Broadway Corridor Development Plan

[misher]

Originally Posted by fredinno

40+ is fine for South False Creek or as 'Gateway' or 'Landmark' towers on Broadway/Granville or Broadway/Main, both outside the viewcones, and on major destination points.

They are building those two gateway towers to the sides of the Granville Bridge, Vancovuer House and whatchamacallit that I think look awful as there much bigger than everything nearby. However, it would be cool to have two opposing towers on the other side of the bridge to match them.

Btw lol look at the sticky notes, you got everyone against that 20 storey rental building showing up and tagging Granville & Broadway.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Changing City

... The last change to zoning along West Broadway was to downzone the commercial-only stretch of the street, from Oak to Cambie, many years ago. I assume there was a public, or Council dislike of the higher density commercial buildings. Whatever the reason it was introduced, it hasn't been revisited until now, although the Metro Core Jobs Plan did allow rezoning to higher density, which is what the Neelu Bachra Centre and the new Bosa office at Oak took advantage of. All the new industry/office buildings being built in Mount Pleasant are part of the Metro Core Plan, but they didn't raise the density, just tweak the zoning, which has opened up a significant volume of development.

Yeah, I think it was unfortunate that the string of condo towers (Oak to Granville area) were able to encroach into what could have been a stretch of office buildings.

One of the biggest - the Trans-Mountain Building at 1333 West Broadway was completed in 1991.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yeah, I think it was unfortunate that the string of condo towers (Oak to Granville area) were able to encroach into what could have been a stretch of office buildings.

One of the biggest - the Trans-Mountain Building at 1333 West Broadway was completed in 1991.

It's a big building - around 187,000 sq. ft., but still only 3 FSR (it's on a big site). I'm not sure when the C-3A density was reduced - it's before internet records - but Broadway Plaza from 1979 for example is 5 FSR, but in the C3-A zone, not rezoned to CD-1. That's not true today; the maximum is 3FSR, with a possible 10% addition from purchase of heritage density. Given an earlier City Planning Director's love of residential projects in the CBD, it's surprising that Oak to Yukon was preserved for employment space (although Crossroads managed to get a residential component into the mix).

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by misher

They are building those two gateway towers to the sides of the Granville Bridge, Vancovuer House and whatchamacallit that I think look awful as there much bigger than everything nearby. However, it would be cool to have two opposing towers on the other side of the bridge to match them.

Originally Posted by fredinno

40+ is fine for South False Creek or as 'Gateway' or 'Landmark' towers on Broadway/Granville or Broadway/Main, both outside the viewcones, and on major destination points.

40+ would also be fine for False Creek South, being at sea level, and having to 'integrate' with Yaletown/False Creek North. Even the ~15 story Olympic Village looks underbuilt compared to the structures across the water. I don't even know why- the viewcones now should allow for 20+ stories. Is it a legacy of a view cone that was removed, and no one bothered to rezone to higher density, or...?

Unlikely for the general density on Broadway though.

Unlikely for anything north of 6th Avenue, that is. Olympic Village is overbearing for some of these folks.

I don't think it's too much of a problem artistically. Push for 60+ downtown, then slowly scale density higher and higher up to 30+ on Broadway: a False Creek-sized amphitheatre facing the mountains. A Broadway that's higher than downtown would look even worse than what misher thinks of Vancouver House.

Originally Posted by fredinno

Does the Jim Pattison Centre at Vancouver General tower over Vancouver?

The equivalent for Vancouver is South False Creek, as the CBD is expanding East/Southwards, and will soon touch BC Place.

Pattison's under 40. No problem.

Just like Melbourne's CBD is expanding into Southbank. South False Creek and Broadway is practically Albert Park.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by misher

Btw lol look at the sticky notes, you got everyone against that 20 storey rental building showing up and tagging Granville & Broadway.

Open houses are basically "Complain About Everything Day" for many people.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

More at : https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2019/0...ded-community/

...Ouch.

This got me:

In this case, my acquaintance believed there was no need for new growth in the area, as all the existing homes are actually empty. When I pointed out we know many people in the area, our relationship soured, and they labelled us fools for not realizing people are simply paid to make these vacant homes appear lived in.

Though new housing is only part of what this plan should represent, as there is also a critical shortage of job space in our region. So, it was rather heart-breaking to hear one person insist new density was not needed, as homes should simply replace the Mount Pleasant Industrial Area. From what we understand, these types of sentiments were more strongly echoed later at the open house in Kitsilano.

Thankfully, this would probably not happen (hopefully), considering it's have to get approval from Metro Van to rezone a designated industrial-only area. Then again, so is the Molson site, and Concord bought it- and the Flavelle Mill site was rezoned (though it had special study area designation, which have lower vote barriers to exclusion)
Metro really seems to lack nerve compared to the ALC.
http://www.metrovancouver.org/servic...mendments.aspx

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Unlikely for anything north of 6th Avenue, that is. Olympic Village is overbearing for some of these folks.

I don't think it's too much of a problem artistically. Push for 60+ downtown, then slowly scale density higher and higher up to 30+ on Broadway: a False Creek-sized amphitheatre facing the mountains. A Broadway that's higher than downtown would look even worse than what misher thinks of Vancouver House.

That still limits density much more than if the South False Creek was just rezoned to the density and height of North False Creek.

They could still go to 40 stories up to the south side of 6th Ave, and leave South False Creek as is, and it wouldn't look horrible. Maybe a little artificial, but 6th Ave and the Streetcar corridor provide enough space to prevent too much shadowing.

Though, I still believe South False Creek should have been sold with the Expo lands. Maybe the city will sell the land once the leases expire? It's not really used for anything but apartments anyways.

Pattison's under 40. No problem.

Just like Melbourne's CBD is expanding into Southbank. South False Creek and Broadway is practically Albert Park.

I was referring to misher's statement that 20+ was too much.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

That still limits density much more than if the South False Creek was just rezoned to the density and height of North False Creek.

They could still go to 40 stories up to the south side of 6th Ave, and leave South False Creek as is, and it wouldn't look horrible. Maybe a little artificial, but 6th Ave and the Streetcar corridor provide enough space to prevent too much shadowing.

Though, I still believe South False Creek should have been sold with the Expo lands. Maybe the city will sell the land once the leases expire? It's not really used for anything but apartments anyways.


I was referring to misher's statement that 20+ was too much.

I dunno, a uniform 40 from Waterfront to Broadway reeks of Hong Kong. We're definitely not that desperate just yet, not when the rest of the city can barely get to 5. IMO 40 for South False Creek and 40+ for downtown/Broadway can wait for the next thirty-year plan.

I believe that's the intention for SFC. Nobody's living on the ex-Expo right now, so the owners can buy and sell as they please.

Got it.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I dunno, a uniform 40 from Waterfront to Broadway reeks of Hong Kong. We're definitely not that desperate just yet, not when the rest of the city can barely get to 5. IMO 40 for South False Creek and 40+ for downtown/Broadway can wait for the next thirty-year plan.

I believe that's the intention for SFC. Nobody's living on the ex-Expo right now, so the owners can buy and sell as they please.

Got it.

A few towers in the 800m circles around the stations would make sense with lower elevations slowly going down to create an incline rather than a straight skyline as density is spread farther out. I doubt we will see 40 storey towers (although this has my full suppprt). Likely even 20 will be controversial despite there being some there already that are near this.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by misher

A few towers in the 800m circles around the stations would make sense with lower elevations slowly going down to create an incline rather than a straight skyline as density is spread farther out. I doubt we will see 40 storey towers (although this has my full suppprt). Likely even 20 will be controversial despite there being some there already that are near this.

I guess I'd be okay with a couple of 40s, but they better be good ones.

The viewcones are arguably a bigger obstacle to highrises than the NIMBYs (especially the one OF City Hall from the seawall, which I have never been able to see, nor really wanted to). Gotta work on those as well.

[giallo]

So that cool-looking 20fl twin tower at MEC site is never going to happen, huh? I really like that project.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by giallo

So that cool-looking 20fl twin tower at MEC site is never going to happen, huh? I really like that project.

Twenty floors technically clears Cone 3.2.4, so I think it's cool as far as City Hall is concerned. Anything higher might've had a problem getting past the NPA, Greens and Swanson .

[misher]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Twenty floors technically clears Cone 3.2.4, so I think it's cool as far as City Hall is concerned. Anything higher might've had a problem getting past the NPA, Greens and Swanson .

I thought the NPA was the evil party in the pockets of the developers? At the very least if they are expect to see 20+? If not then thats pretty good evidence they aren't?

Another significant - and new - faction in the NPA was also hostile to Bremner’s housing plans. Its unofficial leader is Glen Chernen, an investment adviser who created the short-lived Cedar party during the 2014 election campaign. Chernen used Cedar to rail against both Vision and the NPA for being too friendly with property developers.

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2018/05/1...andfather-NPA/

Hopefully the NPA and possibly one Green will approve them. Maybe Stewart as he did promise rapid expansion of housing supply. I don't see COPE's Christine Boyle approving more than 20+ but possibly.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by misher

I thought the NPA was the evil party in the pockets of the developers? At the very least if they are expect to see 20+? If not then thats pretty good evidence they aren't?

That's the Vision stereotype, and last year they got reduced to one guy on the School Board. The NPA and Greens (e.g. Carr, Fry, Hardwick, et al) are generally preservationists.

Originally Posted by misher

Hopefully the NPA and possibly one Green will approve them. Maybe Stewart as he did promise rapid expansion of housing supply. I don't see COPE's Christine Boyle approving more than 20+ but possibly.

Do you mean Jean Swanson? Christine Boyle's with the urbanists in OneCity and would likely be cool with 30+; hell will freeze over before Swanson approves anything that's not 100% below-market or co-op.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

That's the Vision stereotype, and last year they got reduced to one guy on the School Board. The NPA and Greens (e.g. Carr, Fry, Hardwick, et al) are generally preservationists.



Do you mean Jean Swanson? Christine Boyle's with the urbanists in OneCity and would likely be cool with 30+; hell will freeze over before Swanson approves anything that's not 100% below-market or co-op.

Well alot of people accused the NPA of being with rich developers but I agree that conflicts with the people who accuse them of being preservationists.

I think Boyle is ok as long as its a social housing 30+ tower. But her platform was mostly about affordable housing and I don't see a 30+ social housing tower getting built. I'm not sure she'd approve a for-profit strata 30+ tower.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by misher

I think Boyle is ok as long as its a social housing 30+ tower. But her platform was mostly about affordable housing and I don't see a 30+ social housing tower getting built. I'm not sure she'd approve a for-profit strata 30+ tower.

Boyle's been pretty pro-growth so far; her statements and voting record and the OneCity platform aren't really anti market so much as pro below-market. So long as a highrise came with MIRHPPs, no problem.

Compare and contrast with the NPA's and COPE's.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Boyle's been pretty pro-growth so far; her statements and voting record and the OneCity platform aren't really anti market so much as pro below-market. So long as a highrise came with MIRHPPs, no problem.

Compare and contrast with the NPA's and COPE's.

The NPA platform seems to lack detail/substance.

The COPE platform you linked...god thats scary. Sure everything they say sounds great but how would we bloody pay for it all. Honestly sounds like a bunch of young idealists on a lot of drugs got together and wrote a campaign platform that tried to be a communist as possible without eliminating money. They want to increase the minimum wage 80% immediately for christ's sake. And basically turn landlords into indentured servants. I'm not sure landlords could handle a rent freeze while maintenance and other costs continue to increase and taxes skyrocket to afford COPE's programs.

How the hell did these lunatics get a candidate on council. Most people reading this should get the shivers.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by misher

The NPA platform seems to lack detail/substance.

The COPE platform you linked...god thats scary. Sure everything they say sounds great but how would we bloody pay for it all. Honestly sounds like a bunch of young idealists on a lot of drugs got together and wrote a campaign platform that tried to be a communist as possible without eliminating money. They want to increase the minimum wage 80% immediately for christ's sake. And basically turn landlords into indentured servants. I'm not sure landlords could handle a rent freeze while maintenance and other costs continue to increase and taxes skyrocket to afford COPE's programs.

How the hell did these lunatics get a candidate on council. Most people reading this should get the shivers.

Yeah, that's what I thought: lots of earnest non-commitment. The NPA wants to attract new voters from the middle without losing everybody west of Arbutus.

Generally, liberals somewhat understand money, socialists pretend to understand money, communists want to ditch money altogether. COPE falls between the latter two... and the Flower Power boomers that vote for them are hardly young.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I dunno, a uniform 40 from Waterfront to Broadway reeks of Hong Kong. We're definitely not that desperate just yet, not when the rest of the city can barely get to 5. IMO 40 for South False Creek and 40+ for downtown/Broadway can wait for the next thirty-year plan.

I believe that's the intention for SFC. Nobody's living on the ex-Expo right now, so the owners can buy and sell as they please.

Got it.

No, 40 near 6th Ave, and on Granville-Broadway and Main-Broadway. The viewcones won't even let you go 40 on Cambie-Broadway anyways (ironic on the central part of the line), and going 40 near False Creek takes advantage of the lower terrain to build higher.

Obviously this is median height, not actual height.

I'd rather have over-zoning than underzoning again. Consider it took ~30 years for Downtown to go from http://d3exkutavo4sli.cloudfront.net...4-1024x731.jpg to https://s3.amazonaws.com/medias.phot...28_xgaplus.jpg.

Granville Square is now lost in a sea of towers.

I was more wanting the next 30-year plan to focus on the West End, which barely escaped the RGS.

I believe that's the intention for SFC.

?Source?

Nobody's living on the ex-Expo right now

?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by misher

The NPA platform seems to lack detail/substance.

Did you forget that the NPA is the BC Liberal farm team? You should be framing everything they say and do in a positive light.

[misher]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Did you forget that the NPA is the BC Liberal farm team? You should be framing everything they say and do in a positive light.

Let’s not just assume that because someone prefers one party’s platform over another’s that they agree with everything? Some of the criticisms of the NPA and Liberals have merit. I just praised the BCNDP in the BC politics thread.