O-Train Line 2/4 [Stage 2 | Greenboro to Limebank/Airport] | In Service

[Allandale25]

Big meeting today.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/mayor-meet-premier-lrt2-funding-1.5032532

[Ottawaresident]

Well this thing isn't going to have more delays is it?

[JohnnyRenton]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Caroline Mehan was on Ottawa Today with Mark Sutcliffe today, February 26 at 11 a.m. According to her, we cannot eliminate stations or any parts of the proposed project (like cutting out the east as many have suggested) to bring down the cost. Doing that would trigger a new competition and we would start from scratch (9 minute mark).

https://www.1310news.com/audio/ottawa-today/

That wasn't discussed as part of the interview, but no doubt Council would have the option if sign one contract, but not the other. Of course eliminating the Confederation contract would leave us with nothing but a stub in the center of the city and there is no rational for canceling the Trillium contract because it came in on budget, not to mention the backlash from the south-end that would suffer through a second cancellation in 13 years.

Going back to tender a shorter line could result in new proposals more expensive that the first for less return.

The Confederation Line contracts should absolutely be left alone. Now that the line has started, it needs to be expanded as quickly as possible. Maybe it isn't perfect, but its still going to meet the needs of the network.

And I know there would be a bit of backlash about delaying the Trillium Line if a new round of proposals was issued for it. But I also don't think it wouldn't be the worst decision either. The Trillium Line has become transit designed by committee and there are a lot of questionable aspects of the plan, as it stands today. Its value has been compromised and it is possible that a second wave of modernization could fix the outstanding issues, but there should be definitive proof that will be the case. A reset on LRT plans in 2010 did wonders for the core of the LRT network, and a reset on the Trillium Line could benefit it greatly in the mid- to long-term.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by occheetos

scrutinizing the pictures a little more...



this is walkley station. Why are there two sets of tracks in the picture? Secondly, why is there a glass wall spanning the entire length of the platform edge?

These must have been some really cheap renders.

Also featured: Bus shelters (which you could argue is appropriate for walkley).

walkey

Typo in the rendering doesn't bode well...

[Kitchissippi]

So the new Trillium line platform at Bayview will be used for about a year and then scrapped?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRenton

The Confederation Line contracts should absolutely be left alone. Now that the line has started, it needs to be expanded as quickly as possible. Maybe it isn't perfect, but its still going to meet the needs of the network.

And I know there would be a bit of backlash about delaying the Trillium Line if a new round of proposals was issued for it. But I also don't think it wouldn't be the worst decision either. The Trillium Line has become transit designed by committee and there are a lot of questionable aspects of the plan, as it stands today. Its value has been compromised and it is possible that a second wave of modernization could fix the outstanding issues, but there should be definitive proof that will be the case. A reset on LRT plans in 2010 did wonders for the core of the LRT network, and a reset on the Trillium Line could benefit it greatly in the mid- to long-term.

The problem is that we have Phase 2 of the Confederation Line not complete until 2025 at least and then Phase 3 which will take us to 2031 or later. This creates a big mess in the south end if we delay another 15 years.

There cannot be another 15 year wait unless we are prepared to spend $100Ms for new roadways that will feed directly into the centre of the city. That is twinning the Airport Parkway feeding double the traffic onto Bronson, building the Alta Vista Parkway and connecting to Nicholas Street and building some more east-west boulevards.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

So the new Trillium line platform at Bayview will be used for about a year and then scrapped?

How many times have we now effectively shut down the Bayview transfer? It is no wonder few downtown commuters go that way.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

So the new Trillium line platform at Bayview will be used for about a year and then scrapped?

I don't see why it'll be "scrapped"... It'll just be extended.

Sure it might get less than a year of use, but if it hadn't been built we'd be complaining about something else instead.

[JohnnyRenton]

I made a comment in another thread about the Trillium Line, but I will repeat here as well. Even though it would not be the most popular decision, I would be in favour of the city going forward with the Confederation Line Phase 2 plans as is, and hitting reset on the Trillium Line and putting it back out for request for proposals and requiring a much more logical, and rational plan to be put forward.

The line has become a transit line created by committee and bureaucrats. I know the city has wanted this line to happen pretty much since day 2 of the pilot project. And they are doing everything they can in order to try to get it done, even though citizen preferences have put it at the bottom of the list, after sending the Confederation Line to Orleans, Barrhaven, and Kanata/Stittsville. But the compromises have made the end result, well, compromised. Maybe there is some plan for phase 2B of the Trillium to fix all its faults. But looking through the confusing mess of information, I just don't see that happening.

One of the best decisions made for transit in Ottawa was when the reset the LRT project in 2010. The long term results will speak for themselves. The same approach needs to be taken with the Trillium Line. Take and year, and sort it out properly. It would be worth it.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRenton

And I know there would be a bit of backlash about delaying the Trillium Line if a new round of proposals was issued for it. But I also don't think it wouldn't be the worst decision either. The Trillium Line has become transit designed by committee and there are a lot of questionable aspects of the plan, as it stands today. Its value has been compromised and it is possible that a second wave of modernization could fix the outstanding issues, but there should be definitive proof that will be the case. A reset on LRT plans in 2010 did wonders for the core of the LRT network, and a reset on the Trillium Line could benefit it greatly in the mid- to long-term.

I agree. I'd rather wait a bit longer if it meant double tracking from the Dow's Lake tunnel to Bayview and an extension into Gatineau. As others have pointed out, current capacity will be outgrown quickly without double tracking.

[Ottawaresident]

Yes ... Running trains on a single track to Riverside South won't work ... We need to double track it ASAP to future proof it.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I agree. I'd rather wait a bit longer if it meant double tracking from the Dow's Lake tunnel to Bayview and an extension into Gatineau. As others have pointed out, current capacity will be outgrown quickly without double tracking.

Unfortunately the cost to double track the existing portion of the line is greater than the cost of the entire Stage 2 South project.

I think best case is that we can patch the system with progressive passing track extensions (especially between South Keys and Greenboro) to bring frequencies down to 10-8 minutes in the future. Those wouldn't necessarily require full or extensive shutdowns to do.

Once full twin track is required, we can afford to dump the money into performing upgrades with no shutdowns. (It's possible to do after all, just too expensive).

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

Yes ... Running trains on a single track to Riverside South won't work ... We need to double track it ASAP to future proof it.

Leitrim to Limebank will be full double track.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I agree. I'd rather wait a bit longer if it meant double tracking from the Dow's Lake tunnel to Bayview and an extension into Gatineau. As others have pointed out, current capacity will be outgrown quickly without double tracking.

I'll play devil's advocate. Where exactly are the hordes of passengers supposed to come from? At the moment, Findely Creek and Riverside South barely generate any transit demand and don't even fill up the every 30 minute 99 bus. At Hunt Club and points north you already have two rapid transit lines (the Southeast transitway and the trillium line). I think we're overstating demand here. I'd love double track all the way, but I don't believe the doom and gloom. I ride the Trillium Line quite frequently, even in rush hour it's nowhere near as packed as the buses running through the core.

[J.OT13]

Riverside South is growing fast. With the addition of rail and more/expanded park-and-rides, more people will choose transit over driving. Some people from Barrahven might try rail as well.

The Carleton to Bayview portion will also generate significantly more ridership over the next few years. The Univeristy will continue to grow, Carling will be surrounded by several new towers, the Booth Street Complex redevelopment and the new Civic Hospital, Gladstone has high density proposals on both sides (Trinity and OCH).

[J.OT13]

I agree that the current plan offers little in terms of fixing the current issues with the line (reliability and frequency), but the plan on the table was supported by Council from its inception. They don't care about fixing the problems, they just want the votes. SNC delivered what was asked, and within budget. It will go through despite its major flaws elected officials don't seem to see.

[Mikeed]

Fixing the Trillium Line to the standards we would like to see it at is not realistic, and the politics of the Otrain network is "East, West & South; All Aboard".

The focus needs to continue to getting value for capital and aggressive rollouts. Will this work as a commuter rail line for Carleton and Riverside South? Yes.

Personally, I still believe the southern suburbs are best served with BRT and local buses routed to transfer stations built in the greenbelt. But this goes against the "all aboard' politics.

The money should go to other pressing projects like the Carling LRT, phase 2 of the Baseline BRT ect.

As we move towards the era of autonomous buses I'm a firm believe BRT is the saviour of suburban sprawl.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

Fixing the Trillium Line to the standards we would like to see it at is not realistic, and the politics of the Otrain network is "East, West & South; All Aboard".

Not it isn't. All we want are trains every 8 minutes, something we were promised not even 5 years ago and it's certainly possible to achieve that without needing to completely double track the entire corridor.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I agree. I'd rather wait a bit longer if it meant double tracking from the Dow's Lake tunnel to Bayview and an extension into Gatineau. As others have pointed out, current capacity will be outgrown quickly without double tracking.

The documents state that, with 12 minute service and double length trains, there will be sufficient capacity until 2048.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRenton

I made a comment in another thread about the Trillium Line, but I will repeat here as well. Even though it would not be the most popular decision, I would be in favour of the city going forward with the Confederation Line Phase 2 plans as is, and hitting reset on the Trillium Line and putting it back out for request for proposals and requiring a much more logical, and rational plan to be put forward.

The line has become a transit line created by committee and bureaucrats. I know the city has wanted this line to happen pretty much since day 2 of the pilot project. And they are doing everything they can in order to try to get it done, even though citizen preferences have put it at the bottom of the list, after sending the Confederation Line to Orleans, Barrhaven, and Kanata/Stittsville. But the compromises have made the end result, well, compromised. Maybe there is some plan for phase 2B of the Trillium to fix all its faults. But looking through the confusing mess of information, I just don't see that happening.

One of the best decisions made for transit in Ottawa was when the reset the LRT project in 2010. The long term results will speak for themselves. The same approach needs to be taken with the Trillium Line. Take and year, and sort it out properly. It would be worth it.

Its not popular because it makes no sense to shelve a section of the project even though its on budget. Name me one company or government that would ever do that you wont find any. The whole project needs to go foward and thankfully the city is doing exactly that. If you really beleived that the original pricetag of 3.4 billion was going to be the final well i cant help with you with that, its your fault for believing a lowball number. Even at 4.7 billion, its still a good deal for stage 2 so everyone just need to calm down a notch and realise it wont get any cheaper just be happy stage 2 will move foward and it will make transit usage easier for more people.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Riverside South is growing fast. With the addition of rail and more/expanded park-and-rides, more people will choose transit over driving. Some people from Barrahven might try rail as well.

The Carleton to Bayview portion will also generate significantly more ridership over the next few years. The Univeristy will continue to grow, Carling will be surrounded by several new towers, the Booth Street Complex redevelopment and the new Civic Hospital, Gladstone has high density proposals on both sides (Trinity and OCH).

Of course i understand all that, I'm just saying we are doubling the current capacity of the trillium line in stage 2, and you can expand it again by extending the platforms a 3rd time, which wouldn't require a shutdown. Capacity isn't the problem that we need to solve.

The better argument is that the airline extension is really pointless without 8 minute service North of south keys, but South of south keys it's not likely ever to require more than 15 minute service throughout the day in either branch