’s combined retail area grows to 17,000-sq-ft.

Drews notes that placing retail at SkyTrain stations not only provides added convenience for passengers, as they no longer need to veer from their usual route, but it also gives the system more eyeballs, which effectively creates a greater sense of security.

[ilikeredheads]

They need to focus on putting retail space OUTSIDE of the fare zone. People are not going to skytrain station just to shop. Most purchases will be the on-the-go type.

This is one of the reasons why retail space in HK's MTR are successful. They aren't inside the fare zone.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

They need to focus on putting retail space OUTSIDE of the fare zone. People are not going to skytrain station just to shop. Most purchases will be the on-the-go type.

This is one of the reasons why retail space in HK's MTR are successful. They aren't inside the fare zone.

Maybe they can replace the excess platform/track at Stadium-Chinatown into a retail space?

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Maybe they can replace the excess platform/track at Stadium-Chinatown into a retail space?

Not going to happen since the 3rd platform is used for training, testing, and reserved for emergencies.

The reality is that the retail space needs to be outside the fare zone to succeed but the problem is that the vast majority of the stations in our system is either too small to fit them or not designed for them in the first place, especially the non-underground stations. This mean it'll require significant expansions/rennovations. IMO, they should start small and test with some small kiosk style businesses first. Those spaces inside the fare zone in the Canada Line are a lost cause at this point.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

The reality is that the retail space needs to be outside the fare zone to succeed but the problem is that the vast majority of the stations in our system is either too small to fit them or not designed for them in the first place, especially the non-underground stations. This mean it'll require significant expansions/rennovations. IMO, they should start small and test with some small kiosk style businesses first. Those spaces inside the fare zone in the Canada Line are a lost cause at this point.

There's plenty of on-the-go traffic, though. I think the problem is more to do with a lack of units or unit space, and a limited tenant pool: those tiny, solitary Canada Line stores are usually Jugo Juices, and that's not a very big franchise to begin with. If the Broadway extension comes with 3-4 units per station and manages to pull in, let's say, Starbucks or 7/11, I think we'd see more success.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

There's plenty of on-the-go traffic, though. I think the problem is more to do with a lack of units or unit space, and a limited tenant pool: those tiny, solitary Canada Line stores are usually Jugo Juices, and that's not a very big franchise to begin with. If the Broadway extension comes with 3-4 units per station and manages to pull in, let's say, Starbucks or 7/11, I think we'd see more success.

I've wondered if they could fit a convenience store in the open space under the tracks next to 22nd St Station. They could easily fit a bike room in there but I'd like to see them make more use of the space (the newest image is from 2016).

[officedweller]

I was also thinking that the vacant retail spaces behind the gates could also be renovated for bike rooms, which would still provide some income and be more secure than outside the gates - the only problem is that you don't know availability until you're inside the gates.