OC Transpo

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by roger1818

When Stage 2 is completed, the need for HC buses will be further reduced (due to shorter routes) and they can retire the (older) D60LFs. When the (newer) D60LFRs reach end of life, they can be replaced by a mixture of 40' and articulated buses (depending on the needs at the time), but that likely won't be until 2030.

Buses only last about 15 years. The D60LFR's will need to be replaced beginning in around 2025.

That situation is probably worse than others because they accepted 306 new articulated buses over the span of a single year instead of over many. They'll either need to start replacing some of them before the end of the D60LFR's lifespans, or somehow deal with maintaining the existing buses long enough to implement a rolling replacement schedule for the future.

Sure, they may not need as many articulated buses in the future, but it will be interesting to see how they handle that situation.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Yes. The issue is somewhere in Manotick.
The 106 and 45 may also fall into this category because of the overhangs on Ring Road.

There are a significant number of routes that can't handle Double Deckers right now. You'll never see one on the 7 for example.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Buses only last about 15 years. The D60LFR's will need to be replaced beginning in around 2025.

You are right. My bad. It accelerates when they need to replace them as I described above, but my point still stands since the vast majority (if not all) of Stage 2 should be complete prior to the need to replace the articulated buses.

That situation is probably worse than others because they accepted 306 new articulated buses over the span of a single year instead of over many. They'll either need to start replacing some of them before the end of the D60LFR's lifespans, or somehow deal with maintaining the existing buses long enough to implement a rolling replacement schedule for the future.

Sure, they may not need as many articulated buses in the future, but it will be interesting to see how they handle that situation.

It will be interesting to see how they handle it. The good news is their replacement lines up pretty well with a drastic reduction of the number of HC buses they need. They will certainly need to put in a large order but my gut feeling says they will need half as many articulated buses compared to the 359 (D60LF and D60LFR) they have today (so under 200 total). They could potentially spread that over 2 years.

Now if Stage 2 West ends up running significantly behind schedule, they may end up having to push the service life of their existing buses.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Catenary

There are a significant number of routes that can't handle Double Deckers right now. You'll never see one on the 7 for example.

Is this because of some of the wires on Sunnyside?

[Truenorth00]

Stage 2 isn't going to displace as many buses as people think. Maybe another 200-300. That still means a shortfall of 300 buses on order.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Is this because of some of the wires on Sunnyside?

I believe there are issues on Grove, but I could be wrong. It's definitely in that area. Beechwood is an issue as well.

Another issue is Grandview. Regular buses barely fit under some of the wires there, but demand there is pretty weak for high capacity service.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Stage 2 isn't going to displace as many buses as people think. Maybe another 200-300. That still means a shortfall of 300 buses on order.

So you are under the belief that OC Transpo don’t plan to buy any more buses over the next decade?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

So you are under the belief that OC Transpo don’t plan to buy any more buses over the next decade?

I can only go off what I see. And I get the feeling they've been so consumed on the LRT that this might be a sleeper issue. They might not be planning bus retirements with a serious strategy.

Far easier to abuse buses. What's more bus cancellations?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I can only go off what I see. And I get the feeling they've been so consumed on the LRT that this might be a sleeper issue. They might not be planning bus retirements with a serious strategy.

Far easier to abuse buses. What's more bus cancellations?

Given the horrible press OC Transpo has been receiving about bus cancellations, I don't see counsel letting them keep up the trend.

Going back to your original post:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I can never understand why they don't consider long rolling orders. With the 82 diesel buses they just ordered. And the 180 bus reduction from Stage 1, they should be launching a 600 bus multi-year (say 7-10 years) procurement contract for renewal. Put out a large tender like that and they'd get great discounts with pledge for rolling upgrades.

The short (4 year) election cycle makes that long a contract not feasible. As OCCheetos previously said, OC Transpo has a 4 year plan to replace their fleet of 40 foot buses:

As part of our 2018 budget, we will be adding a total of 82 Nova Low Floor Series (LFS) buses to our fleet starting April 3, 2019. In order to improve our services, we continue to invest in and modernize our buses. This is the first step in replacing a total of 320 buses over the next four years as part of our regular lifecycle replacement program.

from: http://www.octranspo.com/about-octranspo/news#news-239634

2018 being an election year, counsel could only promise money for 2019. Now they can look at money for 2020-2022 to finish the order.

This is the imminent need. Once this is complete, they will then look at replacing the articulated buses. They can't get assurance for money for that until after the election in 2022 though.

[HighwayStar]

In the past week I've taken the Transitway to/from downtown about a 1/2 dozen times. In every single case, the announcements on the bus have been one station off... i.e. heading west, "Westboro" is announced at "Tunneys Pasture"... and east "LeBreton" is announced at "Bayview".

This is when the bus is at a full station stop.. i.e. I could see if it was to announce the next stop.. but that is not the case.

This is independent of route... it happens on all buses. Nasty for tourists.

Whats going on? and why can't this be fixed?

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

In the past week I've taken the Transitway to/from downtown about a 1/2 dozen times. In every single case, the announcements on the bus have been one station off... i.e. heading west, "Westboro" is announced at "Tunneys Pasture"... and east "LeBreton" is announced at "Bayview".

This is when the bus is at a full station stop.. i.e. I could see if it was to announce the next stop.. but that is not the case.

This is independent of route... it happens on all buses. Nasty for tourists.

Whats going on? and why can't this be fixed?

It's been going on a long time and can be very annoying when you're not quite paying attention... to hear "walkley" (where I should be getting off), only to look up and realize the bus is at heron.

I think the issue is the buses are supposed to be announcing the next stop as they leave the precious station (to give passengers time to get to the door and sort themselves out), but the GPS "trigger" point is set too close to the station so it gets triggered as the bus pulls in to the station rather than as it pulls out.

Not sure though, and they don't seem capable or willing to fix it. I thought it was going to be improved after they got fined for the announcement system not working, but nope

[pveezy]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

My point here is that you don't get large discounts by doing piecemeal replacements of 80 here, 70 there. That's a sub-par acquisition strategy. Especially when you can forecast exactly what your replacement cycle is and you can reasonably budget for the years to come.

That is a good point in general but I don’t think it applies to the current Novabus purchasing plans. These current small orders are part of the larger standing Metrolinx Procurement Initiative, so I think regardless of how many OC Transpo orders specifically, they are part of a much larger negotiated group of orders from 15 other Ontario transit agencies. I am not an expert but I think all members get a special bulk price as part of that program, as if they were ordering as 1 massive order.

https://blog.metrolinx.com/2018/05/01/on...-buying-buses-through-metrolinx-program/

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

It's been going on a long time and can be very annoying when you're not quite paying attention... to hear "walkley" (where I should be getting off), only to look up and realize the bus is at heron.

I think the issue is the buses are supposed to be announcing the next stop as they leave the precious station (to give passengers time to get to the door and sort themselves out), but the GPS "trigger" point is set too close to the station so it gets triggered as the bus pulls in to the station rather than as it pulls out.

Not sure though, and they don't seem capable or willing to fix it. I thought it was going to be improved after they got fined for the announcement system not working, but nope

Is it just me, or does anybody else find this remarkably bush-league for a "world class" transit system ???

Can you imagine station names being off by one in London, New York, Toronto... or anywhere else for that matter.

Won't someone please think of the Tourists ??

[JHikka]

I find the station trigger particularly bad on the SW transitway from Lycee to South Keys, but only when heading south. When buses are heading north this problem doesn't seem to exist. Otherwise I don't think the rest of the transitway has this issue (the Western transitway from Bay to Baseline seems to work flawlessly for this, at least IMO).

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Is it just me, or does anybody else find this remarkably bush-league for a "world class" transit system ???

Can you imagine station names being off by one in London, New York, Toronto... or anywhere else for that matter.

Won't someone please think of the Tourists ??

It happens in other cities too. I have even been in metros with announcements off by one stop.

[TransitZilla]

There is a "Ready for Rail Information Session" tonight in Orleans if anyone is interested.

https://lauradudas.ca/ready-for-rail-information-session/

I'd like someone to ask about route 39 but I don't think I can make it.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

There is a "Ready for Rail Information Session" tonight in Orleans if anyone is interested.

https://lauradudas.ca/ready-for-rail-information-session/

I'd like someone to ask about route 39 but I don't think I can make it.

I ended up going for about an hour tonight.

There was some "interesting" discussion... some folks were very concerned that "their" local buses would fill up at Blair with folks getting off at Place d'Orleans (some were aggressive and downright rude). I can see their concern but I can't see anyway around it until Stage 2 is complete, or unless Connexion buses were priced higher.

I spoke to a transit planner who indicated that while the schedules on the Ready for Rail travel planner are not final, the schedule for route 39 is accurate, so there will only be 30 minute off-peak service between Blair and Trim (compared to every 15 minutes today). I think it is ridiculous that we would cut service frequency on a route that will be upgraded to LRT in a few years; she would only say that they will monitor demand.

Regarding DND at Carling, she indicated the transit ridership is not very good today. They will be apparently adding an earlier PM trip on route 66 and shifting the frequency earlier in the PM peak to address concerns that most of the DND workforce has an earlier schedule and that the demand is early int the PM peak.

[Dundas]

OC Transpo is refurbishing some of their buses. 40 footers have been in the works for some time and now they are starting on some 60 footers. New engine, transmission, floor, new seat cushions, new glossier red paint, etc, etc. If you take the bus you'll notice one right away with the nice dark blue seat cushions compared to a regular bus that are all worn and faded. This means that it's adding a few years to the buses life cycle.

The 2019 draft budget will be considered at City Council on Wednesday, March 6.

Enhancing transit service

Highlights of the draft budget include:

$5.1M per year in additional funding for investments to enhance transit service in communities across the city;

Funding to purchase 12 new buses and replace 79 buses that have reached the end of their life-cycle;

Refurbishment of existing buses to keep them in good condition for customers;

Bus stops, shelters and customer improvements at Transitway and O-Train stations;

Traffic studies to improve the reliability of transit services and reduce operating costs;
Increasing call centre staffing for Para Transpo to improve customer experience;

A fare freeze until July 1, 2019, at which point a proposed 2.5 percent increase to transit fares would take effect;
and
Seniors 65 and over travel for free on Sundays in addition to Wednesdays, beginning on July 1, 2019.

https://ottawa.ca/en/news/transit-commission-approves-oc-transpos-2019-draft-budget

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Dundas

OC Transpo is refurbishing some of their buses. 40 footers have been in the works for some time and now they are starting on some 60 footers. New engine, transmission, floor, new seat cushions, new glossier red paint, etc, etc. If you take the bus you'll notice one right away with the nice dark blue seat cushions compared to a regular bus that are all worn and faded. This means that it's adding a few years to the buses life cycle.



https://ottawa.ca/en/news/transit-commission-approves-oc-transpos-2019-draft-budget

40 foot refurbishments were completed a few months ago. 60 footers were started late last year but were apparently put on hold (to avoid bus shortages I imagine).

[Gat-Train]

Just keep raising the price while providing worse service

I’ve taken OC Transpo my entire life; my family didn’t have a car for much of my childhood and my husband and I still don’t have a car now. I’m an avid transit user and I remember what Ottawa’s transit system looked like when it worked.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/column...transpo-working-for-its-passengers-again