Philadelphia Transportation Thread

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Why did Mr. skyscraper get banned? Did I miss something?

He got a warning for disrespecting a moderator decision and decided to double down on the disrespect, with predictable results.

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

N&W 611 is going to spend a month at Strasburg, PA: https://www.strasburgrailroad.com/ride/events/fire-up-611-a-reunion-of-steam/

The reason I bring this up is because depending on what route she takes to get there, we could see the first steam locomotive on the Keystone Corridor in roughly 70 years.

Well, since the Strasburg RR's only interchange with the outside world is at Paradise, PA, on the Keystone Corridor, I think that's a given. Unfortunately, though, I think she'll be coming around via Enola so we won't get to see live steam in city limits.

[Parkway]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Well, since the Strasburg RR's only interchange with the outside world is at Paradise, PA, on the Keystone Corridor, I think that's a given. Unfortunately, though, I think she'll be coming around via Enola so we won't get to see live steam in city limits.

However, if you were to keep your ear to the ground a post up at the Lancaster station I imagine some patience would pay off pretty spectacularly. I bought my tickets over lunch so I'll be there on Saturday.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Yeah, why futureproof when you can just build another half-assed DMU line?

I don't see anything half assed about a DMU line. A PATCO extension would require double tracking and expensive electrification with only one benefit of direct Center City access. The Current is a model of how build a modern Interurban line , I don't see why the Glassboro line would be any different. The routing through Camden is expensive I don't know why they don't just extend the current RL tracks to the proposed corridor in South Camden which would pass several new large employers as opposed to the current alignment which passes only one.

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I think that they should get actual DMUs on the RL. Something akin to Budd RDCs. Why not even an RDC? It's proven tech, and transit agencies in the US still use them. Just slap a new prime mover on each of them to meet tier 4 standards and we're good to go.

They need to be low level platform in order to mix with freight and Stadler GTW's can run along the street and deal with tight corners better then the Budds. I would like to see NJT buy Stadler Flirts for the ACL and proposed Cape May service. The Budds could be used as a stop gap for shorter shuttles between Philly and Lindenwold or AC Airport to AC.

Originally Posted by City Wide

When does the proposed NJ budget come out? I've got nothing against this PATCO expansion, and it is time that south Jersey get some transit attention, but the State can't seem to get the Atlantic City train back up and running. I just have a hard time expecting the State to come up with $100K's of bucks.
What's the present running time from the end of the line into CC?

This is no longer a PATCO extension , its just an Interurban Diesel line aka RiverLINE Extension..with some questionable routing and not being extended to Millville like originally planned.

[mcgrath618]

According to the NJT Budget, it's a "Riverline/PATCO extension." They're still looking into the pros/cons of both.
Apropos, I just took PATCO for the first time today. I really think it needs to go further into CC. I was genuinely impressed with how clean, fast, and comfortable it was.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

According to the NJT Budget, it's a "Riverline/PATCO extension." They're still looking into the pros/cons of both.
Apropos, I just took PATCO for the first time today. I really think it needs to go further into CC. I was genuinely impressed with how clean, fast, and comfortable it was.

Wish it went out to West Philadelphia/University City replacing the lightly used Cywnd Branch and extension under Federal Street in Camden and out to Maple Shade would be nice.

[Londonee]

https://www.philly.com/transportation/septa-bus-ridership-transit-loss-20190326.html

Ride sharing must be having a huge impact.

As mostly a leisure rider, the system just isn't built for non-peak-time travel and is just not convenient enough to make me value the cost savings of a bus vs. a ride share in town. There are buses on the weekends through center city that have 30minute headways - which is laughable.

SEPTA and the city need to start treating center city differently - there should be loops and looping cross town service that just goes river to river. (not originating in chestnut hill, passing through center city, and terminating at the stadiums for example).

Basically, multiple routes like the Phlash that is expanded, with less headways, and more coverage.

[mcgrath618]

http://septa.org/strategic-plan/reports/fy-2020-cap-budget-2020-2031-program-proposal.pdf

Budget for FY 2020. They really are preparing for the worst, aren't they?
I really hope this stupid budget matter is settled.

[mcgrath618]

https://www.broadwaylimited1949.com/tickets
The Broadway Limited lives on!
It's a bit expensive but it sounds awesome.

[City Wide]

What major transportation project, on the books or just in your head, would have the biggest impact on the Greater Philly area?
I'd like to see PATCO extend to UC and maybe to the Airport and maybe then head to the sports complex and cross the river on the Walt, but I'll admit as cool as all that might be, I don't think it would be transformative. What would be? True high speed rail into and out of the city? Burying the Vine St. interchange with I-95?

[Cirrus]

^
Turning regional rail into a European-style s-bahn. The infrastructure is already there. Change the operating characteristics, run the trains more often, do things like proof-of-payment like you do for light rail. Treat it like real transit instead of commuter rail.

It might be the biggest transit shame in America that SEPTA has everything it needs to run that kind of amazing system--has already paid to build the infrastructure--and just... doesn't.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by City Wide

What major transportation project, on the books or just in your head, would have the biggest impact on the Greater Philly area?
I'd like to see PATCO extend to UC and maybe to the Airport and maybe then head to the sports complex and cross the river on the Walt, but I'll admit as cool as all that might be, I don't think it would be transformative. What would be? True high speed rail into and out of the city? Burying the Vine St. interchange with I-95?

A new subway going to the Art Museum and the Manayunk/Roxborough area. Could even be a PATCO extension.

[mcgrath618]

https://www.philly.com/transportation/turnpike-suit-dismissed-septa-transit-20190404.html
SEPTA won the lawsuit!

[volguus zildrohar]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

^
Turning regional rail into a European-style s-bahn. The infrastructure is already there. Change the operating characteristics, run the trains more often, do things like proof-of-payment like you do for light rail. Treat it like real transit instead of commuter rail.

It might be the biggest transit shame in America that SEPTA has everything it needs to run that kind of amazing system--has already paid to build the infrastructure--and just... doesn't.

Absolutely. Regional Rail has the largest unrealized potential of, dare I say, any rail system in the country. For a metro of our size the current rapid transit system is woefully out of scale. As you said, everything that is necessary physically is already there it's simply a matter of overcoming the lack of imagination and, because this is Philadelphia, arcane and indefensible union rules.

[domodeez]

This has been in the works for a while - BoltBus finally launched in Wilmington last Friday 3/29 with weekend routes to Baltimore / DC and Philadelphia. If it goes well, look for a service expansion and added route to NYC.

BoltBus just made it easier to get from Wilmington to Baltimore and DC
http://technical.ly/delaware/2019/04/03/boltbus-new-line-from-wilmington-to-baltimore-and-dc/

Some additional details not included in this piece:

Each route offers ten weekly round-trips and operates from Friday to Sunday, with one-way tickets typically under $20.

BoltBus will arrive and depart from the Greyhound Bus Station across from Wilmington Amtrak / SEPTA Train Station.

BoltBus departures for Baltimore / DC:
- Fridays at 9:45 a.m., 2:00 p.m., 4:00 p.m., and 6:45 p.m.
- Saturdays at 8:30 a.m. and 12:45 p.m.
- Sundays at 9:45 a.m., 2:00 p.m., 4:00 p.m., and 6:45 p.m.

BoltBus departures for Philadelphia:
- Fridays at 11:30 a.m., 3:30 p.m., 4:15 p.m., and 8:30 p.m.
- Saturdays at 9:45 a.m. and 2:45 p.m.
- Sundays at 11:30 a.m., 3:30 p.m., 4:15 p.m., and 8:30 p.m.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar

Absolutely. Regional Rail has the largest unrealized potential of, dare I say, any rail system in the country. For a metro of our size the current rapid transit system is woefully out of scale. As you said, everything that is necessary physically is already there it's simply a matter of overcoming the lack of imagination and, because this is Philadelphia, arcane and indefensible union rules.

I'll admit to generally being pro union (I like week ends!) but many unions are foolish in their tunnel vision. How do you see the unions holding back regional rail from becoming more? I know that staffing every train with two employees rubs some people the wrong way, but unless the ride is free, somebody needs to punch your ticket! It seems to me if SEPTA was committed to changing regional rail into something more like mass transit that would mean limited access high platforms, and more frequent service, which would mean more employees not less.
Since all regional rail gets funneled into 4 or 5 central stations, would it be possible to change one line at a time (how could a station like 30th St. be both limited access and open platforms at the same time?) or would the whole system have to undergo one vast change over?
Also I though I've heard that for around 4 hours per day the tunnel going through CC is at full capacity; are there ways of pumping more trains through in these peak hours?
Has anyone even guessed at what the cost would be to make both the hard infrastructure and rolling stock changes? It must be north of 4 or 5 billion.

[eixample]

Originally Posted by Londonee

SEPTA and the city need to start treating center city differently - there should be loops and looping cross town service that just goes river to river. (not originating in chestnut hill, passing through center city, and terminating at the stadiums for example).

Basically, multiple routes like the Phlash that is expanded, with less headways, and more coverage.

I agree exactly with what you are saying. I would like to see a Market Street "Circulator" (that is a term I've heard used in other cities for these kinds of downtown loops) along with a Chestnut and Walnut Circulator. Both staying in Center City and maybe crossing over to 30th Street station territory but no farther. You could also run a Walnut/Chestnut Circulator that goes to 30th Street and another route that goes from Old City on Market then goes around City Hall, up the Parkway to the Art Museum and back. Different branding, different fare structure with an all day pass, then say goodbye to the Phlash. You could also alter various other septa routes like the 17 and 33 which are completely duplicative in Center City and maybe shorten then 42, 21 and other routes like that so they stop at Broad and don't go all the way to the Delaware River

What we really need to get buses running in center City better is better traffic enforcement, including people directing traffic when intersections get really snarled, more video enforcement, including front facing video cameras on Buses that will be used to issue tickets to people blocking traffic, dedicated loading zones for delivery drivers and lyft/Uber pick-up/drop-off, and most of all dedicated bus lanes.

It's interesting you mention the Chestnut Hill to South Philly bus route the 23, since that was split in half a few years ago and now it is the 45 from South Philly to CC and still the 23 from CH to CC. I think that has gone well and it will be interesting to see if they do that with other routes (like for example the 47, which runs from the deep part of South Philly to way up North on 7th and 8th streets) as part of the bus redesign that should be happening in the next few years.

[eixample]

I fantasize about a redeveloped regional rail to match European standards.

Originally Posted by City Wide

Also I though I've heard that for around 4 hours per day the tunnel going through CC is at full capacity; are there ways of pumping more trains through in these peak hours?
Has anyone even guessed at what the cost would be to make both the hard infrastructure and rolling stock changes? It must be north of 4 or 5 billion.

1. It's really about off peak so those capacity issues (I'm sure they could be addressed anyway, since they run more trains in other parts of the world) so i don't think the peak overload issues really matter to running all day rail every half hour.

2. It's pretty much all money Septa will be spending eventually to get regional rail stations up to ADA standards and buy new rolling stock. I don't think there is is much else than that. The proposal is just to do it all at an accelerated pace. And don't do top to bottom regional rail station designs, just put in high-level platforms all around

[mcgrath618]

NHRR 40 to operate an excursion on SEPTA's Lansdale/Doylestown Line!
https://www.newhoperailroad.com/north-wales-150th-anniversary-steam-train-excursion/

[mcgrath618]

Construction on Ardmore's new station is set to begin this summer:
http://www.planthekeystone.com/Pages/Ardmore-Transportation-Center-Project.aspx

[billpa]

Originally Posted by eixample

I agree exactly with what you are saying. I would like to see a Market Street "Circulator" (that is a term I've heard used in other cities for these kinds of downtown loops) .

I like the idea of Circulators as well. They have them in DC. One goes into Georgetown (which is not served at all by Metro rail)...another loops from Union Station down through the Mall.
Recently they made them free of charge, which seems like a good idea, although I was reading that it's led to homeless people riding for hours on end....I have no idea if that's true but something to consider, I suppose.