Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by CyrusKafaiwu

Regarding the washrooms, from what I remember, they were required to exist as terminus station and major transfer stations (rail to rail) in new construction mandated by an accessibility act in Ontario.

The fact that hurdman got one seems like goodwill. The rest are just required by law and the city is complying

Place d'Orleans and arguably Lincoln Fields also don't fit that definition.

I also remember a lot of debate on Bayview, which is surrounded by empty fields. Considering the nature of the Trillium, not sure that was built based on regulations.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Place d'Orleans and arguably Lincoln Fields also don't fit that definition.

I also remember a lot of debate on Bayview, which is surrounded by empty fields. Considering the nature of the Trillium, not sure that was built based on regulations.

Good Day.

Place d'Orleans was to have been the terminus of the -affordable- eastern expansion....
the Fed/Prov top-up expanded that to Trim, and the decision was to leave the washrooms in the design.

LincolnFields was deemed a major transfer point -
West to Bayshore, then Moodie, and eventually to TerryFox and ultimately to Stittsville, and
SouthWest to Baseline/Algonquin, and eventually to Fallowfield, Market, and JockRiver, and
East.
So, like Bayview - East, West, South..

Hurdman was rated a major transfer point, even if not rail (ie: the SouthEast T-Way, plus feeders), and so was included.

All around, not bad at all.

[sseguin]

Just posted a new Snapshot update for Lees, uOttawa, Pimisi and Bayview. 
https://www.otrainfans.ca/blogs/snapshot-of-lees-uottawa-pimisi-and-bayview-stations-april-13-2019

Our first Video Snapshot was also published on Youtube, you can find it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2EnbFgUfiU

[TheMatth69]

I like to compare Ottawa's LRT Phase 1 construction with a very very similar LRT construction that is happening in Nice, France. Why? A LOT of similarities: underground stations, Citadis Trains, same length, replaces an old BRT corridor and a major construction challenge complicating the whole project.
Let's take that deeper:

Ottawa Phase 1 :
Length: 12,5km
Cost: 2,1 Billion $
Cost per Kilometer: 168M$
Stations: 13 (4 underground)
Train type: Citadis Spirit (Never rolled before *World first*)
Construction Timeline: Construction Start (2013), Transitway conversion (April-2015) - End of construction (June 2019)
Delay: 1 year (mostly due to sinkhole)
Major construction challenge: Winter

Nice LRT Line 2:
Length: 11,3km
Cost : 1,13 Billion $ (750M€)
Cost per Kilometer: 106M$
Stations: 20 (4 underground)
Train Type: Citadis X05 (uses rechargeable batteries on surface section *World first*)
Construction timeline: Construction start (Late-2014), Bus corridor conversion (2015), Tunnel digging start (2016), Surface section opening for service (2017), Tunnel section (September-2019).
Delay: 1 Year (due to Archeological search in the underground section)
Major construction challenge: High Density (5000/km2), historic buildings around the line.


The purpose of this comparison is to see how two cities building almost the same type of system, handle completely differently their construction timeline...
- You can see that Nice has decided to open the surface section before the tunnel section (2017) ... meaning it only took them 2 years to convert the bus corridor into an LRT. It took us in Ottawa more then 3 years to do the same.
- Tunnel digging is taking them 3 years including station construction, it took us 5 to do the same.
- Nice is using a brand-new type of Citadis with a technology never tested before (Rechargeable batteries) trains are certified and are rolling since 2017. In Ottawa trains are being tested since 2016 and all of them aren't certified yet.
- No report of tunnel leaks in Nice, many in Ottawa.
- Overall construction is taking them 5 years, it's taking us 7.
- Nice is a MUCH denser city then Ottawa, meaning smaller operational space for construction... yet they are taking less time to build their LRT.
- Their system is 1,1 Billion cheaper, yet being in a much denser and older city...

I don't want to call Ottawa an amateur city but it's really taking the shape of it. It really bugs me... and if Nice didn't have their 1 year delay, they would've finished their LRT in 4 years. It's quite frustrating, and a shame for the national capital of a country like Canada to be anable to construct a 12km LRT system in a reasonable amount of time and wihout any construction issues...

[greenday38]

I rode part of Nice's new tram line last September to get from my Fabron area Aibnb and the St.Augustin train station. OMG was it ever slow! You could see many 10kph speed signs. The problem is it is in an area dense with pedestrians and at- grade intersections. There are no fences to keep pedestrians out of the ROW. If Ottawa ever implements a similar system along Carling or Baseline please just shoot me now. The Confederation line is basically a full metro line with short platforms and parts exposed to the weather. It must cost more to build. Hopefully Nice's tunnel section will run faster since it will be fully grade separated.
Have a nice day!

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

I like to compare Ottawa's LRT Phase 1 construction with a very very similar LRT construction that is happening in Nice, France. Why? A LOT of similarities: underground stations, Citadis Trains, same length, replaces an old BRT corridor and a major construction challenge complicating the whole project.
Let's take that deeper:

Ottawa Phase 1 :
Length: 12,5km
Cost: 2,1 Billion $
Cost per Kilometer: 168M$
Stations: 13 (4 underground)
Train type: Citadis Spirit (Never rolled before *World first*)
Construction Timeline: Construction Start (2013), Transitway conversion (April-2015) - End of construction (June 2019)
Delay: 1 year (mostly due to sinkhole)
Major construction challenge: Winter

Nice LRT Line 2:
Length: 11,3km
Cost : 1,13 Billion $ (750M€)
Cost per Kilometer: 106M$
Stations: 20 (4 underground)
Train Type: Citadis X05 (uses rechargeable batteries on surface section *World first*)
Construction timeline: Construction start (Late-2014), Bus corridor conversion (2015), Tunnel digging start (2016), Surface section opening for service (2017), Tunnel section (September-2019).
Delay: 1 Year (due to Archeological search in the underground section)
Major construction challenge: High Density (5000/km2), historic buildings around the line.


The purpose of this comparison is to see how two cities building almost the same type of system, handle completely differently their construction timeline...
- You can see that Nice has decided to open the surface section before the tunnel section (2017) ... meaning it only took them 2 years to convert the bus corridor into an LRT. It took us in Ottawa more then 3 years to do the same.
- Tunnel digging is taking them 3 years including station construction, it took us 5 to do the same.
- Nice is using a brand-new type of Citadis with a technology never tested before (Rechargeable batteries) trains are certified and are rolling since 2017. In Ottawa trains are being tested since 2016 and all of them aren't certified yet.
- No report of tunnel leaks in Nice, many in Ottawa.
- Overall construction is taking them 5 years, it's taking us 7.
- Nice is a MUCH denser city then Ottawa, meaning smaller operational space for construction... yet they are taking less time to build their LRT.
- Their system is 1,1 Billion cheaper, yet being in a much denser and older city...

I don't want to call Ottawa an amateur city but it's really taking the shape of it. It really bugs me... and if Nice didn't have their 1 year delay, they would've finished their LRT in 4 years. It's quite frustrating, and a shame for the national capital of a country like Canada to be anable to construct a 12km LRT system in a reasonable amount of time and wihout any construction issues...

That's an apples and oranges comparison. There's a difference in the way Ottawa was built versus underground trams in say Nice, Rouen and Vienna. Underground trams are still usually operated in at a much lower operational speed, and the tunnels make much sharper turns. Ride the green line in Boston for a relatively close example. Ours has an 80km/h operational speed, which changes how it's constructed.

The citadis can make much sharper turns then we're allowing, which means they could have cheapened the tunnel by not building the big two block curve at Rideau, or leaving the original curvature at Tremblay, but they made the curves much larger so that the trains could still move at high speeds.

Watch how the Rouen trams enter their stations

https://youtu.be/BUMDllgebEs

And then look at your own video. You can see the speed difference.

https://youtu.be/4UWL91F6Yz8

[daud]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

I like to compare Ottawa's LRT Phase 1 construction with a very very similar LRT construction that is happening in Nice, France. Why? A LOT of similarities: underground stations, Citadis Trains, same length, replaces an old BRT corridor and a major construction challenge complicating the whole project.
Let's take that deeper:

Ottawa Phase 1 :
Length: 12,5km
Cost: 2,1 Billion $
Cost per Kilometer: 168M$
Stations: 13 (4 underground)
Train type: Citadis Spirit (Never rolled before *World first*)
Construction Timeline: Construction Start (2013), Transitway conversion (April-2015) - End of construction (June 2019)
Delay: 1 year (mostly due to sinkhole)
Major construction challenge: Winter

Nice LRT Line 2:
Length: 11,3km
Cost : 1,13 Billion $ (750M€)
Cost per Kilometer: 106M$
Stations: 20 (4 underground)
Train Type: Citadis X05 (uses rechargeable batteries on surface section *World first*)
Construction timeline: Construction start (Late-2014), Bus corridor conversion (2015), Tunnel digging start (2016), Surface section opening for service (2017), Tunnel section (September-2019).
Delay: 1 Year (due to Archeological search in the underground section)
Major construction challenge: High Density (5000/km2), historic buildings around the line.


The purpose of this comparison is to see how two cities building almost the same type of system, handle completely differently their construction timeline...
- You can see that Nice has decided to open the surface section before the tunnel section (2017) ... meaning it only took them 2 years to convert the bus corridor into an LRT. It took us in Ottawa more then 3 years to do the same.
- Tunnel digging is taking them 3 years including station construction, it took us 5 to do the same.
- Nice is using a brand-new type of Citadis with a technology never tested before (Rechargeable batteries) trains are certified and are rolling since 2017. In Ottawa trains are being tested since 2016 and all of them aren't certified yet.
- No report of tunnel leaks in Nice, many in Ottawa.
- Overall construction is taking them 5 years, it's taking us 7.
- Nice is a MUCH denser city then Ottawa, meaning smaller operational space for construction... yet they are taking less time to build their LRT.
- Their system is 1,1 Billion cheaper, yet being in a much denser and older city...

I don't want to call Ottawa an amateur city but it's really taking the shape of it. It really bugs me... and if Nice didn't have their 1 year delay, they would've finished their LRT in 4 years. It's quite frustrating, and a shame for the national capital of a country like Canada to be anable to construct a 12km LRT system in a reasonable amount of time and wihout any construction issues...

While there are probably some comparisons to be made...the line in Nice is more like a tram in many areas-stopping at traffic lights and everything so it may not be fair to draw an overall comparison of the 2 projects.

[Kitchissippi]

Yeah, the Nice line 2 might start out in a tunnel then it just becomes a street tram and the stations are just simple stops. For their budget they also only got 19 trains that will probably cost more to maintain because of the new recharging technology.

• Video Link

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Yeah, the Nice line 2 might start out in a tunnel then it just becomes a street tram and the stations are just simple stops. For their budget they also only got 19 trains that will probably cost more to maintain because of the new recharging technology.

• Video Link

So, compared to at grade LRT systems we are more expensive, but if you compare us to full grade seperated metros, including things like Skytrain, we're getting getting 44km (line 1 only) for about 6 billion, which is an incredible bargain

[eltodesukane]

z

[kmcamp]

They've been running frequent single trains all weekend. Could the fabled 12 day service simulation be starting?

[J.OT13]

Walk around Tunney's and Bayview yesterday. Trains seem to be running roughly every 5 minutes (didn't time it, just an estimate). Only spotted two doubles in a span of more or less an hour, so likely the same one.

[eltodesukane]

Poster seen at Rideau and William.

[TheMatth69]

Underground trams are still usually operated in at a much lower operational speed, and the tunnels make much sharper turns. Ride the green line in Boston for a relatively close example. Ours has an 80km/h operational speed, which changes how it's constructed.

While there are probably some comparisons to be made...the line in Nice is more like a tram in many areas-stopping at traffic lights and everything so it may not be fair to draw an overall comparison of the 2 projects.

1) Nice tram will operate at 70km/h in the tunnel section. The section is quite straight to.

2) That's Line 1 on your picture, Line 2 is made of a Tunnel section, and a surface section built on an old bus corridor. And yes it's closer to a tram then a Light Metro like Ottawa, but the line runs completely on a seperated line.

3) Nice faces actually much more challenges than Ottawa. They have less space to build in a very dense environment. In Ottawa we had every thing pre-build for a future LRT conversion !!! The transiway was basicly an LRT corridor infrastructure built for buses. On the surface section of the Confederation line, we only had to put tracks and build stations. No road crossing, no mixed signals system for trains and cars etc....

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Perpetual motion at St Laurent station, just for fun (video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSXjeDA56UE

I'm so excited for #pisstube2019

[Gat-Train]

Anyone know why the next bus(train) arrival displays at the C-Line stops and the T-Line and bus stations are different?

[corynv]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Anyone know why the next bus(train) arrival displays at the C-Line stops and the T-Line and bus stations are different?

Without knowing exactly what you're referring to as different, (many things popped into my head) They're using the same screens on the other stations at bayview for the trillium line. I don't know why they're just using a Dot Matrix sign for the Confederation line.

Not 100% sure what you're talking about from buses, but if you're referring to the signs are the transitway stations (Like at Bayshore, Greenboro and Place dOlreans have) they're the same as the Trillium line, just the screen is a different size. Some of them are the same size are the ones on the trillium platforms, others (typically near the entrance of a station) are much bigger, since at the platform you only need to have the info for the buses that go there, but at the entrance of a station you need to displace all of the routes/lines.

If they have something different at the Confederation line station for buses that I haven't seen yet, I do apologize, and would like to see what you mean.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Anyone know why the next bus(train) arrival displays at the C-Line stops and the T-Line and bus stations are different?

The Confederation Line screens were left up to the consortium building the line.

The Trillium Line screens (and matching Transitway Screens) are an internal project at OC Transpo.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Catenary

The Confederation Line screens were left up to the consortium building the line.

The Trillium Line screens (and matching Transitway Screens) are an internal project at OC Transpo.

I see. Thanks.

Awesome, we have even more inconsistency in the network.

I don't suppose there would be any way to harmonize the system with uniform screens?

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I see. Thanks.

Awesome, we have even more inconsistency in the network.

I don't suppose there would be any way to harmonize the system with uniform screens?

Probably not, but the c-line stations do have the standard oc transpo screens for bus stops and those big giant central ones that tell you what bus at what platform. It's only the train platforms that are different.