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  #9801  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 10:25 PM
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VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
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Just came home from a week in Ireland.
Dublin has at grade LRT that is part of the streetscape. No protection for people and at grade road crossings all over the place. Seems that everyone there can handle interacting with trains in the urban area.

Video Link

Last edited by VANRIDERFAN; Mar 20, 2019 at 10:38 PM.
     
     
  #9802  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 11:10 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
Just came home from a week in Ireland.
Dublin has at grade LRT that is part of the streetscape. No protection for people and at grade road crossings all over the place. Seems that everyone there can handle interacting with trains in the urban area.
LRT in a lot of European cities is basically an in-fill service with their metros and suburban/commuter rail services providing the bulk of long-haul. This is not what we are doing in Ottawa. We built a light metro system that happens to use light rail vehicles. The Confederation Line and Trillium Line aren't light rail transit.
     
     
  #9803  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 11:43 PM
sseguin sseguin is offline
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New information and a repeat of stuff already known was shared today at the Transportation committee meeting.

I have shared the presentation and video on O-Train Fans for all to review and view:
https://www.otrainfans.ca/blogs/ready-for-rail-operational-readiness-march-20-2019
     
     
  #9804  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 12:27 AM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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Meanwhile in Kitchener-Waterloo:


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...gion-launch-date-spring-1.5064316t's

It's spring! Region has 93 days to get LRT into service to meet own deadline


'There is still considerable work that needs to be done,' ION spokesperson says
Kate Bueckert · CBC News · Posted: Mar 20, 2019 5:59 PM ET | Last Updated: 2 hours ago

The region has said the LRT would be operational in spring 2019. Now, a spokesperson for ION says there is 'still considerable work that needs to be done.' (Kate Bueckert/CBC)

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The region has said the light rail transit system would go into operation in the spring of 2019, but officials still can't provide an exact date for launch.

TJ Flynn is the manager of community relations for ION.

"We continue to target a spring 2019 opening date, however, there is still considerable work that needs to be done to get the vehicle and the system ready for service," Flynn said in an email to CBC Kitchener-Waterloo.


LRT launch date delayed until spring 2019
Last November, the region announced the launch date would be delayed to spring because no vehicles would be ready to start service in December.

Spring ends on June 21.

Equipment taking longer
A staff report to councillors in November said the installation of specialized equipment is taking longer than expected. The equipment includes radios, antennas​ and systems to control gates and traffic signals.

'Everything was positive,' ION light rail car completes first testing
That work is mostly done says Thomas Schmidt, the commissioner of transportation and environmental services for the region. There is one speed sensor that still needs to be installed.

The vehicles still need to be tested, integrated into the control system, and there's also an issue with reliability. Schmidt says sometimes during testing, the vehicles will have a glitch and the software used to run them needs to be rebooted.

The reboot takes a few minutes, but Schmidt says it would not be acceptable to make passengers wait and potentially disrupt the transit schedule.

"Those are not issues we want to see customers deal with," he said, noting Bombardier is working through the problems and fixing the software.

'Once we pick that date, we want to hit it'
The LRT vehicles were ordered in August 2013 from Bombardier. Track construction started in August 2014 in uptown Waterloo.

In April 2013, the region said the first phase of the project was expected to be finished and operational by 2017.

Schmidt says Grandlinq also has some construction work and testing that needs to be completed before ION can officially launch.

The region is also working on making sure the Grand River Transit system is ready for the switchover to a feeder grid model in Kitchener and Waterloo once ION is running, and they're also working on getting the electronic fare card, EasyGo, running smoothly.

Read more ION LRT coverage from CBC K-W
Schmidt says he knows people are excited to get on the trains. He is, too. He's worked on the project for about 12 years "so I'm quite excited to get the trains going."

He has avoided getting on a test train during training because he wants to wait like everyone else.

"We have had delays ... we can't deny that. We are targetting spring of 2019. We don't have a specific date yet. But our target is to – as soon as we're able to pick that date – be able to come out to both our council and our public and let them know what that date is and then get this train started," Schmidt said.

"Once we pick that date, we want to hit it."
     
     
  #9805  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 12:58 AM
Gat-Train Gat-Train is offline
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Originally Posted by sseguin View Post
New information and a repeat of stuff already known was shared today at the Transportation committee meeting.

I have shared the presentation and video on O-Train Fans for all to review and view:
https://www.otrainfans.ca/blogs/ready-for-rail-operational-readiness-march-20-2019
And they couldn't have given us any update as to the readiness/certification status of the trains?
     
     
  #9806  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 1:06 AM
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LRT testing going well, Transpo boss says, but warns things won't be 'pretty' on days trains face trouble

Tom Spears, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: March 20, 2019


There’s a Plan B for days when the LRT runs into trouble. It involves extra buses, but OC Transpo’s general manager warns that it won’t be “pretty.”

John Manconi said Wednesday that he expects high reliability once the LRT gets running.

There are 20 trains doing test runs this week and “all the critical elements are progressing well,” he told the city’s transit commission.

It also performed well last week during sudden heavy snow, he said.

Still, he said, the system has to anticipate breakdowns that interrupt service in some fashion. And when that happens, whether it’s the whole line or only a section of it, OC Transpo will bring in extra buses and drivers to cover the gap.

Except, Manconi said, these buses won’t be able to entirely replace a whole line of trains.

“It will be very very challenging. We do not have 100 (or) 200 buses sitting around, waiting for backup,” he said.

“When the rail service goes down the number one protocol is to communicate” to tell the passengers what is happening, “and flood the station with resources” to help people cope.

“People will Uber, Lyft, walk, jog, bike, complain — all those things. It will not be a pretty picture, just like if Albert and Slater shut down right now,” he said.

However, he said, the system shows good signs of being able to work under stresses. For example, one stress test has been to shut down a transformer station and practise working around that. (The trains run on electricity.)

“In the unfortunate incident of a suicide, and unfortunately we will have one of those, especially with the first one, there will be major delays.”

Overall Manconi and his management team projected a bright future for LRT.

“I can guarantee you,” he said, that once LRT gets into a routine its passengers “will be satisfied customers.”

He didn’t address when LRT is expected to enter service. The current target is sometime in the second quarter of this year.

More details are emerging as the date gets closer:

• For the first three weeks of LRT service, bus routes due to be cancelled will keep running “as an insurance policy.” This will allow people to get used to the new trains gradually and will keep service flexible. As well, hundreds of customer service reps in red vests will be in the stations to guide newcomers through the system in the early days.
• Four of the initial 13 stations will have public washrooms. These are at Blair, Bayview, Tunney’s Pasture and Hurdman.
• Three stations will allow passengers to get off a bus and board the train without going through a fare gate. These are Blair, Hurdman and Tunney’s Pasture, all of which get high volumes of passengers transferring from buses. Transpo says the fare gates are protected from the weather. And it says the fare vending machines, which are exposed to the elements in some places, are designed to work well in all weather.
• There will be extra-wide fare gates for people who use wheelchairs, bicycles, strollers or other large devices. As well, stairs will have a smooth channel cut along beside the steps so that passengers can roll their bicycles instead of bumping them up and down steps.
• There will be 100 bus routes connected to the various stations in Stage 1.
• Two-thirds of all OC Transpo trips are expected to involve a train at some stage, which means 200,000 rides a day.
• Manconi said extra-rugged elevators have been installed, always in pairs in case one breaks down. He said there will also be proactive maintenance on escalators because they will be exposed to salt, cold and grit.
• Trains will run from 5 a.m. to 1 a.m. Monday through Thursday, 5 a.m. to 2 a.m. Friday, 6 a.m. to 2 a.m. Saturday, and 8 a.m. to 11 p.m. Sunday.
• Manconi also said Rideau Transit Group — the consortium responsible for maintenance of LRT after it goes live — has built up its spare parts supply in advance to avoid running short.

Manconi has some requests before launch. Don’t hold the doors open for other passengers, he asked. It slows down trains.
And if you drop something on the tracks, don’t go and get it. Transpo staff will get it for you.

[email protected]
twitter.com/TomSpears1

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...wont-be-pretty-on-days-lrt-faces-trouble
     
     
  #9807  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 10:48 AM
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And they couldn't have given us any update as to the readiness/certification status of the trains?
That only seems to happen at Fedco dates. But we'll know when we see the tests switch primarily to double trains. They are running 20 single trains lately on the tracks, so they can definitely do 10 pairs, but they need another 5 pairs for the final test.
     
     
  #9808  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 12:25 PM
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  #9809  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 12:52 PM
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LRT in a lot of European cities is basically an in-fill service with their metros and suburban/commuter rail services providing the bulk of long-haul. This is not what we are doing in Ottawa. We built a light metro system that happens to use light rail vehicles. The Confederation Line and Trillium Line aren't light rail transit.
Dublin has no metro system, LRT is the only rail transit in the central city (there is suburban conmuter rail also). Edinburgh and Jerusalem are like this as well, using street running LRT as the backbone of transit.
     
     
  #9810  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 4:14 PM
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20 trains at a time means 2.5 minute frequency. Was it really this high?
     
     
  #9811  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by zzptichka View Post
20 trains at a time means 2.5 minute frequency. Was it really this high?
Supposedly. They won't actually be running at this frequency, but the system is supposed to handle 2.5 minutes at this phase
     
     
  #9812  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 5:09 PM
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I believe the peak frequency will be around 3 minutes 20 seconds, when running 15 paired trains.
     
     
  #9813  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2019, 10:35 PM
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My first thought when I heard they were testing 20 vehicles at a time, was to wonder whether they've done any modeling on whether (depending on how people and buses bunch or flow) there might be performance advantages to running something like 10 double and 10 singles at a higher frequency, vs 15 doubles. And if they want to keep an option like that in their pockets for certain circumstances. I realize they'd have 33% higher staff costs.
     
     
  #9814  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by McC View Post
My first thought when I heard they were testing 20 vehicles at a time, was to wonder whether they've done any modeling on whether (depending on how people and buses bunch or flow) there might be performance advantages to running something like 10 double and 10 singles at a higher frequency, vs 15 doubles. And if they want to keep an option like that in their pockets for certain circumstances. I realize they'd have 33% higher staff costs.
They already ordered two additional trainsets to supplement the 15 trains we could have running at peak now, so running 20 trains at once will probably last us for the next ~10? years at least so it's a pretty good test to run now.
     
     
  #9815  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 2:08 AM
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I believe the peak frequency will be around 3 minutes 20 seconds, when running 15 paired trains.
Eastbound trains at Pimisi arriving every 5 min 17 seconds on Mar 21, 2019 around 19:40.
     
     
  #9816  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 5:22 AM
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Had we gone with the current tunnel but instead kept to the buses, this would all be over and done with. We'd have saved countless millions. Commuters, when it comes to it, only want to get from A to B. The mode of transportation is secondary, if even that.
     
     
  #9817  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 7:50 AM
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Had we gone with the current tunnel but instead kept to the buses, this would all be over and done with. We'd have saved countless millions. Commuters, when it comes to it, only want to get from A to B. The mode of transportation is secondary, if even that.
This is what they should have done 30 years ago to deal with downtown trafic, but still switch to rail as the numbers now warrant it today. Can you imagine that tunnel between 4:30 and 6:30? Furthermore, buses are actually more expensive to purchase, run and maintain. There's a reason why cities the world over choose rail when they have the population.

Last edited by bikegypsy; Mar 22, 2019 at 9:06 AM.
     
     
  #9818  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 9:54 AM
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This is what they should have done 30 years ago to deal with downtown trafic, but still switch to rail as the numbers now warrant it today. Can you imagine that tunnel between 4:30 and 6:30? Furthermore, buses are actually more expensive to purchase, run and maintain. There's a reason why cities the world over choose rail when they have the population.
The city didn't have the money to do it 30 years ago and it was much harder for ottawa to get any funding for big capital projects from the other levels of government. That's why its being done now.
     
     
  #9819  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 11:27 AM
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Good Day.

As well, please remember that a bus tunnel would have had to have been larger, better ventilated, and cost way more, for packed, overcrowded, chaotic bus queues and passenger platforms (like we ended up with on the surface, only underground and out-of-sight).

This was always the biggest gotcha for the missing link of our transitway, and it was never solved because it never could have been unless they had committed to a proper -single- bus route on it (which was what had been promised to us at the start, but never done), to which everyone had transferred from their one-seat wonders.

Nope - as it became and was, rail was the only long-term solution, and was overly delayed in getting to it.
     
     
  #9820  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 1:04 PM
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We could have built a tunnel 30 years ago, and started using hybrid electric buses (i.e running on diesel above ground, and using a catenary in the tunnel). Or we could have gone with heavy rail (a better option imo). Hindsight is 20/20, and hopefully our city planners and city planners elsewhere can learn from our mistakes. But for now, it is what it is.
     
     
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