Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada - Page 164

kwoldtimer · #**3261** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 8:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

When in doubt I always go with the most obvious origin of the name. So if your name is Cerutti, you'll get a "tchuh-rootti" from me until you tell me it's actually "suh-rootti".

Also, it's not just an issue with immigrant names. Some names with deep roots in the country have different pronunciations out there.

For example, for the names Chabot and Tardif they might be pronounced with the last letter either silent or pronounced by different families in Quebec.

The idea of pronouncing the "t" in Chabot or making silent the final "f" of Tardif surprises me.

Acajack · #**3262** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 8:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The idea of pronouncing the "t" in Chabot or making silent the final "f" of Tardif surprises me.

Chabot with the final T pronounced is actually the most common way of saying it by far. Maybe upwards of 90% of families say it that way (off the top of my head).

Ottawa Senators player Thomas Chabot... "shah-butt" in French, though in English they often say "shah-bott".

Tardif, either "tarr-dee" or "tarr-diff" is closer to 50-50. It seems to vary regionally. Montreal and points west is more "-diff" and Quebec city and points east might be more "-dee".

Another name like this is Talbot: either "tal-bo" or "tal-butt".

lio45 · #**3263** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 8:39 PM**

Tardif is always pronounced Tar-dee as far as I know (which is to say, of all the unrelated Tardifs I've met in my life, none of them has pronounced the last 'f')

esquire · #**3264** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 8:41 PM**

I never in a million years would have thought the 'f' in Tardif was silent.

Acajack · #**3265** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 8:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I never in a million years would have thought the 'f' in Tardif was silent.

It isn't (always).

lio45 · #**3266** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 8:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I never in a million years would have thought the 'f' in Tardif was silent.

And you'd obviously have the opposite view, if you were from here

Similarly, I'm sure my natural best-intention guess as to how to pronounce weird Ukrainian stuff from the Prairies would constitute horrible butchering.

lio45 · #**3267** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 8:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

It isn't (always).

Maybe not in Ontario (and New England and Florida), but here it certainly is :p

Acajack · #**3268** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 8:45 PM**

I was thinking that anglos also have different ways of saying the same names.

For example, if I read M(a)cKay, it can rhyme with eye or it can rhyme with hay.

I generally default to "hay" because that's what seems most common in my part of the world.

In Ottawa you have a McKay (MacKay?) Street and also a lake by the same name that were named for a guy who had it rhyme with "eye", but everyone AFAIK makes it rhyme with "hay".

Acajack · #**3269** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 8:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Maybe not in Ontario (and New England and Florida), but here it certainly is :p

My reference for this is a guy I know with that name who lives here in Gatineau. He just happens to be from the northern part of the townships.

He does not pronounce the F at the end of his name. But his Gatineau-born kids do.

According to him the Montreal-based national sports media always used to mispronounce the last name of Quebec Nordiques' player Marc Tardif as "tarr-diff".

lio45 · #**3270** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 8:53 PM**

I'd like to bring to your attention that when you say "points west of downtown Montreal" in this province, you're basically saying Anglo-Canada.

(Even if you all combined definitely aren't a statistically insignificant part of Quebec.)

Tardif, in "the real Quebec" to paraphrase Sarah Palin, is pronounced Tardi :p

Acajack · #**3271** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 8:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

I'd like to bring to your attention that when you say "points west of downtown Montreal" in this province, you're basically saying Anglo-Canada.

(Even if you all combined definitely aren't a statistically insignificant part of Quebec.)

Tardif, in "the real Quebec" to paraphrase Sarah Palin, is pronounced Tardi :p

Well, I said Montreal *and* points west. I betcha most people named Tardif in the Montreal metro area, if they're originally from there, say "tarr-diff". And that plus points roughly west (Laurentides, Outaouais, Abitibi, etc.) is at least half of Quebec's population, or more.

lio45 · #**3272** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 9:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Well, I said Montreal *and* points west. I betcha most people named Tardif in the Montreal metro area, if they're originally from there, say "tarr-diff". And that plus points roughly west (Laurentides, Outaouais, Abitibi, etc.) is at least half of Quebec's population, or more.

I'm slightly skeptical, for one simple reason, usually Sherbrooke is aligned with Francophone Montreal instead of Quebec City, and in this case I know for sure it's Tardi in both Sherbrooke (my "Montreal proxy") and Quebec City.

Of course, exceptions to rules-of-thumb are always possible, as we all know

Acajack · #**3273** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 9:00 PM**

A couple of others:

Boulet - "boo-leh" (rhymes with meh) or "boo-lay". (Also the name Boulay exists - no ambiguity with how that is pronounced.)

Goupil - "goo-pee" or "goo-pill"?

Acajack · #**3274** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 9:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

I'm slightly skeptical, for one simple reason, usually Sherbrooke is aligned with Francophone Montreal instead of Quebec City, and in this case I know for sure it's Tardi in both Sherbrooke (my "Montreal proxy") and Quebec City.

Of course, exceptions to rules-of-thumb are always possible, as we all know

How do you say poteau, arrête and baleine? Like people in Montreal or Quebec City?

lio45 · #**3275** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 9:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

How do you say poteau, arrête and baleine? Like people in Montreal or Quebec City?

Good question. Depends whether I want to make sure I pass for a local in the Quebec City area

I can easily handle both in each of those cases, but now that you made me pause and think, the true natural answer is, in all cases, the Montreal way.

Which, given my Sherbrooke upbringing, confirms what I just said in my previous post.

kwoldtimer · #**3276** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 9:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was thinking that anglos also have different ways of saying the same names.

For example, if I read M(a)cKay, it can rhyme with eye or it can rhyme with hay.

I generally default to "hay" because that's what seems most common in my part of the world.

In Ottawa you have a McKay (MacKay?) Street and also a lake by the same name that were named for a guy who had it rhyme with "eye", but everyone AFAIK makes it rhyme with "hay".

It's probably irrelevant, but "MacKeye" somehow sounds older, more Scottish to me. I would probably go with the "rhymes with hay" version if I were in doubt.

Acajack · #**3277** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 9:08 PM**

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekfusNy_1pI

Laurent Duvernay-Tardif (from Mt-St-Hilaire, a Montreal suburb) introduced by Guy A. Lepage, an on-island Montrealer through and through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekfusNy_1pI

Acajack · #**3278** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 9:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Good question. Depends whether I want to make sure I pass for a local in the Quebec City area

I can easily handle both in each of those cases, but now that you made me pause and think, the true natural answer is, in all cases, the Montreal way.

Which, given my Sherbrooke upbringing, confirms what I just said in my previous post.

Now that I think of it, I believe my kids might say "baleine", "haleine", etc. the Quebec City way. I honestly don't know how that happened. It might be part of a generational pronunciation shift away from more nasal, folkloric sounds.

lio45 · #**3279** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 9:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Now that I think of it, I believe my kids might say "baleine", "haleine", etc. the Quebec City way. I honestly don't know how that happened. It might be part of a generational pronunciation shift away from more nasal, folkloric sounds.

Yeah, I was going to point out that in all cases, the "Montreal way" also sounded somewhat like uncultured old guy from the boonies, when compared to the (more "International French") alternative.

It's not surprising that it's beginning to cease to be a distinguishing factor between kids from various corners of the province.

lio45 · #**3280** Posted **Mar 20, 2019, 9:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekfusNy_1pI

Laurent Duvernay-Tardif (from Mt-St-Hilaire, a Montreal suburb) introduced by Guy A. Lepage, an on-island Montrealer through and through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekfusNy_1pI

Given he's been living in Kansas City, it's plausible the poor guy has stopped fighting the Tardifff mispronounciation by now :p