The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[MalcolmTucker]

Perhaps they think they can run reasonable service double tracking to Banff. If a government wants a higher level of service on the Calgary-Cochrane run than a double track can provide, then that incremental cost can be covered elsewhere.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Perhaps they think they can run reasonable service double tracking to Banff. If a government wants a higher level of service on the Calgary-Cochrane run than a double track can provide, then that incremental cost can be covered elsewhere.

Realistically though even double tracking to Banff is going to be more expensive than what they claimed.

In my opinion, if it costs a few billion to build a viable passenger rail train to Banff, it will be well worth it - I doubt anyone in 50 years time would say it was a bad decision. I'm just not sure enough people in power share that opinion, and I don't think pretending building the rail can be built cheaply is realistic or helpful.

[Reecemartin]

With the fact that European and Asian rolling stock is pseudo ok given the FRA rule changes seems like nows a great time to revive some passenger rail service.

[Innsertnamehere]

^ Canada hasn't yet to update its laws to match the US from my understanding. I imagine it won't be long though as Canada will be the only market remaining with such strict rules, which will increase procurement costs as agencies will have to buy specially designed trains.

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

^ Canada hasn't yet to update its laws to match the US from my understanding. I imagine it won't be long though as Canada will be the only market remaining with such strict rules, which will increase procurement costs as agencies will have to buy specially designed trains.

The thing is though I think the change will happen soon after someone proposes using something like a KISS.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Bids have come in for Ottawa's Stage 2 rail expansion. Costs have gone up from the estimated $3.6 Billion to $4.6 Billion. City staff who royally screwed up the original estimates are telling Council that ya, sure we can afford the additional Billion.

Winners of the Confederation project are Kiewit and Vinci. Their bid was apparently hundreds of millions less than the two other consortia competing, which seems suspicious to me. Something must be missing.

The winner of the Trillium project is SNC Lavalin. Nough said.

Here are some images.

Confederation East, past the current terminus of Blair.


Confederation West, past the current terminus of Tunney's Pasture.

Trillium South from the current north terminus of Bayview (transfer station to Confederation) headed south. Bayview is the only existing station shown. The slides skip over the other existing stations and only show new ones, including two infills.


Many more images can be found on the presentation along with further information on the project.

https://www.stage2lrt.ca/wp-content/uplo...it-Project_Tech-Briefing_20190222_EN.pdf

Gotta love the lack of transit oriented development. The car lives another day.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

The Confed expansion looks impressive!


Here's a new graphic about the proposed Calgary metropolitan regional rail system...

Pretty cool to see Calgary get into the Commuter Rail game. If the project is successful, maybe they can extend to Edmonton if VIA never takes advantage of that opportunity.

[milomilo]

It isn't a project yet, that is just a graphic from a commentator off twitter.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Pretty cool to see Calgary get into the Commuter Rail game. If the project is successful, maybe they can extend to Edmonton if VIA never takes advantage of that opportunity.

Unfortunately for passenger rail purposes, the freight traffic between Calgary and Edmonton is quite large. The province for decades has examined the problem, and restoring reliable passenger rail service is less economically viable than going directly to high speed rail, because the level of infrastructure needed is rather high just to guarantee passenger rail is as reliable and as fast as coach buses.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Unfortunately for passenger rail purposes, the freight traffic between Calgary and Edmonton is quite large. The province for decades has examined the problem, and restoring reliable passenger rail service is less economically viable than going directly to high speed rail, because the level of infrastructure needed is rather high just to guarantee passenger rail is as reliable and as fast as coach buses.

It was primarily the infrastructure that lead to the demise of the RDC service between Edmonton and Calgary. There main problem was that there were so many level crossing accidents and neither the Federal government, the Provincial government, cities, CPR or Via Rail were willing to fund any grade separations. In addition to safety, the level crossing incidents resulted in reliability issues. The RDC's were also past their life expectancy without a major rebuild when the service was cancelled.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Unfortunately for passenger rail purposes, the freight traffic between Calgary and Edmonton is quite large. The province for decades has examined the problem, and restoring reliable passenger rail service is less economically viable than going directly to high speed rail, because the level of infrastructure needed is rather high just to guarantee passenger rail is as reliable and as fast as coach buses.

Originally Posted by GoTrans

It was primarily the infrastructure that lead to the demise of the RDC service between Edmonton and Calgary. There main problem was that there were so many level crossing accidents and neither the Federal government, the Provincial government, cities, CPR or Via Rail were willing to fund any grade separations. In addition to safety, the level crossing incidents resulted in reliability issues. The RDC's were also past their life expectancy without a major rebuild when the service was cancelled.

You know, there are 2 places that have a large amount or freight traffic, and have a thriving and expanding commuter rail service. Toronto and Montreal have large yards and large customers for freight. They also have shoehorned in 6 (EXO) and 7 (GO) Lines along with keeping freight moving.

We have the WCE that has never been expanded beyond the single line.

Our freight companies must work with the cities to allow regular scheduled commuter and passenger service to run on all track. That may mean double, triple or more tracks. That may mean expropriation of property along the railways, or it may mean new lines added to bypass sections.

It is good to see Calgary stepping up it's game.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

You know, there are 2 places that have a large amount or freight traffic, and have a thriving and expanding commuter rail service. Toronto and Montreal have large yards and large customers for freight. They also have shoehorned in 6 (EXO) and 7 (GO) Lines along with keeping freight moving.

We have the WCE that has never been expanded beyond the single line.

Our freight companies must work with the cities to allow regular scheduled commuter and passenger service to run on all track. That may mean double, triple or more tracks. That may mean expropriation of property along the railways, or it may mean new lines added to bypass sections.

It is good to see Calgary stepping up it's game.

As you said, there needs to be double and triple tracking. The elevation changes surrounding Calgary don't lend themselves to a economically viable bypass that is superior to just expanding capacity. The rail companies are willing to play ball for sure - they just don't want to have to carry the cost of the extra capacity, without having someone paying for it (and not just paying for 4 or 8 trains a day).

To explain the situation, Calgary does not have a rail bypass, and the track is mostly not double tracked. The CPR mainline goes through the commercial core, at close to its maximum capacity of 37 or 38 freight trains a day. In contrast, the CPR mainline traffic in Vancouver splits at the first WCE station, but effectively before it, with some traffic going out to Delta Port. Looking at the rail atlas briefly, the WCE route is also double tracked.

It is not a matter of talking and securing a useful service on the lines, or a pilot. Compared to other implementations in Canada, the infrastructure is just inadequate, and we know it.

[swimmer_spe]

Meanwhile in Sudbury...

https://www.greatersudbury.ca/live/transit/transit-action-plan/connector-routes/

They seem to be fixing the missing links.

[SFUVancouver]

A regular train service to Canmore and Banff from Calgary would be pretty amazing, and very much in line with the expectations of the European traveling public who are used to being able to take special trains to ski resorts, a la Zermatt and the Chamonix valley.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

A regular train service to Canmore and Banff from Calgary would be pretty amazing, and very much in line with the expectations of the European traveling public who are used to being able to take special trains to ski resorts, a la Zermatt and the Chamonix valley.

So, kinda like a reverse commute?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Meanwhile in Sudbury...

https://www.greatersudbury.ca/live/transit/transit-action-plan/connector-routes/

They seem to be fixing the missing links.

It's a wonder that Greater Sudbury Transit works at all, given the layout of the municipality. Municipal planners must have a field day trying to make anything work.

It's just such a disjointed and jumbly mess due to its history.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by wave46

It's a wonder that Greater Sudbury Transit works at all, given the layout of the municipality. Municipal planners must have a field day trying to make anything work.

It's just such a disjointed and jumbly mess due to its history.

It still is. Slowly, the city has taken all old bylaws and updated them to fit with the entire city. For instance, last year or so, they finally made a law regarding snow mobile riding on roads.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

It was primarily the infrastructure that lead to the demise of the RDC service between Edmonton and Calgary. There main problem was that there were so many level crossing accidents and neither the Federal government, the Provincial government, cities, CPR or Via Rail were willing to fund any grade separations. In addition to safety, the level crossing incidents resulted in reliability issues. The RDC's were also past their life expectancy without a major rebuild when the service was cancelled.

If there were problems with passenger train collisions, surely the same thing applies to freight trains.

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

You know, there are 2 places that have a large amount or freight traffic, and have a thriving and expanding commuter rail service. Toronto and Montreal have large yards and large customers for freight. They also have shoehorned in 6 (EXO) and 7 (GO) Lines along with keeping freight moving.

We have the WCE that has never been expanded beyond the single line.

Our freight companies must work with the cities to allow regular scheduled commuter and passenger service to run on all track. That may mean double, triple or more tracks. That may mean expropriation of property along the railways, or it may mean new lines added to bypass sections.

It is good to see Calgary stepping up it's game.

Anywhere that compelling all day two way service exists, GO owns the tracks. The Lakeshore Line was largely replaced by the York Sub.

All shared trackage operates pretty poor service and GO had to fight tooth and nail for what it has.

[WhipperSnapper]

Yes. Metrolinx's greatest move to date was to acquire these corridors at every opportunity and to the tune of over a billion dollars. There are some that aren't for sale like Milton and Hamilton and the struggles to increase service (forget all day two way) is clear. Milton is written off. Hamilton splits time between two lines.