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  #881  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2018, 7:46 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is online now
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How many of you have WRITTEN to your mayoral candidates about transit? I just sent a long proposal to Cheng and I don`t even live there any more although I`m hoping to move back.

London is not KWC {thank God} so LRT or even BRT as proposed simply won`t work and will never get broad public or business {and hence political} support. London roads are few and very thin with solid development so most widenings are not optional, has no urban freeways, is shaped in more a square as opposed to KWC more long linear urban form, and the route didn`t result in such large demolition or expensive land acquisitions that London`s failed BRT proposal did.


I recommended a far more affordable and faster to build system that will serve tens of thousands of more people, dozens of more destinations, and greatly improve traffic flow...……..BRT-lite. In stead of 2 routes, take the 6 or 7 busiest routes {ie Ham/Westmount/Ox E&W/Well/Rich/Dun} and have Vancouver B-line type buses but enhanced with real shelters with time display and ticket vending machines, POP, articulated and easily identifiable `rapid` logos/buses, fewer stops, level boarding, and que-jumping at key intersections.


What do you guys propose and who have you written?
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  #882  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2018, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
How many of you have WRITTEN to your mayoral candidates about transit?
0 and I don't really care to write to them.

I did write once to my councilor a while back advising to keep the hybrid LRT/BRT system or full LRT because, in my mind, if we're going to tear everything up we may as well do it right.

I've said it many times and I'll say it again. Regardless of how your spin it, BRT is just bus service. There's a certain stigma about riding the bus that does not exist with LRT or subways. The latter attract riders from every demographic and income level.
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  #883  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2018, 6:46 PM
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BRT is just a bus service but what`s wrong with that? Since when does superior transit rely on track and since when are tracks automatically considered better transit? That may work for politicians who never ride the systems but doesn`t for the average rider. The US is an example of this LRT and streetcar mania where monstrous amounts are spent on the LRTs & streetcars and yet get very poor ridership, are bleeding money, and suck crucial infrastructure and operational funding from the bus system all in the name of ribbon cutting.
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  #884  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2018, 10:50 PM
UpstairsCranberry UpstairsCranberry is offline
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0 and I don't really care to write to them.

I did write once to my councilor a while back advising to keep the hybrid LRT/BRT system or full LRT because, in my mind, if we're going to tear everything up we may as well do it right.

I've said it many times and I'll say it again. Regardless of how your spin it, BRT is just bus service. There's a certain stigma about riding the bus that does not exist with LRT or subways. The latter attract riders from every demographic and income level.
True. I wonder how much Kitchener got from other levels of government. It seems Ottawa and Hamilton got favourable funding. Both of these cities have larger populations, with Ottawa being twice the size. Yet both have lower ridership numbers. I fact, Ottawa's is abysmal when compared to London. Nearly 900k pop, but only 21 or is it 23 miilion trips (Hamilton is the other number). London's 380k has 24 million trips a year. Deapite the number of trips lost in 2015 from less trips as a result of people on ODSP or OW no lo ger needing to take a trip to the bank every month.

If people are already complainging about 30 million that will most likely be coming from property taxes, if the city cannot get more funding for LRT, people would be complaining even more.
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  #885  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 1:53 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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, Ottawa's is abysmal when compared to London. Nearly 900k pop, but only 21 or is it 23 miilion trips
Where do people come up with such bullshit?

Ottawa had 96.5 million riders in 2016.

http://www.octranspo.com/about-octranspo/reports_and_stats

Ottawa will probably break 100 million when the LRT opens in 2019.

Dated data. But the point is very much valid. Ottawa has exceptional modal share for a city of its size:

https://humantransit.org/2010/10/further-cause-for-canadian-triumphalism.html
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  #886  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 2:46 AM
UpstairsCranberry UpstairsCranberry is offline
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Where do people come up with such bullshit?

Ottawa had 96.5 million riders in 2016.

http://www.octranspo.com/about-octranspo/reports_and_stats

Ottawa will probably break 100 million when the LRT opens in 2019.

Dated data. But the point is very much valid. Ottawa has exceptional modal share for a city of its size:

https://humantransit.org/2010/10/further-cause-for-canadian-triumphalism.html
I am confused where I got that number from. Hamilton's checks out and I included Kitchener on other boards and those numbers check out. I don't know what went wrong...

In 2011 Ottawa was above 100 million.
http://www2.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/FFEACBA1-5266-43A8-BCE4-36DA4768C894/0/Feb21Item47.pdf

It would seem KW's ridership in 2011 at 19.7 million is still being stated at 19.7 in 2017.
http://www.grt.ca/en/about-grt/about-grt.aspx
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  #887  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2018, 9:41 PM
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Just want to share that there is a thread about this on the Urban Toronto Website.

It's been blowing up as of late, mostly due to the election results

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/london-rapid-transit-in-design.21502/

Interesting to see what outsiders say about the plan.
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  #888  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2018, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by haljackey View Post
Just want to share that there is a thread about this on the Urban Toronto Website.

It's been blowing up as of late, mostly due to the election results

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/london-rapid-transit-in-design.21502/

Interesting to see what outsiders say about the plan.
Where is all the talk here in London about LRT tunnelling? Other than the Richmond tunnel, I don't recall any other talk of tunnels, and there sure wasn't much support for that one, as this Keith guy on that thread seems to be saying. And Michael_can isn't aware that Richmond isn't Highway 4 anymore. Not that whatever the designation was in no way compares Richmond to the DVP.
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  #889  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2018, 12:31 PM
UpstairsCranberry UpstairsCranberry is offline
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Originally Posted by Djeffery View Post
Where is all the talk here in London about LRT tunnelling? Other than the Richmond tunnel, I don't recall any other talk of tunnels, and there sure wasn't much support for that one, as this Keith guy on that thread seems to be saying. And Michael_can isn't aware that Richmond isn't Highway 4 anymore. Not that whatever the designation was in no way compares Richmond to the DVP.
Yeah, if Richmond was DVP, it would meet the same resistence as the Allen Rd continuong down through Spadina.
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  #890  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2018, 10:42 AM
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London area CMA population growth.

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/london-area-leaves-sluggish-population-growth-behind

London has historically had a low but steady growth. For those who predict the city would have 500,000 by 2020 and 600,000 by 2030. Think again.

The City itself will likely be still under 450,000 by 2030.
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  #891  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2018, 12:00 PM
UpstairsCranberry UpstairsCranberry is offline
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London area CMA population growth.

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/london-area-leaves-sluggish-population-growth-behind

London has historically had a low but steady growth. For those who predict the city would have 500,000 by 2020 and 600,000 by 2030. Think again.

The City itself will likely be still under 450,000 by 2030.
450k is the number BRT Business Case uses for 2035. So not sure where peole are getting 500 or 600k.
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  #892  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2018, 2:25 AM
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So now that the new council is sworn in, do you think they are going to try and scrap the BRT completely? I was reading somewhere that it would be in London's interest to keep the plan, or else they won't get the funding they were promised.
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  #893  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2019, 6:44 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is online now
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So what exactly is going on with the BRT?
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  #894  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2019, 8:50 PM
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I know that today, a house that the city bought on the southside of Dundas near Ashland as part of the BRT property purchases was demolished. But to be fair, it really needed to go lol.
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  #895  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2019, 5:37 AM
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I never agreed with either the LRT or BRT plan as proposed. London has a far different geographical layout than KW or Hamilton and has a very solid built urban form unlike KW. London has no wide corridors to take advantage of and the amount of demolitions for either the BRT or LRT was simply too great.

What London needs is a BRT-lite system like Vancouver's exceptionally successful B-Line routes but with better infrastructure. Take the 10 busiest routes, put in REAL bus shelters with ticket vending and time arrival times, articulated buses, level all-door boarding platforms, POP, far fewer stops, que-jumping lanes at the most congested intersections, and run the buses frequently. It would provide much faster and reliable transit to all areas of the city, serve tens of thousands more people and hundreds of more destinations, could be very easily expanded, cheap and fast to implement and still qualify for fed/prov funding, wouldn't require any expensive or controversial land aquisition, and would increase the speed of the vehicular traffic along the routes as well.

You guys should be talking to the mayor about this idea and I think I am going to call the City as well as London needs better transportation and those infrastructure dollars aren't going to last forever.
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  #896  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2019, 11:04 AM
GreatTallNorth2 GreatTallNorth2 is offline
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You guys should be talking to the mayor about this idea and I think I am going to call the City as well as London needs better transportation and those infrastructure dollars aren't going to last forever.
Ok, just on hold right now with the mayor, what should I tell him we want?

Just kidding, you are probably right that your plan would have a big immediate impact. Having said that, I am finding the congestion in the city to be getting worse all the time and I do see the need for dedicated lanes if brt is going to work during those busy times of the day. I’m all for more express routes though.
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  #897  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2019, 10:54 PM
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The bus-only center lanes can work depensing on the service itself. It's no an automatic to higher ridership as York Region has proved with it's very large and expensive BRT system which has resulted in LOWER ridership.

The BRT as it currently stands is dead and frankly I'm glad. What I'm not glad about is London not improving it's transit service or getting needed prov/fed infrastructure funding. Remember many Londoners would actually see their commute time INCREASE with the current proposal as outer areas will now have to transfer onto the BRT. A larger BRT-lite system woulb be fast, efficient, and be much more expansive and serve many more destinations and tens of thousands of more residents, transfer free. It moves traffic much faster as well due to fewer stops and much shorter dwell times.

No demolitions, no lanes removals, no large scale disruptive road construction, no transfer, longer routes, more people served, more destinations, serves outer areas including the airport, easily expandable, comfortable, reliable, increases car traffic speeds, all of it qualifies for fed/prov infrastructure funding but costs less so less of a demand from London taxpayers themselves, and no business opposition as it runs on current routes and stops. All this and it's politically palatable as well.

BTW...……….I sent off a letter to BRT planning chair at the SHIFT office detailing all of this. Have you guys done the same or probably more effectively gone to one of the media outlets like TV or especially the LFP and presented much a scheme? We can't collectively bitch if we don't act and time is of the essence.
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  #898  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2019, 12:51 AM
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No demolitions, no lanes removals, no large scale disruptive road construction, no transfer, longer routes, more people served, more destinations, serves outer areas including the airport, easily expandable, comfortable, reliable, increases car traffic speeds, all of it qualifies for fed/prov infrastructure funding but costs less so less of a demand from London taxpayers themselves, and no business opposition as it runs on current routes and stops. All this and it's politically palatable as well.
You're basically describing the Express buses that the LTC runs. 3 routes so far, that have very little stops in between. I don't like the idea simply because if all we do is that, it isn't going to change anything. London's traffic woes are on Londoners themselves. If people stopped driving like clueless assholes London would never have any traffic jams. Another thing is the LTC's current routes are useless. If you want the LTC to be effective, they need to scrap every single route they have now (maybe keep the express routes) and start over. Stop with the nonsense routes that go in and out of neighbourhoods or incredibly long routes, those messed up routes are the reasons people can never transfer on buses easily.

They need to create a grid system here in London. It would be way more effective, have less routes, more buses running on routes, easier to transfer buses, etc. We also need to figure out something else for transit, and I hope we do continue with BRT or a better version of it. Simply because we can't keep leaving London in the past. So many other cities have their road infrastructure in check, good transit, and drivers who aren't afraid of the gas pedal. London to me feels like a big old retirement home.
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  #899  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2019, 1:15 AM
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It kills me that we live in Byron and my kids go to Saunders and the LTC isn't a viable option for them to take if they have to go early or stay late. But they can take one bus all the way to Clarke Rd SS lol
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  #900  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2019, 3:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
The bus-only center lanes can work depensing on the service itself. It's no an automatic to higher ridership as York Region has proved with it's very large and expensive BRT system which has resulted in LOWER ridership.

The BRT as it currently stands is dead and frankly I'm glad. What I'm not glad about is London not improving it's transit service or getting needed prov/fed infrastructure funding. Remember many Londoners would actually see their commute time INCREASE with the current proposal as outer areas will now have to transfer onto the BRT. A larger BRT-lite system woulb be fast, efficient, and be much more expansive and serve many more destinations and tens of thousands of more residents, transfer free. It moves traffic much faster as well due to fewer stops and much shorter dwell times.

No demolitions, no lanes removals, no large scale disruptive road construction, no transfer, longer routes, more people served, more destinations, serves outer areas including the airport, easily expandable, comfortable, reliable, increases car traffic speeds, all of it qualifies for fed/prov infrastructure funding but costs less so less of a demand from London taxpayers themselves, and no business opposition as it runs on current routes and stops. All this and it's politically palatable as well.

BTW...……….I sent off a letter to BRT planning chair at the SHIFT office detailing all of this. Have you guys done the same or probably more effectively gone to one of the media outlets like TV or especially the LFP and presented much a scheme? We can't collectively bitch if we don't act and time is of the essence.
I guess we are now fellow Metro Vancouverites.

The B-Line network, as I understand it, is basically express articulated buses running every 10 minutes or better, generally not with dedicated lanes. That would be good for London, but it needs to be more extensive of a network than the BRT proposal. In some cases B-Line routes have been replaced by Skytrain routes, notably the Canada Line and the recent Millennium Line extension to Coquitlam.

Ironically there’s a huge controversy over the addition of another B-Line route in West Vancouver. The residents there are very, very similar to Old North in London.
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