Ottawa intercity bus terminal relocation

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ottawa has service to Syracuse?????

I know. I was surprised when I saw it on Greyhound’s schedule. Seems to be a one way red eye. Bus 5794 Syracuse to Ottawa

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

They were onboard when O'Brien proposed it nearly a decade ago when there was no HFR plan. I can't imagine they'd be opposed to it with HFR.

It is hard to say. Greyhound's profitability has decreased significantly in the past decade. I think their days in Canada are numbered (and HFR could be the nail in the coffin), but as you say, the missing pieces could be picked up by others.

Hourly bus from Clarence-Rockland to Tremblay.

You really are fixated on bus service to Clarence-Rockland. Currently they only have commuter service for those travelling downtown. Not sure if they are large enough for an hourly inter-city connection service. They might have some of their commuter buses stop at the train station and maybe, they might offer a couple extra buses a week for rail connections.

It doesn't necessarily have to be Greyhound. That's my point. Towns themselves could start subsidizing connecting buses. And where the business case exists, VIA itself could launch feeder services. I imagine, for example, more buses to places like Petawawa and North Bay and Cornwall. And they won't necessarily be 45 ft fifty seater coaches. They may just be 35 ft forty seaters running twice or thrice per day. Something like this:

http://www.mcicoach.com/luxury-coach...engerJ3500.htm

Many of those small towns offer commuter services already. They could add a stop at the train station, but I am not sure if enough people would use it to justify delaying the commuters. The schedules are also currently designed around people getting to work on time, not catching a train. If you are suggesting that a separate route be created for train connections, even with a mini bus, I don't think enough people would use the service to justify the cost.

Ontario Northland could actually get a real boost from such a setup in Eastern Ontario. I could see them supplanting Greyhound as the dominant bus company in these parts.

Agreed. Ontario Northland currently has 1 bus a day between Ottawa and North Bay (with a connection to Sudbury and beyond most days). They could take over Greyhound's bus route as well. Integration between Ontario Northland and VIA Rail only makes sense.

It's not just the cost. It's the fact that the new location may not actually work for whatever HSR/HFR plan is in the works. Especially if Ottawa is a thru station.

Playing devil's advocate, unlike a station downtown, a station at Hurdman wouldn't change much for HFR. Regardless, it would be a waste of money relocating the station by less than 1km.

[Ottawaresident]

A station at Rideau though ...

[Gat-Train]

http://mobt.ca/ Here is a website about moving the Central Bus Station to Colonel By and Laurier. I suggest checking it out.

[McC]

Hard pass. Sure, in theory, it *could* be beautiful and well-sited on that lovely, prime spot, but come on... who is going to foot the bill to pay for a beautiful bus terminal?

[Mikeed]

Move it to the VIA rail station and have the long term plan for the airport rail link to go from Tremblay to the Airport.

Hard hard pass on that location. There are almost no benefits and it doesn't belong next to a UNESCO world heritage site and key capital view path.

Colonel By is the ceremonial gateway to the Captial.

What is important for a bus terminal is good highway access and good transit access. Low build cost and low operating costs. This has mediocre prospects on all fronts.

Remember greyhound is dying and Ontario Northland has had to step in a provide vital services. The question of the western intercity bus service collapse is still unsolved.

The ideal location would offer a future as a hub for regional bus service like GO Bus for the Ottawa Valley & Eastern Ontario region.

There's not enough space for getting buses in and out quickly for future regional service.

Can you imagine any stakeholder actually supporting this location?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

http://mobt.ca/ Here is a website about moving the Central Bus Station to Colonel By and Laurier. I suggest checking it out.

Dunno who put this together. But not a feasible idea.

1) Giving up valuable greenspace in the core isn't going to down well.

2) Building a bus terminal right by defence headquarters is not going to be readily supported by the feds. Nobody was thrilled with the idea that Mackenize King was right outside the front door. That's being remedied. They won't support a new target built on the other side now.

3) Like the current location, integration at this point is crap. Why bother moving if they can't actually improve convenience for most people?

This plan seems like it's designed by a U of O student to make it more convenient for them. They go to school for 4-6 years. We need plans that work for everyone else too. Longer term there needs to be a realization that eventually long-haul travel to places like Toronto is going to migrate from bus to rail. Any plan on moving or altering the current bus setup needs to account for that.

[Ottawaresident]

I can only support this plan if HSR is implemented. Greyhound?

[danishh]

In general this is the approach I would like to see. Keep in mind I'm past my intercity bus riding days, but was a regular commuter between Montreal's bus terminal and Ottawa's for over 5 years (I was back in Ottawa every few weeks while living in Montreal).

1. Via rail, with funding from three levels of government, builds bus bays at Tremblay. Open it up to any potential service providers. Greyhound can decide for themselves if they want to participate. Does anyone know if there are any regulatory or legal reasons Via cant do this tomorrow?

2. Eventually, if this model is successful, Greyhound or new operators will move their routes to Tremblay. Catherine will eventually not be worth it and abandoned.

3. At this point, you invest in a full bus terminal at tremblay, again, controlled by Via. Funding from 3 levels of government again, possibly also from service fees charged to the bus operators but to make this model successful there should not be barriers to new entrants.

4. Now that we have an integrated transit hub at Tremblay, keep investing in it until capacity problems start to occur. Then start talking about relocating Via back to Union station (underground platforms, tunnel down nicholas, a ridiculously expensive project. My best guess is we don't get to this point in most of our lifetimes.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

Hard hard pass on that location. There are almost no benefits and it doesn't belong next to a UNESCO world heritage site and key capital view path.

Called it: The UNESCO designation is now the go-to talking point to oppose anything within about a mile of the canal.

Why is the world heritage designation fatal to such an idea?

Colonel By is the ceremonial gateway to the Captial.

It's not exactly where the proles gather to cast petals in the path of the emperor's litter.

What is important for a bus terminal is good highway access and good transit access. Low build cost and low operating costs. This has mediocre prospects on all fronts.

What's important for bus passengers is a good central location with connections to other modes of transport.

[Truenorth00]

You don't need spiral development to move to Tremblay.

There's about ~15 bus bays at the terminal today. And another dozen or so parking spots for buses. They could fit all those bays and bus layover parking by simply redeveloping one of the parking lots. The station has the room to add facilities to accommodate increased passenger traffic.

It really wouldn't be exorbitant to completely redo the station to build a parking structure, bus bays and improved amenities. Probably somewhere between $50-100 million depending on scope and details. And VIA, the city and bus travelers would all massively benefit. I wish the feds, province and city could get together on this one.

[Kitchissippi]

I posted this on some other thread a long time ago before the Terminal Ave buildings were built, but I still think it could still be squeezed in. If the bus station was built on the Trainyards side and connected to the train staton and LRT via an expanded pedestrian tunnel:



and integrated with an extended Southeast Transitway, the intercity buses could avoid Queensway traffic altogether (possibly westward via Baseline BRT route).



I was in Quebec City a couple of years ago transferring from a bus from Rimouski to an Ottawa bound train and their connected bus and train station is really convenient.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I posted this on some other thread a long time ago before the Terminal Ave buildings were built, but I still think it could still be squeezed in. If the bus station was built on the Trainyards side and connected to the train staton and LRT via an expanded pedestrian tunnel:



and integrated with an extended Southeast Transitway, the intercity buses could avoid Queensway traffic altogether (possibly westward via Baseline BRT route).



I was in Quebec City a couple of years ago transferring from a bus from Rimouski to an Ottawa bound train and their connected bus and train station is really convenient.

i like your idea alot it makes the most sense

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I posted this on some other thread a long time ago before the Terminal Ave buildings were built, but I still think it could still be squeezed in. If the bus station was built on the Trainyards side and connected to the train staton and LRT via an expanded pedestrian tunnel:...

and integrated with an extended Southeast Transitway, the intercity buses could avoid Queensway traffic altogether (possibly westward via Baseline BRT route).

This is a great idea. I don't even think they need that large a terminal there. I think one centre-island platform with 7-10 bays on each side would be just sufficient.

[Mikeed]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

=What's important for bus passengers is a good central location with connections to other modes of transport.

What people in this forum rarely realize is the end user is only a fraction of the stakeholders needed onside to get anything done.

Cost of land, good highway access is really important to companies actually paying for the terminal (and thus passing on the cost to users). Greyhound doesn't want to dwell in traffic on Nicholas St, especially for bus service where margins are thin and the service is struggling. Also, this location doesn't even have good connections to other modes of transportation.

[Mikeed]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I posted this on some other thread a long time ago before the Terminal Ave buildings were built, but I still think it could still be squeezed in. If the bus station was built on the Trainyards side and connected to the train staton and LRT via an expanded pedestrian tunnel:



and integrated with an extended Southeast Transitway, the intercity buses could avoid Queensway traffic altogether (possibly westward via Baseline BRT route).



I was in Quebec City a couple of years ago transferring from a bus from Rimouski to an Ottawa bound train and their connected bus and train station is really convenient.

This is why in the long run the Airport rail link should go to this type of intermodal hub. Especially if we eventually see rural commuter rail/bus service expansion.

But that's the last I'll say about that.

It could facilitate an evolution in this district into more of an employment node in the longer term if this hub was constructed.

[Mikeed]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

It's not exactly where the proles gather to cast petals in the path of the emperor's litter.

It is exactly where a lot of people watched Obama's motorcade in 2016. This role of Colonel By will never change and is important to the players that make Ottawa the city it is. If it wasn't for the capital Ottawa would more or less be another Timmins. Just for lumber.

yes, good point Uthuniau about the UNESCO heritage site. What this scenery needs is an ineffective bus terminal built with great public subsidy so its an architectural landmark "for all Canadians" to enjoy.

[Truenorth00]

This plan sort of begs the question. Why didn't they build a transitway connection which terminates at Tremblay and make that station the new Hurdman?

[acottawa]

I am not clear what problem these proposals are trying to solve. The bus and train generally serve the same routes, so there is not much intermodal transferring going on.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I am not clear what problem these proposals are trying to solve. The bus and train generally serve the same routes, so there is not much intermodal transferring going on.

I think the point is to get the bus station on the Confederation line.