General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Interestingly on this topic I wonder if any of us have actually been in the parking garages for new construction in Phoenix. Are these garages being used near capacity? If so then I'd say the spaces are needed. In San Francisco many people don't have cars so I would agree the parking requirements are outdated and useless, but in Phoenix I don't feel like that's the case. Even in Chicago in South Loop and West Loop (two neighborhoods full of new construction) new buildings have more parking than you'd think necessary but it's being utilized.

I guess my point is that if they need it in a city which is heavily reliant on public transportation, we certainly need it here.

A survey of parking utilization would produce interesting data, but its applicability would be limited by the fact that when parking is abundant with little or no obvious cost to the end user, it can create its own demand. To measure the true "need" for parking (in other words, the inelastic demand) would require 1) unbundling parking from rent paid by residential tenants; salaries paid to employees; and the cost of goods, meals, and services purchased by retail customers 2) letting developers build parking based on their perception of market demand rather than government mandate.

As for comparison with other cities, remember it's not just San Francisco that has moved away from minimums. As you state, that's a city with greater transit penetration and higher walk appeal. Minneapolis has somewhat better transit than Phoenix, but is still often seen as a car-oriented city. Hartford and Buffalo are definitely more car-oriented than Phoenix. If they can scrap parking minimums, I think Phoenix can do the same, at least within footprint of the light rail corridor, without bringing on carmageddon.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Interestingly on this topic I wonder if any of us have actually been in the parking garages for new construction in Phoenix. Are these garages being used near capacity? If so then I'd say the spaces are needed. In San Francisco many people don't have cars so I would agree the parking requirements are outdated and useless, but in Phoenix I don't feel like that's the case. Even in Chicago in South Loop and West Loop (two neighborhoods full of new construction) new buildings have more parking than you'd think necessary but it's being utilized.

I guess my point is that if they need it in a city which is heavily reliant on public transportation, we certainly need it here.

I've been in a few. Specifically, the new garage across from AZ Center's garage on 5th that I frequent quite often for some good views from the top level. That garage is only about 1/4 full at any given time of day and no one is hardly parked there in the evenings. Same can be said with a few of the other newer garages I've been in.

Interestingly, the only garage I've really ever had a hard time finding parking is US Bank Tower.

[TakeFive]

I expect ride-sharing to have a significant impact on city owned public garages.

At Sky Harbor I've never seen anything so crazy yet amazing. The ride-sharing area on the north side of T4 has been lengthened to accommodate at least 15 vehicles and when it's busy they double park cars so they don't stick out into the thru lane.

Somehow I figured out how to trick the App so that I never have to join the 50-100 drivers waiting in the Queue (for each App). I usually end up getting pinged and take a U-turn at 44th and Madison. Because I come in on the south side I have to circle around to the north side. Your riders typically follow your cars movement in their own App so that when I pull up somebody will give me a Hi-sign. I park, check name and am loaded and gone withing 5 minutes. Essentially anyone coming to town for conferences is likely to ride share. Only if you have to make lots of business calls would you need to rent a car.

To exit2lef's point that with soooo much public parking it becomes more of a tossup for ball games etc. Still I know many already prefer ride share to the driving hassle with parking etc. Hard to beat curbside service.

What I'm saying is that the City could survive and thrive just fine with half the number of spaces.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I That garage is only about 1/4 full at any given time of day and no one is hardly parked there in the evenings. Same can be said with a few of the other newer garages I've been in.

Is anyone tracking this? I remember the complaint about the Garage Mahal before the light rail even opened was that it was never more than half full.

The 2014 downtown traffic study didn't really look at parking that extensively and the last parking study is apparently from 2006 which seems way out of date. If they want to redevelop the Hyatt Regency garage, it would be nice to know those 500 spaces are needed. I suspect they're not, especially considering the better uses you could get out of that site which will no doubt include a smorgasbord of parking as well.

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by combusean

Is anyone tracking this? I remember the complaint about the Garage Mahal before the light rail even opened was that it was never more than half full.

The 2014 downtown traffic study didn't really look at parking that extensively and the last parking study is apparently from 2006 which seems way out of date. If they want to redevelop the Hyatt Regency garage, it would be nice to know those 500 spaces are needed. I suspect they're not, especially considering the better uses you could get out of that site which will no doubt include a smorgasbord of parking as well.

I'm just praying for some super-charismatic person to create a viral TED Talk where she/he talks about how to convert parking garages to livable low-cost housing to increase density. Reduce the housing and transportation issues at the same time. /wish

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by DesertRay

I'm just praying for some super-charismatic person to create a viral TED Talk where she/he talks about how to convert parking garages to livable low-cost housing to increase density. Reduce the housing and transportation issues at the same time. /wish

I'd have to see one done but this sounds YUCK - ceiling heights are often very low (I'm short and can jump and touch the ceiling in many parking garages) and they are often on angled decks that would be impossible to convert to anything useful that I can immediately think of . . .

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by KEVINphx

I'd have to see one done but this sounds YUCK - ceiling heights are often very low (I'm short and can jump and touch the ceiling in many parking garages) and they are often on angled decks that would be impossible to convert to anything useful that I can immediately think of . . .

Angled floors are all the rage!

[exit2lef]

There have been some recent attempts to design garages that are easy to convert:

https://www.wired.com/2016/11/time-think-living-old-parking-garages/

https://www.curbed.com/2017/4/26/15421594/parking-garages-driverless-cars-gensler

A lot of this is based on hype about the projected impact of autonomous vehicles, but it's still a good conversation to have. Retrofitting older garages with angled floors and low ceilings would be more challenging. Most of those garages should eventually be demolished if not needed.

[Obadno]

4.3 %! Q32017- Q32018 which is high even for us!

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2019/02/28/arizona-among-top-statesfor-gdp-growth.html

Arizona’s GDP grew 4.3 percent in the 12-month period through the end of the third quarter of 2018.

The increase was the third-largest percentage growth nationwide, after Washington and Utah, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Information services, which includes information technology systems and support and information systems, was the leading contributor to the state’s growth.

Chris Camacho, president and CEO of the Greater Phoenix Economic Council, told the Business Journal it was “pretty astounding” to see such a high level of growth year-over-year.

“It shows an overall healthy economy that’s less dependent on construction,” Camacho said, adding there are about 350 companies that are seriously evaluating metro Phoenix as a destination for expansion, many of which work in information services.

Camacho said growth in Phoenix has gone beyond call centers to more essential back-office operations and technology jobs, and he expects the trend to continue into next year.

“I do believe we will see six to eight more quarters of positive economic momentum,” Camacho said, adding that the 4.3 percent growth was even higher than he expected. “I was expecting it to be strong, but to see 4.3 [percent)] that’s the market clicking on all cylinders.”

Camacho said he is also anticipating positive growth for the Phoenix metro’s GDP, which historically has outpaced the state overall.

[biggus diggus]

Ramble on 1st avenue has already closed and reopened us another restaurant called daily jam. Is such a terrible retail space there's going to be a lot of turnover there.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Ramble on 1st avenue has already closed and reopened us another restaurant called daily jam. Is such a terrible retail space there's going to be a lot of turnover there.

I think mean you NCounter? If so, I did a quick search and sounds like it's just a re-branding. The NCounter on Mill in Tempe is also now known as Daily Jam. Sounds like it may stay after all even with Snooze opening down the street

[biggus diggus]

You're right, I was thinking Scramble was there not nCounter. Scramble's the place not far from my house. All these breakfast restaurants are confusing.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Obadno

4.3 %! Q32017- Q32018 which is high even for us!

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2019/02/28/arizona-among-top-statesfor-gdp-growth.html

This is incredible. You can tell we're headed in the right path due to all the traffic unfortunately. 6-8 more quarters of growth? Wonder what that will bring us downtown/midtown...

[biggus diggus]

Toyo West building looks like it's coming down and there is a zoning hearing sign asking for residential unit limit no maximum. Lots of workers and a roll away.

[xymox]

Just curious - but do we have a tally of all the tower cranes currently operating across the metro & state? I recall an article I read a couple years ago about the ‘tower construction boom’ in the US had all the ‘hot’ areas listed - and at the time it said 12 were active in PHX (most in Tempe at the time). Would be an interesting stat to know...

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Toyo West building looks like it's coming down and there is a zoning hearing sign asking for residential unit limit no maximum. Lots of workers and a roll away.

We heard that case at the Encanto VPC last month. The (new) Macayo's is going away too, along with the old savings and loan building. 252 units, 4 stories.

[exit2lef]

"The Dutch Bros. at the northwest corner of Central Avenue and Camelback Road, which has created traffic and parking issues almost since the day it first opened, will shortly be closing.

While a firm date to shut down Dutch Bros. at 4 W. Camelback Road has not yet been set, the closing itself was confirmed at a Feb. 15 Phoenix Zoning Adjustment hearing. A lawyer representing Dutch Bros. said at the hearing that a new location is planned to open further west, at 140 W. Camelback Road."

http://northcentralnews.net/2019/features/dutch-bros-at-busy-corner-to-close/

It's about time. The customers of this establishment have long been blocking the bike lanes on Central, the bus pull-out on Camelback, and even regular travel lanes. The store had to close its walk-up window to discourage customers who arrive by car from parking in spots assigned to nearby businesses, but that drove away some of the pedestrian traffic, mostly students from nearby high schools. This corner location across from a busy light rail station was never appropriate for a drive-thru business. The proposed new location is just west of the current one -- across from the Newton. I'm not sure it will be much better there.

[biggus diggus]

Thank god. I cringe every time I see the line of obesity blocking traffic lanes, bus access, bike lanes, crosswalks, neighboring business access, and whatever else. It's not Dutch Brothers fault and I don't like the idea that they're being targeted, it's simply such high demand they can't keep people away.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Thank god. I cringe every time I see the line of obesity blocking traffic lanes, bus access, bike lanes, crosswalks, neighboring business access, and whatever else. It's not Dutch Brothers fault and I don't like the idea that they're being targeted, it's simply such high demand they can't keep people away.

I don't think the store is being singled out for being a Dutch Bros. franchise, even if Kimber Lanning is the head of Local First AZ, which promotes locally owned businesses. It's the location that's a problem -- too much traffic there of all modes (cars, buses, trains, pedestrians, bikes) and too many small businesses with limited parking nearby. In the article, the franchisee says that with 20/20 hindsight, he would not have chosen that site. I wonder if Dutch Bros. has ever considered developing a smaller kiosk-based model that would be suitable for walk-up traffic in more urban areas.

[azsunsurfer]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I don't think the store is being singled out for being a Dutch Bros. franchise, even if Kimber Lanning is the head of Local First AZ, which promotes locally owned businesses. It's the location that's a problem -- too much traffic there of all modes (cars, buses, trains, pedestrians, bikes) and too many small businesses with limited parking nearby. In the article, the franchisee says that with 20/20 hindsight, he would not have chosen that site. I wonder if Dutch Bros. has ever considered developing a smaller kiosk-based model that would be suitable for walk-up traffic in more urban areas.

This would do so well Downtown if they did....I heard that some of the locations in Oregon have "bike lane" drive thrus.