Vancouver General Discussion Thread

[officedweller]

And the city staff are probably pissed that they were assigned to spend evenings at the events - which runs counter to the typical civil servant attitude of dropping everything midstream and running out the door the second the clock strikes 5 (or whenever).

Keep up the good work!

[SpongeG]

Networks launched to help the 40,000 Burnaby residents without a family doctor

Desiree Garcia / Burnaby Now
MARCH 21, 2019

The new networks will be located in the communities of Brentwood-Hastings, Edmonds and Metrotown, with a fourth PCN set to open in the Lougheed area in the future.

The Burnaby UPCC, which will be located within the Edmonds PCN, will open in two phases in May. The first phase will include extended hours of service and will increase access to team-based care. The second will expand to include an incubator clinic in the fall which will allow experienced family physicians to mentor new family physicians and will work to match those without family care providers with one in their community.

The Metrotown PCN, once fully developed, will also receive an incubator clinic.

The Burnaby UPCC is the second centre to be opened in B.C. The first centre was opened in Surrey and it has now seen more than 4,000 patients, Dix said.

https://www.burnabynow.com/news/networks...dents-without-a-family-doctor-1.23671549

[SpongeG]

interesting to see the problem seattle is also facing

• Video Link

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

interesting to see the problem seattle is also facing

• Video Link

This is indeed shocking, especially in a city that is the home to Microsoft, Boeing, Amazon, and many other major corporations.
Seattle is a wealthy city, unlike, for example, Detroit ot St. Louis, and was once considered one of the most livable cities in the USA.
So what is the root of police powerlessness? Washington state / Seattle city politics and policy mandates? What?
... and watching this, at the back of my mind, gnawed the question: 'Will Vancouver ever get as bad as this?' Let us pray not.

[misher]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

This is indeed shocking, especially in a city that is the home to Microsoft, Boeing, Amazon, and many other major corporations.
Seattle is a wealthy city, unlike, for example, Detroit ot St. Louis, and was once considered one of the most livable cities in the USA.
So what is the root of police powerlessness? Washington state / Seattle city politics and policy mandates? What?
... and watching this, at the back of my mind, gnawed the question: 'Will Vancouver ever get as bad as this?' Let us pray not.

Seattle is a bigger city. Also poor people go West to the best weather.

[s211]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

interesting to see the problem seattle is also facing

• Video Link

The timing of that broadcast was uncanny. Just a few hours before that program was broadcasted, I was speaking with a number of US friends who said downtown Seattle had gone significantly downhill over the past number of years, and they won't visit it anymore. Fast forward a couple of hours and then I coincidentally see that program. The similarities with Vancouver's malaise are painfully true.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by misher

Seattle is a bigger city. Also poor people go West to the best weather.

It's not about being a bigger city or not. Note some of the quotes from the video:
"Everyone's trying to do the right thing: it just comes out wrong": quote by a cop
"Indifference disguised as compassion" another quote

I see many similarities between Vancouver and what Seattle, and many other American cities are facing now.

Western North American cities, namely LA, SF, Seattle and Vancouver, often laud themselves as "progressive", but at the same time, the extreme liberal attitudes are also allowing crime, lawlessness and drug culture to get out of hand: sometimes conservative values and strict enforcements are still necessary to maintain civil order. Vancouver's problem will only get worse if we don't deal with our DTES, Granville Street, Whalley problems right now.

[Klazu]

Ha! I think there is something connecting degrading West Coast cities like San Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver and many other and it isn't weather...

I was appalled to stay at Union Square in San Francisco last year with dug addicts everywhere. First thing in the morning the shops there do is wash off puke and piss on their store fronts.

Same thing in Seattle where these third world homeless camps are everywhere. Back in February I saw them in Bellevue and all other areas. It has changed for significantly worse in since I visited the city for the first time 7 years ago.

And of course, exactly the same thing here in Vancouver. Now that I live in Burnaby, I don't visit Downtown often and every time I go, it is shocking how many homeless people and drug users there are everywhere. It used to be much less visible outside of DTES and Granville Street, but now all parks in Downtown are filled with loitering people. It is disgusting and tourists must be shocked.

• Video Link

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by s211;852475t1

The timing of that broadcast was uncanny. Just a few hours before that program was broadcasted, I was speaking with a number of US friends who said downtown Seattle had gone significantly downhill over the past number of years, and they won't visit it anymore. Fast forward a couple of hours and then I coincidentally see that program. The similarities with Vancouver's malaise are painfully true.

Seattle’s downtown seems more unsettling to me as there is a feeling in the air, a potential for violence in areas that I don’t sense in Vancouver. We have junkies but not the same contingency of aggressive, violent criminals.

[misher]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Seattle’s downtown seems more unsettling to me as there is a feeling in the air, a potential for violence in areas that I don’t sense in Vancouver. We have junkies but not the same contingency of aggressive, violent criminals.

Honestly it’s just awful what drugs have done to us as a society. All these pro legalization people can 🞵🞵🞵🞵 it because we as humans don’t have the self control necessary. People are just ruined so that once there homeless they can never work again no matter how much we treat them. America has this whole war against drugs that failed, but I feel like if we strengthened our laws, enforcement, and poured money into it maybe we could do better. Maybe I’m wrong and this is impossible. It just feels like our pro drug culture has made it socially acceptable/popular to do drugs which has worsened our drug issues.

[scryer]

I would rather give these addicts a hell of a rock-bottom. No more hand-outs, no more safe injection sites. If you want to play with your life, you do so without the taxpayer's support. What's being done now isn't working. You can plainly see how effective the current war on drugs efforts in LA, Seattle, San Francisco, etc.

[GeeCee]

You people have no empathy whatsoever, do you?

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

You people have no empathy whatsoever, do you?

The situation right now is akin to giving people free handouts. It's not really solving the problem (in fact the problems seem to increase over time) and thus people's empathy and patience are being tested to the breaking point.

Having said that, I wouldn't be so harsh as to cut off all services with immediate effect; rather, I'd like to see affected individuals housed in drug addiction or mental health units for an extended mandatory period of time (e.g. a minimum of 6 months).

[giallo]

The solutions to this problem isn't an easy fix. Even if you lack empathy for people who are really down and out/addicted, and would like to see the government get tough on drug users, society will feel it one way or another.

No free handouts? Just watch the B&Es, muggings and home invasions explode as addicts do anything to get their fix.

Throw them in jail? Well, you're paying for it. Where will you put all of these newly convicted criminals? Do you have any idea how much it costs to build and run a prison?

I have empathy for addicts, as it usually stems from some real hardships in life - physical and mental abuse as a child is a main factor that leads to 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 addiction throughout one's life. I've had a few friends that have suffered greatly from addiction, and believe me, they'd do anything not to be addicted. The problem is twofold though; the drugs ease the pain of addiction and whatever pain they are dealing with mentally. It's a very hard cycle to break, and we still haven't found an easy (pardon the pun) fix.

I'm sure there are plenty of politicians that would love to stop giving addicts money every month to feed their addiction or to throw them in jail, but they know it'd be political suicide because you'd either see a massive spike in crime or you'd have to raise taxes.

What you're seeing is the effect of living in a free society. We don't jail our way out of this.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by misher

Honestly it’s just awful what drugs have done to us as a society. All these pro legalization people can 🞵🞵🞵🞵 it because we as humans don’t have the self control necessary. People are just ruined so that once there homeless they can never work again no matter how much we treat them. America has this whole war against drugs that failed, but I feel like if we strengthened our laws, enforcement, and poured money into it maybe we could do better. Maybe I’m wrong and this is impossible. It just feels like our pro drug culture has made it socially acceptable/popular to do drugs which has worsened our drug issues.

They are just spending money on the wrong things: giving out free drugs and wasted welfare cheques, building subsidized housing without follow-up treatment, etc, and enabling a whole slew of industry to profit from all the government funding, without doing anything to alleviate the problem. We need to crack down hard on drug pushers by letting cops do their jobs again: give max sentences to the criminals as their crime is akin to manslaughter. 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 addicts should be forced to get treatment, and not given free drugs and needles like what In-site does. Apathy of the society only breeds desensitization, until the situation becomes uncontrollable.

Originally Posted by GeeCee

You people have no empathy whatsoever, do you?

Quick to judge, are you? Empathy does not mean leaving people out there to die by not enforcing the laws:our society is encouraging that right now.

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Seattle’s downtown seems more unsettling to me as there is a feeling in the air, a potential for violence in areas that I don’t sense in Vancouver. We have junkies but not the same contingency of aggressive, violent criminals.

Not true, there have already been a couple of violent crimes involving murder at DTES in 2019.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Vin

They are just spending money on the wrong things: giving out free drugs and wasted welfare cheques, building subsidized housing without follow-up treatment, etc, and enabling a whole slew of industry to profit from all the government funding, without doing anything to alleviate the problem. We need to crack down hard on drug pushers by letting cops do their jobs again: give max sentences to the criminals as their crime is akin to manslaughter. 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 addicts should be forced to get treatment, and not given free drugs and needles like what In-site does. Apathy of the society only breeds desensitization, until the situation becomes uncontrollable.

But but, addicts have human rights! They have a right to milk us for welfare money, screw up our cities, and get free drugs+housing. It would be inhumane for us to force them to get better to prevent them from constantly being a burden on us /s

[Vin]

Originally Posted by misher

But but, addicts have human rights! They have a right to milk us for welfare money, screw up our cities, and get free drugs+housing. It would be inhumane for us to force them to get better to prevent them from constantly being a burden on us /s

Exactly. That's what those NGOs are there to shut down those who are trying to do the right thing. What have the NGOs done to make the problem go away? Nothing!

And then you have people coming in to criticize those who want stricter enforcement have no empathy....

See this:

Originally Posted by Vin

It's not about being a bigger city or not. Note some of the quotes from the video:
"Everyone's trying to do the right thing: it just comes out wrong": quote by a cop
"Indifference disguised as compassion" another quote

[Vin]

Originally Posted by giallo

The solutions to this problem isn't an easy fix. Even if you lack empathy for people who are really down and out/addicted, and would like to see the government get tough on drug users, society will feel it one way or another.

(1)No free handouts? Just watch the B&Es, muggings and home invasions explode as addicts do anything to get their fix.

(2)Throw them in jail? Well, you're paying for it. Where will you put all of these newly convicted criminals? Do you have any idea how much it costs to build and run a prison?

(3)I have empathy for addicts, as it usually stems from some real hardships in life - physical and mental abuse as a child is a main factor that leads to 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 addiction throughout one's life. I've had a few friends that have suffered greatly from addiction, and believe me, they'd do anything not to be addicted. The problem is twofold though; the drugs ease the pain of addiction and whatever pain they are dealing with mentally. It's a very hard cycle to break, and we still haven't found an easy (pardon the pun) fix.

(4)I'm sure there are plenty of politicians that would love to stop giving addicts money every month to feed their addiction or to throw them in jail, but they know it'd be political suicide because you'd either see a massive spike in crime or you'd have to raise taxes.

(5)What you're seeing is the effect of living in a free society. We don't jail our way out of this.

(1) I suppose you are suggesting society to spoil people by giving more free handouts so that they won't break into your cars, houses, etc. Well guess what, despite giving free handouts all this time, it is still happening: I see it all the time. Smashed car windows, store fronts, lawlessness, etc. Drug addiction and the greed and craving know no bounds. No matter how much money is handed out to individuals, it is never enough. Stopping the addiction and the supply of drugs is key to solving the problem.

(2) Yup, we only end up paying for it if inmates stay in prison for free. Make them work and produce something useful like they used to. I rather use my tax money to pay for better prisons with drug and mental health treatment than supporting "outdoor tent hospitals and In-site", subsidized housing, modular housing, higher property taxes from city due to increased maintenance cost, etc.

(3) So do you just leave the drug addicts or your friends out there to slowly, painfully, and constantly tortured and abused by drug pushers to their death? Also, not every addict had been abused as a kid, and I don't get why people keep using that as an excuse. Some are just irresponsible pricks trying to get high, and don't give a hoot about society. I don't know your friends, but if we have a good treatment facility, we can put all your friends into it to get clean. You said it yourself, " they'd do anything not to be addicted". Trust me, sometimes going cold turkey or given alternative treatment is the key. You DON'T just leave them out there to die! (Watch Seattle is Dying: last part about what Rhode Island is doing is indeed sobering)

(4) So not true, and that is misinformation. If those who deserve jail time are incarcerated, how can there be a spike in crime? Politicians are giving out free handouts and giving free drugs to addicts now as we speak, and cirme, drug addiction and fentanyl deaths are getting worse.

(5) Nothing works in extremities, and what you see in DTES is the effect of living in a free society in its extremity. Sometimes control is necessary, or we wouldn't be having law and enforcement. Ideally humans should all be able to behave for the sake of the majority, but that will never happen.

There is a scourge today affecting west coat cities like San Francisco, Seattle and Vancouver. Well it all started fairly innocently in the 60s and coined something rather cool like being hippie: we are paying for it today.

If other cities around the world can do it better, so can we. We just need to get out of our ego-centric mentality, and stop giving excuses!

[Vin]

As a kid, we learnt that a fire truck is to fight fire, an ambulance is to transport an ill patient to the hospital, and a police cruiser is to arrest criminals. Today, they are all used to deal with drug addicts.

Resources we are spending on day-in day-out to deal with the drug crisis downtown:

• Video Link

[Vin]

I posted this on the DTES thread before:

• Video Link