PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[nimshady]

Personally I'm really disappointed about the development of the former Nabisco factory. The Boulevard can and should be more that strip malls!

Also for the development on the Italian Market, do you know if Anastasi's will return once its built?

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by nimshady

Personally I'm really disappointed about the development of the former Nabisco factory. The Boulevard can and should be more that strip malls!

Also for the development on the Italian Market, do you know if Anastasi's will return once its built?

Northeast and the Blvd is very car-centric. Won't get more urban development up there until you get better public transit. Won't get better public transit because it's so car-centric. Oh, the conundrum.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by nimshady

Personally I'm really disappointed about the development of the former Nabisco factory. The Boulevard can and should be more that strip malls!

Also for the development on the Italian Market, do you know if Anastasi's will return once its built?

Not sure what you would expect up there. That's almost at the county line. It's virtually suburban up there.

[MAF1968]

Originally Posted by nimshady

Personally I'm really disappointed about the development of the former Nabisco factory. The Boulevard can and should be more that strip malls!

Also for the development on the Italian Market, do you know if Anastasi's will return once its built?

Speaking as a 19116 resident I'm very happy with what they are planning for the site. Top Golf will add jobs. Many for the college age kids from the neighborhood. We're getting a Chick Fil-A. I say F-ing A to that. I'm also not a fan of strip malls but when they were tearing down Nabisco I was sure this empty lot would sit here for years until something got done. The old IRS buildings are going to become warehouses. MaST is moving into the Crown Cork property. Things look promising for the Old Budd plant on Red lion that sooner then later a business will move in. (I hope). Houses are being built on the western part of the property. The Blvd will always be a hub for strip malls. It's a main thoroughfare and it is what it is.

[Urbanthusiat]

This article confirms that Morgan and Lewis and Blank Rome are in the market for office space. Might be our best hope for new highrise office anytime soon.

Morgan Lewis, Dechert and Blank Rome have leases expiring in the next couple of years and are analyzing what existing trophy buildings — outside of the space that currently houses them — might accommodate a move. The early conclusion? Trophy space is scarce.

“The short supply of trophy space and demand from these large legal tenants ... you’re talking about an extremely competitive situation,” said Perry Kaplan, a broker with Savills. “These large firms all compete for clients and talent and now they are competing for real estate, too.”

Morgan Lewis is said to be looking for between 200,000 square feet at the low end and upwards of 300,000 square feet. It is in 289,432 square feet at Six Penn Center and its lease expires in 2021. “Unfortunately, we’re not in a position to discuss at this time,” said Emily T. Carhart, a spokeswoman for Morgan Lewis.

Blank Rome occupies 220,000 square feet at One Logan Square. “Our current lease ends January 2022,” Kate L. Tavella, a spokeswoman. “We are in the process of selecting a broker to assist us, and will be exploring any and all options in the market.” Dechert has 235,000 square feet Cira Centre. The firm couldn’t be reached for comment.

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...ok-at.html?iana=hpmvp_phil_news_headline

[Boku]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

This article confirms that Morgan and Lewis and Blank Rome are in the market for office space. Might be our best hope for new highrise office anytime soon.



https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...ok-at.html?iana=hpmvp_phil_news_headline

Yeah, but at the end of the article is this:

The lack of available space could portend new construction and those options include: Brandywine Realty Trust's Schuylkill Yards; Oliver Tyrone Pulver's site at 13th and Market streets; and Parkway Corp.'s parcel at 23rd and Market streets. However, the high cost of new construction and the rents needed to support it makes it a tenuous proposition.

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by Boku

Yeah, but at the end of the article is this:

Tenuous if you build on spec. If one of these first commits to a new building before you break ground with 200k sqft, that should be enough to justify the costs.

[iheartphilly]

^
Maybe that spec office proposal on 21st and Market will accommodate these needs.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by MAF1968

Speaking as a 19116 resident I'm very happy with what they are planning for the site. Top Golf will add jobs. Many for the college age kids from the neighborhood. We're getting a Chick Fil-A. I say F-ing A to that. I'm also not a fan of strip malls but when they were tearing down Nabisco I was sure this empty lot would sit here for years until something got done. The old IRS buildings are going to become warehouses. MaST is moving into the Crown Cork property. Things look promising for the Old Budd plant on Red lion that sooner then later a business will move in. (I hope). Houses are being built on the western part of the property. The Blvd will always be a hub for strip malls. It's a main thoroughfare and it is what it is.

As a resident of Lower Bucks, I agree with this. I am also amped for Shake Shack.

[New2Fishtown]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Tenuous if you build on spec. If one of these first commits to a new building before you break ground with 200k sqft, that should be enough to justify the costs.

The question is whether the law firm in question is comfortable with above-market rents. If the space existed in an existing building, their rent costs would be in the $30s. Going into new construction means their rent costs would reach easily into the $50s, maybe higher. Whether they give a crap about that is unknown. Many of these firms likely pay much higher psf rents for their offices in NYC, SF, Boston, etc, so by that logic alone, what's the big deal. But there are a lot of factors that go into these decisions.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

This article confirms that Morgan and Lewis and Blank Rome are in the market for office space. Might be our best hope for new highrise office anytime soon.



https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...ok-at.html?iana=hpmvp_phil_news_headline

Morgan Lewis to anchor a new tower at 13th & Market? Dechert to anchor a new tower at 23rd & Market? Blank Rome to anchor a new tower at Schuylkill Yards?

Unlikely, but these are three anchor tenants for new towers for sure.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by New2Fishtown

The question is whether the law firm in question is comfortable with above-market rents. If the space existed in an existing building, their rent costs would be in the $30s. Going into new construction means their rent costs would reach easily into the $50s, maybe higher. Whether they give a crap about that is unknown. Many of these firms likely pay much higher psf rents for their offices in NYC, SF, Boston, etc, so by that logic alone, what's the big deal. But there are a lot of factors that go into these decisions.

Add in that you're talking about ultra-trophy space and its even less of a big deal. I would think that 13th and Market site could attract someone like these guys at some point. That's a great location and the plans for that building are killer.

[Jawnadelphia]

^Does the article mention whether the firms are looking only for additional space? or indeed, looking for whole firm re-locations? I believe ML's lease ends at 1701 in 2021.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Morgan Lewis to anchor a new tower at 13th & Market? Dechert to anchor a new tower at 23rd & Market? Blank Rome to anchor a new tower at Schuylkill Yards?

Unlikely, but these are three anchor tenants for new towers for sure.

unless I am missing something this is just a shell game, and then leaves blank space in current rome, pun intended

I would love to see new towers but this seems like no actual new demand

can we get anything but law firms and eds and meds and actual new companies coming or growing in Philly

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

unless I am missing something this is just a shell game, and then leaves blank space in current rome, pun intended

I would love to see new towers but this seems like no actual new demand

can we get anything but law firms and eds and meds and actual new companies coming or growing in Philly

There seem to be a lot of smaller firms - tech, coworking space, satellite offices from suburban companies or companies from other metros - that are coming in and gobbling up the empty office space in Center City.

The BIG problem for Center City is there are NO big anchor tenants willing to anchor a new office building. This represents 3 very real opportunities to land anchor tenants for 2 or 3 new towers in Center City/UCity.

The space they vacate I have no doubt would be back-filled by these smaller firms and satellite offices.

[iamrobk]

As I've mentioned before, I really can't see any law firm in Philly anchoring a new tower, so I wouldn't get my hopes up - they just don't need enough square footage. Maaaaybe if a developer could get both Morgan Lewis and Blank Rome to sign on to a 30-40 story tower at 13th & Market (I could see that being a very attractive location for either firm, for various reasons) we could see something happen, but even then it wouldn't be anything huge. But otherwise I think both firms will either stay where they are or find a few floors somewhere else that they can rent.

Of course, the one thing we shouldn't forget is that law firms like these are prestige whores (for lack of a better description), and they definitely want impressive office spaces to attract and maintain clients. But they don't need 20+ floors in an office building, which is why we're not really going to see them anchor a tower.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

As I've mentioned before, I really can't see any law firm in Philly anchoring a new tower, so I wouldn't get my hopes up - they just don't need enough square footage. Maaaaybe if a developer could get both Morgan Lewis and Blank Rome to sign on to a 30-40 story tower at 13th & Market (I could see that being a very attractive location for either firm, for various reasons) we could see something happen, but even then it wouldn't be anything huge. But otherwise I think both firms will either stay where they are or find a few floors somewhere else that they can rent.

Of course, the one thing we shouldn't forget is that law firms like these are prestige whores (for lack of a better description), and they definitely want impressive office spaces to attract and maintain clients. But they don't need 20+ floors in an office building, which is why we're not really going to see them anchor a tower.

Well let's see, Morgan Lewis is looking for 200k-300k sf. One Logan is about 600k sf total. I don't remember what the proposed 13th and Market square footage was, but it definitely wasn't 600k. If Morgan Lewis were to opt for the higher square footage, I could see them anchoring a new building.

All that being said, I think they are just playing the game. I'm not getting my hopes up for a new tower, but 300k sf is nothing to balk at and it's fun to think of the possibilities, especially if they want trophy space.

EDIT: I just dug back into the threads, and 1301 Market is proposed to be 840k sf...so I was way off. I didn't realize it was going to be that big! So in that case, yes, it would probably need to be a joint effort to get at least that one built.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

Well let's see, Morgan Lewis is looking for 200k-300k sf. One Logan is about 600k sf total. I don't remember what the proposed 13th and Market square footage was, but it definitely wasn't 600k. If Morgan Lewis were to opt for the higher square footage, I could see them anchoring a new building.

All that being said, I think they are just playing the game. I'm not getting my hopes up for a new tower, but 300k sf is nothing to balk at and it's fun to think of the possibilities, especially if they want trophy space.

EDIT: I just dug back into the threads, and 1301 Market is proposed to be 840k sf...so I was way off. I didn't realize it was going to be that big! So in that case, yes, it would probably need to be a joint effort to get at least that one built.

So if these buildings need tenant commitment before they're built, unless some massive company decides to relocate to philly and is looking for 800,000+ square ft. of trophy space, 1301 market is another unicorn in the sky.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Redddog

So if these buildings need tenant commitment before they're built, unless some massive company decides to relocate to philly and is looking for 800,000+ square ft. of trophy space, 1301 market is another unicorn in the sky.

No, not necessarily. An anchor tenant is really only need to take 40-50% of a tower for construction to start. 40% of that is 320,000 sq ft... which is exactly what Morgan Lewis is looking for.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by summersm343

There seem to be a lot of smaller firms - tech, coworking space, satellite offices from suburban companies or companies from other metros - that are coming in and gobbling up the empty office space in Center City.

The BIG problem for Center City is there are NO big anchor tenants willing to anchor a new office building. This represents 3 very real opportunities to land anchor tenants for 2 or 3 new towers in Center City/UCity.

The space they vacate I have no doubt would be back-filled by these smaller firms and satellite offices.

Do you, or anyone, know what the occupancy rate is for CC office space?

A couple of weeks ago in reference to Parkway's noise about 23th and Market one of the articles mentioned that the developer for 1301 Market St. wasn't able to gain control of the site (who knows, maybe he was only offering pennies on the dollar) but it sounded like that possibility is dead.