Highways in Canada

[ssiguy]

The proposed freeway network would have largely avoided any of the built-up areas of the city at the time

It wasn't just the city of London however but QP that played a roll as well. The very powerful and well monied Labatt's family has property right at the north end of the city and they applied political heat on the Davis government to put an end to the project It was not only going to be a London freeway but also part of the 402 from Sarnia The Labatt's family would have none of it and hence the rather odd route the 402 takes today.

The 401 was also suppose to be a type of commuter route for the city roughly 2km north of where it is now which was still totally non-developed land at the time. Again political pressure changed the route The politicians from St.Thomas demanded that the route be more southerly so as to come closer to St.Thomas which is why the 401 is now nearly dead centre between StThomas and London.

There is also a difference between Vancouver and London on the freeway debate.......Vancouver fought tooth and nail against any freeway in the city while in London, although there was certainly some push back, it basically was cancelled because London couldn't get it's shit together. This is the same problem with the BRT Nearly every Londoner {including the well oiled anti-BRT crowd} make it clear that London needs far better transit but London is so 'conservative' and risk adverse that it's always been easier for politicians just to do nothing.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Which is absolutely crazy. Name me one port city that doesn't want a major road network to help it get goods to markets. What is Vancouver going to do when the money stops flowing from China? The CCP is in the process of trying to get funds taken out of China illegally back into the country. This is going to hurt Vancouver and B.C. a lot sooner than they think.

There is no port city on the planet without a good freeway system and to not even have ANY of the ports accessible by a freeway is truly absurd. There is one major project that Victoria has announced but I didn't include it because it won't make any difference They are finally going to replace the Pattula Bridge between Surrey & NuWest This is ONLY because the damn thing is in danger of falling down and is incredibly dangerous to drive over because the lanes are so bloody thin. Such a bridge would never have even been allowed to be built anywhere else in the country. It is terminally congested but that won't change as it is a 4 lane bridge being replaced by another 4 lane bridge

As for what the province will do when the Chinese money dries up, well successive governments have simply built an economy on the premise that it never will. Even with the NDP now going after money laundering by the Chinese, their new budget with all it's surpluses for the next 3 years is based on revenue that will see 'mildly' lower home sales this year with a reduction in province wide prices of just 2% and the notion that it will completely rebound next year In BC this is essential as a whopping amount of both economic growth and provincial finances relies on housing revenue.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

There is no port city on the planet without a good freeway system and to not even have ANY of the ports accessible by a freeway is truly absurd.

Really, you've studied all the ports in the world and found that all except Vancouver have a good freeway system?

I'm not going to defend Vancouver, but it objectively does have freeways. No they don't go directly to the port but I could show you numerous examples of other ports that don't have that luxury.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Really, you've studied all the ports in the world and found that all except Vancouver have a good freeway system?

I'm not going to defend Vancouver, but it objectively does have freeways. No they don't go directly to the port but I could show you numerous examples of other ports that don't have that luxury.

Major ports?

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Major ports?

How major is major, and what do you classify as 'freeway'? Halifax doesn't, most of the ports in the UK don't have a freeway right up to the shore either.

[yaletown_fella]

I thought London was supposed to get an Edmonton style ring road freeway back in the early 90s.

[Dengler Avenue]

Then, as always, politics happened.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

And now they regret it. The province gave them what seems like an eternity to decide and even if agreed to a different route but it still wasn't good enough. Cities need roads and they need to go where people live and work. The fact that the province was going to pay the vast majority of the bill makes it even sadder.

Londoners remind me of what I've seen in some American cities where they will reject infrastructure investment from a higher level of government because they think they know better whether actually right or wrong.

I lived in London, ON for a couple of years and never found the traffic to be bad anywhere in the city. London has a grid system of roads and you aren't confined to one specific road in most cases to get to another part of the city so it is actually okay without freeways. The traffic flows quite well. London is a very nice looking city.

Kitchener-Waterloo has freeways and it makes more sense because the main roads twist and turn, criss-cross and change direction. The Conestoga Parkway takes you around all of the confusion but the traffic doesn't flow well in the area. K-W also doesn't look nearly as nice as London.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I lived in London, ON for a couple of years and never found the traffic to be bad anywhere in the city. London has a grid system of roads and you aren't confined to one specific road in most cases to get to another part of the city so it is actually okay without freeways. The traffic flows quite well. London is a very nice looking city.

Outside of rush hours, at-grade rail crossings and choke points, you are actually correct. I have lived in London all my life and the complaints people have about the traffic issues in this city are inflated.

However, London's grid system is quickly approaching capacity. A freeway around the city (402 to the north) would have helped relieve some congestion, especially for those going from one end of the city to the other.

The proposed Bus Rapid Transit system will not run on any dedicated transitways. It will all be built on existing roads due to a lack of space. People are very against this as taking existing travel lanes away for transit-only almost seems like a road narrowing project (although overall carrying capacity of the road will increase).

If London had a freeway, there would still be enough capacity on the roads proposed for BRT. Without freeways and/or BRT, London is doomed to choke in traffic (even with some proposed widenings here and there) if it's current population growth continues.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Outside of rush hours, at-grade rail crossings and choke points, you are actually correct. I have lived in London all my life and the complaints people have about the traffic issues in this city are inflated.

However, London's grid system is quickly approaching capacity. A freeway around the city (402 to the north) would have helped relieve some congestion, especially for those going from one end of the city to the other.

The proposed Bus Rapid Transit system will not run on any dedicated transitways. It will all be built on existing roads due to a lack of space. People are very against this as taking existing travel lanes away for transit-only almost seems like a road narrowing project (although overall carrying capacity of the road will increase).

If London had a freeway, there would still be enough capacity on the roads proposed for BRT. Without freeways and/or BRT, London is doomed to choke in traffic (even with some proposed widenings here and there) if it's current population growth continues.

I do agree that a freeway around the city would be helpful due to growth in traffic and population. It also wouldn't ruin London's overall appearance. I used to have to drive from the 401 to the North end and took Highbury and I always thought that that the Veterans Memorial Parkway should have been made a freeway and then extended around the North end which I'm assuming has been proposed. I haven't been following it at all since I lived there so sorry if I'm not up to date about what's going on.

Another things that I thought strange was how Richmond Street should have been connected to Wellington Road. I know that Victoria Park is in the way but a new connecting road could be built by the Thames River. That would have North-South flow without people having to make turns and slowing traffic downtown.

[Ottawaresident]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Kitchener-Waterloo has freeways and it makes more sense because the main roads twist and turn, criss-cross and change direction. The Conestoga Parkway takes you around all of the confusion but the traffic doesn't flow well in the area. K-W also doesn't look nearly as nice as London.

K-W has one freeway. The Conestoga. The major roads (King, Weber, Erb, Bridgeport) are laid out in a confusing way, and the roadwork there is perpetual and perennial. The 8's access is horrible.

I should keep my mouth shut about cities I don't ever visit, but I think London is the largest city in North America that doesn't have a freeway. CTV carries an article that is about widening Wonderland Road. I don't know much, but all major cities (K-W Toronto Ottawa London) Should at least have a peripheral bypass. Does anyone have the freeway plans or maps? And was anyone shut out on Friday?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

K-W has one freeway. The Conestoga. The major roads (King, Weber, Erb, Bridgeport) are laid out in a confusing way, and the roadwork there is perpetual and perennial. The 8's access is horrible.

I should keep my mouth shut about cities I don't ever visit, but I think London is the largest city in North America that doesn't have a freeway. CTV carries an article that is about widening Wonderland Road. I don't know much, but all major cities (K-W Toronto Ottawa London) Should at least have a peripheral bypass. Does anyone have the freeway plans or maps? And was anyone shut out on Friday?

Winnipeg doesn't have one... there are several "almost a freeways", but none of them meet the standard of not having any at-grade crossings.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

K-W has one freeway. The Conestoga. The major roads (King, Weber, Erb, Bridgeport) are laid out in a confusing way, and the roadwork there is perpetual and perennial. The 8's access is horrible.

I should keep my mouth shut about cities I don't ever visit, but I think London is the largest city in North America that doesn't have a freeway. CTV carries an article that is about widening Wonderland Road. I don't know much, but all major cities (K-W Toronto Ottawa London) Should at least have a peripheral bypass. Does anyone have the freeway plans or maps? And was anyone shut out on Friday?

Technically the 401 is within the city limits. Technically, the southern end of Highbury Ave is a freeway.

[Ottawaresident]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Technically the 401 is within the city limits. Technically, the southern end of Highbury Ave is a freeway.

Technically Technically doesn't count.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

Technically Technically doesn't count.

Well then, Ottawa does not have freeways either....

[Ottawaresident]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Well then, Ottawa does not have freeways either....

London's is 10 km from downtown (London/Wellington). Ottawa's is 2km from Parliament Hill.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

London's is 10 km from downtown (London/Wellington). Ottawa's is 2km from Parliament Hill.

So?

Toronto has one that is adjacent to the CN Tower. Does that mean that by Toronto standards, Ottawa's are too far away?

[Metro-One]

In my view Winnipeg is the largest urban area in a developed nation with no true freeway that I have seen.

In fact I would say given the centralized population, population size, and topography Manitoba has the worst highway system in Canada.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

In fact I would say given the centralized population, population size, and topography Manitoba has the worst highway system in Canada.

Given the abomination of the highway system in BC, that's quite a claim!!!

[hipster duck]

I'd say BC has the worst highway system in the developed world.

I haven't been to Manitoba, but the Manitoban cities (OK, Winnipeg, Portage-la-Prairie and Brandon), at least seem to have 4-lane bypass roads.

Vancouver's highway system is roughly the same size as Ottawa's - probably less, if you also count the highways in Gatineau. This is a city more than twice the size of Ottawa, and Ottawa's freeway network is already below average in sufficiency, I would say.

Victoria doesn't have a highway. It has two roads which have a couple of stretches with exits on them that peter out into arterial surface roads on either end.

Kelowna has 200,000 people and the whole region is dependent on one, jammed arterial road.

There's only one road leading out of Victoria to the rest of Vancouver island (the majority of whom live within 2 hours of Victoria) and it's a 2-lane highway.