DENVER | Transportation Thread

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Nothing prevents CDOT from using its money to fund transit projects. There's nothing that says state DOT money has to be used on highways. CDOT does transit projects.

The difference between transit and road funding in this country is that we've set up these DOT institutions in every state for expanding roads, and they get huge amounts of guaranteed money every year, nationwide (yes yes I know it's not enough). There's no such thing for transit. If you want to expand transit, you raise local revenue somehow, usually by asking voters directly.

Colorado is obviously spending a lot on transit via FasTracks, so it is admittedly unfair to say transit construction in Colorado is "shortchanged." Without looking it up, I'd bet more money has gone to transit expansion than highway expansion in the Denver area over the past decade. But FasTracks is a special and temporary situation created by voters to try and fix the exact problem that DenverDave describes: Guaranteed cash for highways, but transit has to figure it out project by project.

I understand that.

With respect to the Feds doesn't 20% have to go to transit since being enacted during the Reagan years? With respect to CDOT, the Colorado legislature didn't want them to be in the local transit business so they passed specific legislation enabling areas to set up transit districts for the purpose of taxation. Bustang is different since it's regional. In addition CDOT is now required to spend a minimum 15% on multimodal projects.

Can't recite all the details but I believe CDOT has helped fund and facilitated transit in many Western Slope areas, like Summit and Pitkin counties. They also heavily subsidized transit in Durango for five years before cutting back to a lower percentage of support. If you were an avid biker, CDOT has funded and/or facilitated some of the best trails all over the state.

But with respect to metro Denver that's the purpose for why RTD was enabled by legislation and created - to handle transit at the local level.

Just curious? Do you know of any states who wanted to move their share of funding from roads to transit and were denied that right?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

Off topic

Maybe it's off topic but I guessed you would enjoy THIS.


Speaking of off topic you gotta love Beta O’Rourke (would be) campaign cap.

Originally Posted by seventwenty

Chariot shuts down: https://denver.streetsblog.org/2019/01/1...4ETG_6bT__iXYL4skzbQMDr4mcHEN1xC-56-7_Kg

Continuing the off topic trend, seventwenty, This one for you.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Just curious? Do you know of any states who wanted to move their share of funding from roads to transit and were denied that right?

Not if I understand exactly what you're asking. There are states that pump much much more of their state DOT money into transit, and there are states that did that in the past and then stopped when a different governor took over and changed the priorities, but AFAIK there's nobody who has tried to do that and had the federal government tell them no.

[Denver Dweller]

https://denverite.com/2019/02/13/buses-a...iLlfgQgt3JA-piIVcVs9jm6hEwuLTa5dv-P87KAA

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Not if I understand exactly what you're asking.

Nvm, I have a different question. When you put together this post, would I be right in assuming you dug those numbers out from RTD's website?

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

https://denverite.com/2019/02/13/buses-a...iLlfgQgt3JA-piIVcVs9jm6hEwuLTa5dv-P87KAA

This is an interesting, fairly typical Sachs piece. One thing that is noteworthy is this part:

RTD will embark on a plan to revamp bus service.

RTD will put out a call for consultants this spring to build a plan that overhauls its entire bus network. Tonilas compared the redesign to what Houston recently did, recently adjusting its routes to be more efficient and serve more people — ridership rose there.

“What our plan will try to achieve is high frequency, reliability and faster speeds,” Tonilas said. “These are the three core things to improve transit, so the fact that Denver has embarked upon this is great, but RTD is the transit agency for the eight-county area. We are looking at it much broader than the Denver study.”

I've previously noted that Houston saw about a 5% uptick in ridership and then flatlined but it's also fair to say that is much better than agencies (like RTD) who have been losing bus riders.

I'm not familiar enough with Houston to know how comparable Denver's network overhaul might be to their's but you have to applaud the effort and intent. When Tonilas emphasizes "frequency, reliability and faster speeds" I assume he's (especially) referring to their desire to invest more in key corridors.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

https://denverite.com/2019/02/13/buses-a...iLlfgQgt3JA-piIVcVs9jm6hEwuLTa5dv-P87KAA

Also interesting (to me) is where Sachs dances around ride-sharing questions. The Streetsblog and transit crowd have been on a mission to demonize people who scratch out a living by offering Uber/Lyft rides. There have been a number of studies that have come out over the last 18 months or so that clearly have agenda-biased conclusions.

I recently read the most recent study out of the Univ of Kentucky. Interestingly I take no issue with the study; what I would take issue with is how others choose to interpret the findings. I've also read Shaller's recent effort Automobility. Shaller is well known and written extensively on the topic. Some of his conclusions can't even pass a smell test. Where he has focused on NYC which is his home turf I wouldn't dispute those points as much as when he generalizes about transit-ride sharing in general. In general, I don't trust that the data they use is that valid; nor do I trust the basis for why they draw certain conclusions.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

When you put together this post, would I be right in assuming you dug those numbers out from RTD's website?

No. They're from APTA ridership reports.

[TakeFive]

I happen to double check my own guess on streetcar costs; this is what I found.

Seattle's City Center Connector will be 1.3 miles and the updated costs are now $285 million for a smooth $450 million per mile. Seattle though... nvm.

But just down the road in Tempe their under construction streetcar will cost $202 million for 3 miles, a more comfortable $67 million per mile. My guestimate of $60 million per mile was reasonable enough.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Seattle's City Center Connector will be 1.3 miles and the updated costs are now $285 million for a smooth $450 million per mile. Seattle though... nvm.

1.3 miles for $285M is $219M/mile. Still a gigantic amount for a streetcar, but IDK how you got to $450M.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

1.3 miles for $285M is $219M/mile. Still a gigantic amount for a streetcar, but IDK how you got to $450M.

I misappropriated the Denominator and the Numerator? It was late?

That was rather unbecoming of me.


Getting around to it

Thinking of Seattle and other places, RTD's needs are starting to crystalize.

Approve $15 billion in new RTD funding. We'll call it Smooth Operator. (And definitely use that song as a backdrop for promotional ads)

$5.5 billion for rail upgrades

$3.5 billion for Urban Rail

• The vaunted Urban Signature Line
• The Colorado Blvd Connector Line

I learned recently how much higher Colorado Blvd traffic counts were compared to South Broadway. Light rail serving the Denver Zoo and Denver Museum of Nature and Science would be cool. Enhanced hubbing or strategic transfer points at I-25/Broadway, Colorado Blvd/I-25 Station, Colorado Blvd/Speer-Leetsdale Line and Colorado Blvd/40th and Colorado A Line Station is smart connectivity.

Seattle teaches that Grade Separation is a winning ticket so more is better than less when it comes to grade separated intersections.

$2 billion for FasTracks updates and upgrades

• The A Line needs to (eventually) be 100% grade separated and double-tracked
• The R Line needs its Express tracks along I-225. Stupid happens; the bigger sin is not to correct one's mistakes.
• The B Line extended to Westminster's new downtown and Broomfield.
• Creating commuter rail during peak morning and afternoon periods between Longmont/Boulder and Broomfield using BNSF tracks
• Light Rail grade separation at Speer Blvd.

Additional options would be other grade separated intersections. Is the SW Extension still a desired thing? N Line extension?
Name your own priority.

[TakeFive]

Love Ya TNC
(you sexy thing)

Between different blogs of accumulated anecdotal stories there's much good that can be said about ride-sharing. Riders who need to go a relatively short or medium distance that would need two bus transfers and an hour or more of their time and inconvenience to ride a bus unsurprisingly prefer ride-sharing. Duh

Riders like SnyderBock and his prettier half using ride-sharing as a first-last mile access to light rail; two or more passengers who pay less per person for ride-sharing than a bus.

Many, many people for personal reasons would rather NOT ride Big Bertha buses. Some would be OK with light rail, some would not.

Most people prefer light rail to buses if it were an option. Cain't put light rail everywhere but wherever it makes sense it should be a preferred option for investment. As light rail and light rail connectivity is expanded (with more grade separation) ridership should rise exponentially and the more people that find leaving their cars at home is easier the better it is for everyone.

RTD should do what it can best do by investing in 'high value' enhanced bus corridors. BRT-style corridors can bridge the gap between base buses and light rail for appeal. Obviously RTD still needs to maintain a healthy base system especially in central Denver. But the fact that bus service will never be able to meet everybody's needs isn't a bad thing it's just a fact.

Let TNC's and RTD each do what they do best and where they can compliment each other that's all the better.

[TakeFive]

How to divide up $15 billion

For starters
10% of revenue growing to 15% needs to be designated for additional RTD operating costs and smaller capital needs. Another 5% to be set aside for reserve and replacement. This portion to be permanent - no sunset provisions compared to capital investments with a 25-year sunset clause.

BTW
The $3.5 billion for Urban Rail includes extending the South Broadway to Speer/Leetsdale corridor along So Parker Rd to Nine Mile Station. Two points: the cost of extending light rail along Parker Rd is nominal compared to the Denver segment. Second, Nine Mile Station is already an impressive hubbing station. The Denver segment has huge TOD opportunities adjacent to the stations at Dahlia and Monaco assuming stations at the SEC of each intersection as well as along Leetsdale in general from Colorado Blvd to So Quebec Street.

Boulder County

• (Modern) Streetcar... ~$750 million
• Bus Rapid Transit along SH119 between Boulder and Longmont... $150 million
• Bus Rapid Transit along the original NW Rail Corridor should the commuter rail not work out... $150 million
• SH7 between Boulder and Brighton (if feasible)... $150 million

Arapahoe/Adams County

• BRT along Havana St from Dick's Sporting Goods Park to So Dayton St... $200 million
• BRT along East Iliff from the Iliff LRT Station to the Parker Rd LRT Station... $75 million
• Enhanced bus service along Chamber's Rd
• Matching funds to create TNC/shuttle service in the DTC including 25% of annual operating costs
• Matching funds for frequent shuttle service along Littleton Blvd from So Broadway to downtown Littleton LRT Station

Jefferson County

• BRT along West Colfax from the Decatur-Federal LRT Station to Kipling St... $100 million
• BRT/Enhanced bus service along Wadsworth from Bear Creek to Olde Town Arvada... $150 million

Douglas County

• SW LRT Extension
• RTD to offer matching funds to create TNC/shuttle network-routes and 25% of the annual operating costs.

Denver County

• BRT/Enhanced bus service along Federal from Hwy 285 to 52nd Ave... $250 million
• Enhanced bus service along West Alameda to Sheridan Blvd; going south on Sheridan Blvd to Morrison Rd and back to Alameda... $75 million.
• Enhanced bus service along MLK Blvd... $50 million
• Frequent shuttle bus service (H/T to ibikecommute) along Downing Street from the 38th/Blake LRT Station to either Yale (Porter Hospital) or East Hampden.
• TBD TNC/shuttle bus routes in and around downtown Denver and nearby neighborhoods.

That's a heck of a Good Start. Hopefully this satisfies Boulder's (city/county) appetitive for make-up fairness. Denver gets a robust upgrade with light rail, BRT along East and West Colfax, Federal Blvd plus various frequent shuttle service routes.

[TakeFive]

CBS4 Denver

DIA Great Hall Project To Take Extra 10 Months Due To Concrete Concerns

The construction project report filed Feb. 14 states, “The current forecasted delay is 209 business days” which equates to about 300 days including weekends and holidays.

Stacey Stegman, DIA Vice President of Communications, responded to the CBS4 report saying the estimated delay comes from construction managers.

Where to from here?

“The projected schedule represents their estimates but does not include the airport’s review and analysis or ways to mitigate. The issue cannot be fully known or realized until April when the testing is completed and the airport is able to review and analyze the results with Great Hall Partners.”

[TakeFive]

They shook and they shook and they shook;
finally all of 2018's rail station ridership reports all dropped in concert.

Done in three reports, I disregard the middle third which is when Auraria is on summer break. Comparing the First Report with the Third there's a few changes of note below Union Station which is in class all to itself.

I-25 & Broadway lost a thousand riders and the Airport gained a thousand so they traded places. Airport is now in 2nd with Broadway in 3rd. The 16th Street Stations also lost a thousand riders for 4th place. 5th place Colfax at Auraria lost 1500 riders.

Bottom line: The A Line is growing with nearly all stations adding ridership while the rest of the system's stations lost ridership.

[bunt_q]

Interesting. Count me among one of those who took the train nearly every day a year ago, and now finds himself driving nearly every day. The train just became too unreliable, which leads to uncomfortable, and it just takes too damn long. Also, little things like cell phone coverage that’s as bad as a New York Subway, and it’s just not a good use of an hour of my day every day.

[Sam Hill]

Interesting indeed. I gave up on RTD over a year ago (which I believe I ranted about here at the time - and more recently at Denver Urbanism). The bus was unreliable, too infrequent, and very uncomfortable due to the riffraff. It took anywhere from 1.25 hours (if all the stars miraculously aligned and I happened to get off work just in time to catch the RC), to 3 hours (if I was particularly unlucky that day), to get from Cap Hill to my workplace in Commerce City, or vice versa. Typically it took 1.5 to 2 hours. (It's about 20-25 minutes via car.) Not owning a car was difficult. I felt somewhat trapped and immobile. Even though I live in the supposed, walkable, urban oasis of Cap Hill, I found some of the simplest things, like getting to a drug store, daunting. Luckily I enjoy long walks, but I don't always have the time for them. It got to the point where I was spending several hundred dollars per month on Uber/Lyft, so I finally broke down and bought a car.

My world has changed. Everything - despite all the seemingly perpetual traffic jams all over the place - feels so much closer and more accessible now. I have mobility now. I have so much freedom now. My life is just so much easier. I can't believe I went as long as I did without a car. I was kidding myself thinking this town was not necessarily a car town. It is a car town and will always be a car town. All the anti-car sentiment among us infill geeks is irrational. An even stronger word like delusional is probably more appropriate. This is Denver.

I don't know who these people are that are fortunate enough to be bona fide yuppies that live in LoHi and bike to some tech job in the CBD or whatever, but I do know that they are a tiny fraction of the population of this metropolis. They will always be a tiny fraction. LoHi will only ever be able to house a tiny fraction. All the urban, hipster, downtown-adjacent neighborhoods combined will only ever be able to house a tiny fraction. The vast majority of us will be stuck with a choice between car and RTD - and obviously, for most of us, car wins.

Like many of us infill geeks who frequent this website, boost our home-towns, and engage in subtle, passive-aggressive city vs city antagonism, I like to think of my hometown as being bigger and more urban than it is. I like to think of it as well on it's way to becoming more like SF, or DC, or some other, more urban, transit-oriented town (not that the majority of people in those places don't also commute via car). But I've been realizing over the past couple years that it's just a fantasy. In order for this town to change into what I would like it be, public transportation would have to become exponentially more convenient and ubiquitous. And when I see the situation RTD is currently in, I just don't see how that's ever going to be possible. Perhaps several decades from now when I'm elderly or dead...

[mhays]

Among people who work in Commerce City, sure.

But things are different for people who both work and live in the urban core, in any city. A large percentage commute by transit. Many walk or bike. It can be very easy to go without a car, even without Uber.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by mhays

Among people who work in Commerce City, sure.

But things are different for people who both work and live in the urban core, in any city. A large percentage commute by transit. Many walk or bike. It can be very easy to go without a car, even without Uber.

Like I said, that's a small percentage of the metropolis. The vast majority of us will continue to drive because RTD sucks - and with ridership falling, will only get suckier. My fantasy of Denver eventually becoming a transit city is dying.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

Interesting indeed. I gave up on RTD over a year ago...

Great post; didn't realize a year had already passed but I recall your rant.

IIRC, on a different topic I think you mentioned Reuters being your go-to site. It's now become mine as well. At the time I loved Bloomberg news but they put up a Big paywall and since I didn't use any of their financial resources (I've always preferred MarketWatch for that) I had to find a new source. I now combine Reuters with a little CNN for my daily dose or Politico if I have extra time.

Glad to hear everything has worked out well for you.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by mhays

Among people who work in Commerce City, sure.

But things are different for people who both work and live in the urban core, in any city. A large percentage commute by transit. Many walk or bike. It can be very easy to go without a car, even without Uber.

You're speaking for yourself ofc and honestly Seattle is very different & unique. Your RapidRide routes have done well which 'generally' mimic Denver's light rail lines. Seattle has achieved an unusually high percentage of 'choice' riders who are satisfied.

Denver seems to reflect Portland's experience in that most gentrifiers are not fond of riding Big Bertha buses. Many bike (or walk) but are only about 7% of the total of commuters into downtown Denver.

We've debated the "missing middle" in housing mix; with respect to transit the missing middle is shuttle style buses that would carry ~35 passengers and be more efficient and appealing to choice riders - in Denver. Uber/Lyft have found their niche but transit's middle is missing.