Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

Why do people drive so much? And why are Ottawa city planners so incompetent?

It's not entirely the city fault the feds are also responsible tooas I have said in my previous posts

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

Barrie and Newmarket has always been commuter communities to the greater GTA.

The echo chamber of this forum some times never ceases to surprise me.

I grew up in the GTA. Well aware of how those places developed.

First, let's separate Newmarket and Barrie. They are very different. Newmarket always had more of a commuter component. Even before extensions of the 404 further north. For the longest time, Newmarket was considered the last suburb down the 404 since the highway ended at Davis Drive. If you lived in the GTA in the 90s, you'd know this.

Barrie was different. Both because it had highway access earlier and GO Train access much later. Barrie was not a suburb. It was an exurb. Similar to say Port Hope, Coburg or Welland today. It didn't start getting suburbanized until the early 2000s when GO Bus service was regularized and then in the early-2010s GO Train service started.

The comparisons between the GTA and Ottawa are strange. They aren't directly transferable. Toronto has exurbs in addition to suburbs. And as the GO Train expands, some of those exurbs become suburbs. Ottawa has a few far flung exurbs, but has large suburbs. And these suburbs have always been that. It's not like Kanata or Barrhaven or Orleans really had substantially indepdent economies. By contrast, Barrie has always had a tourism industry, a large military base and a college that provided a lot of its own local economy, aside from Toronto commuters.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

good post, I wish everyone looks at it and see how stupid living in suburbs that are far from where people work is

I'm usually quick to call out the suburbanites because I do think many people are far too willing to simply write off urban living to get as much space as possible for their dollar.

But a big part of the problem is the housing mix and space. North American cities just suck on building low-rise density and family appropriate housing in urban areas. If you want to live in the greenbelt, your housing choices are usually smaller condo for cheap or more expensive detached. The smaller townhouses, duplexes, etc. and larger condos are really lacking. So people end up moving to the burbs for a lot more space for their budget.

The issue of housing stock really needs to be addressed. Look how many condos have popped up downtown. How many of them could be purchased and lived in by even upper middle class families with two kids?

Most of the area inside the greenbelt is actually still ridiculously suburban. Lots of single family detached still. And since those homes cost a fortune families get pushed further and further out.

[J.OT13]

Regarding the question of whether the outer-greenbelt suburbs developed into somewhat "independent" cities, I would give a hard no to Orleans and Barrhaven/Riverside South, but Kanata is as close as an independent suburb you can get, and that's why it should be treated differently within our transit plans. Simply extending the Confederation Line to Terry Fox, Palladium or Hazeldean isn't enough. It needs its own transit loop (or "8") to effectively serve Kanata North Business Park, the Palladium Business Park and the residential areas around. That loop should not be rail, but buses, and possibly self driving buses partially funded by the tech companies developing the technology.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

good post, I wish everyone looks at it and see how stupid living in suburbs that are far from where people work is

I live and work in the suburbs and I live quite close to my office. Have I made a bad choice? I don't think so.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I live and work in the suburbs and I live quite close to my office. Have I made a bad choice? I don't think so.

The comment you were replying to specified "suburbs that are far from where people work". You are correct though, it isn't always so simple - especially if one partner works in the suburb and another works closer to downtown.

[McC]

What *is* simple is the topic of this thread, there are other threads for yelling at each other about Greber, the Greenbelt, and the sustained consequences of mid-century ideals of lifestyles and city building.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by McC

What *is* simple is the topic of this thread, there are other threads for yelling at each other about Greber, the Greenbelt, and the sustained consequences of mid-century ideals of lifestyles and city building.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I live and work in the suburbs and I live quite close to my office. Have I made a bad choice? I don't think so.

I was talking about people living far away from work.

People like yourself I have no problem with, its people who live 20km and more away from where they work that I have a problem with.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by McC

What *is* simple is the topic of this thread, there are other threads for yelling at each other about Greber, the Greenbelt, and the sustained consequences of mid-century ideals of lifestyles and city building.

can you give me a link to that thread. sounds interesting

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

I was talking about people living far away from work.

People like yourself I have no problem with, its people who live 20km and more away from where they work that I have a problem with.

I live in the city and work 22km away in Kanata... I'd much rather live in the city than Kanata... I'd much rather my work was in the city, but it is what it is
... do you have a problem with this ?

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

I live in the city and work 22km away in Kanata... I'd much rather live in the city than Kanata... I'd much rather my work was in the city, but it is what it is
... do you have a problem with this ?

if you drive a car contributing to traffic then I do

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

if you drive a car contributing to traffic then I do

hmm... I see. So since my company moved from near downtown to Kanata... I'm supposed to a) Move to Kanata or b) Find a new job or c) Spend 45-60 minutes on buses rather than 16 minutes in a car.

Please advise.

[lrt's friend]

There will always be a mismatch between home and employment for a variety of reasons. A lot of this will have to do with family, compromises with the needs of a spouse, price of housing, lifestyle preferences and employment relocation whether its for a new job or the business moves.

[Acajack]

My wife has changed jobs three times in the past four years, and all three were in pretty different locations (two in Gatineau, one in Ottawa).

Were we supposed to move the entire family for each job change? Should I have moved my kids to a different province's school system for 10 months?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

I live in the city and work 22km away in Kanata... I'd much rather live in the city than Kanata... I'd much rather my work was in the city, but it is what it is
... do you have a problem with this ?

Your post shows the downsides of the greenbelt. Take away the belt and that commute would be 20% shorter. Heck, probably even better than that with different development patterns, if there was no greenbelt.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My wife has changed jobs three times in the past four years, and all three were in pretty different locations (two in Gatineau, one in Ottawa).

Were we supposed to move the entire family for each job change? Should I have moved my kids to a different province's school system for 10 months?

Exactly. And this is why I think the downtown centric planning obsession of this board is somewhat flawed. Not everybody works or lives downtown. And we should be aiming for a transit system that can get someone from a home in Orleans to a desk in Kanata in an hour or a home in Barrhaven to a cubicle in Gatineau in an hour. And I do mean an hour from the time they walk out the front door to them setting down their lunch pail at their desk. This should be the goal. The city would be far more livable and see far less car use if we achieved this.

It's not just the outer burbs. The inner suburbs (Vanier) are terrible too. It's pathetic that it takes 45 mins to trundle down Montreal and Rideau from say Beacon Hill to Rideau Centre. I get the frustration of folks Uhuniau (though I'm perhaps less inclined to completely dismiss suburban concerns).

[pattherat]

Originally Posted by McC

What *is* simple is the topic of this thread, there are other threads for yelling at each other about Greber, the Greenbelt, and the sustained consequences of mid-century ideals of lifestyles and city building.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

good post, I wish everyone looks at it and see how stupid living in suburbs that are far from where people work is

Unless you work in the suburbs, in which case living in the suburbs makes your commute shorter. I would love to live downtown but don’t want a long commute.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My wife has changed jobs three times in the past four years, and all three were in pretty different locations (two in Gatineau, one in Ottawa).

Were we supposed to move the entire family for each job change? Should I have moved my kids to a different province's school system for 10 months?

Have you ever thought of changing wives? Just flushing out all the options for you.