O-Train Line 1/3 [ Stage 2 | East Extension | Blair to Trim] | U/C

[J.OT13]

Why are they building a second pedestrian bridge at Place d'Orleans?


https://twitter.com/meganshawCTV/status/1099031763450507265

[kevinbottawa]

I was wondering the same thing. It makes the whole area look way too busy.

[sseguin]

I have shared the news release from the Stage2LRT technical briefing today on O-Train Fans here:
https://www.otrainfans.ca/blogs/city-hol...stage-2-lrt-and-the-preferred-proponents

[rocketphish]

LRT Stage 2 now $1.2B more than projected; SNC-Lavalin, American-French consortium recommended as builders

Taylor Blewett, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: February 22, 2019



Embattled construction group SNC-Lavalin has been selected as one of the recommended proponents to build Stage 2 of the city’s light-rail transit system — a project which has ballooned in projected cost by $1.2 billion — Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson announced Friday.

The announcement comes while SNC is at the centre of controversy around the PMO’s alleged political pressure on then-Attorney General Jody Wilson-Raybould in her handling of the criminal prosecution of the Quebec company.

Watson announced that after a three-year procurement process, the city has chosen TransitNEXT (made up of Montreal-based SNC-Lavalin) to work on the next $1.6-billion phase of the north-south Trillium Line, which will see it extended to Riverside South.

East West Connectors (made up of American construction company Kiewit and French builder and transit operator Vinci) has been selected to handle the next phase of the east-west Confederation Line, which will bring it out to Orléans on one end and Algonquin College in the other.

In contrast to the $3.4-billion Stage 2 LRT construction cost estimated in 2017, the city now says the project will cost $4.6 billion due to changes in scope and market pressures that have driven up the cost.

The first phase of the Confederation Line is slated for handover to the city March 31, but the mayor and transit head John Manconi have voiced doubts that the builder Rideau Transit Group can achieve that deadline.

Construction on LRT Stage 2 — which will bump the number of stations from 19 to 41 — is expected to begin in 2019.

The city said the completion of Stage 2 will bring 77 per cent of residents within five kilometres of light rail.

City staff said the province has confirmed it’s still on board for a $1-billion contribution to LRT Phase 2, and an announcement and formal agreement will be arranged in the near future.

Chris Swail, the city’s director for the Stage 2 project, said the city needs council approval and executive agreements in place with the provincial and federal governments by the end of March, to ensure they can lock in with the selected proponents at the prices they’ve put on the table.

“We have to move quickly, unfortunately,” Swail said.

Stage 2 of the Confederation Line is expected to be delayed — initially, the city cited a completion date of 2023, but said Friday it would be 2025.

Coun. Diane Deans suggested the city needs to check with Ottawa residents to determine if they’re still on board with LRT Stage 2, given the project changes announced Friday.

Deans also questioned why the city would “reward” SNC-Lavalin with a contract for Stage 2 given their involvement in the delay-plagued first phase of the Confederation Line.

Swail answered that “running a procurement process is not about rewarding anyone … whoever has the strongest bid in the process evaluation is the winner.”

Deans also alluded to the company’s ongoing legal issues, asking: “Given their more precarious position now, and the potential for loss of income in the future … could that create a jeopardy for us and delay the project if they get in more trouble?”

The city will also be applying some hard-earned Stage 1 lessons to Stage 2, including stronger penalties if “projection completion notifications” are missed; a better idea of cost management; and “expanded mobility matters” to include pedestrians and cyclists.

The report on Stage 2 will come before committee on Wednesday. Council will vote on it March 6.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...d-as-recommended-builder-for-lrt-stage-2

[Hybrid247]

Not the best quality images... I couldn't find the actual image files, so I just trimmed them from one of the documents posted here.

Montreal Road


Jeanne d'Arc


Orleans Boulevard


Place d'Orleans


Trim

[White Pine]

https://twitter.com/meganshawCTV/status/1099031983064264704

Did they mix up Baseline and Montreal Rd? I thought baseline was underground and Montreal Rd was not...

Edit: Looks like there are a lot of weird obstacles around that station so maybe that explains the outdoor view with pedestrian walkways.

[JohnnyRenton]

One thing to say about Ottawa, they are not messing around. That is a pretty ambitious plan with the addition all of those stops in Barrhaven and Kanata. If that is all built within the next 10 years that will be a huge change to transportation in Ottawa. I would even argue that this is one of the biggest, and most important engineering and transportation projects in Canada right now. The start of phase 2 construction can't come soon enough (I could start critiquing some of what was announced and shown, but its more fun to let it be exciting for a while).

[Truenorth00]

$4.6 billion?

Not happening in current form. Confederation East is getting axed or severely scaled back (say to just Montreal Rd.).

[lrt's friend]

I can't imagine spending money to make Montreal Road a terminal station.

[corynv]

If they do the east extension, it'll go all the way to Place d'Orleans, only place that makes sense to be a terminus to the line besides Trim. Especially since they don't need to do anything for a bus loop at the forced transfer for anyone wanting to go past there.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Why are they building a second pedestrian bridge at Place d'Orleans?

https://twitter.com/meganshawCTV/status/1099031763450507265

This has been discussed before. One is inside the fare paid zone to make bus/train transfers easier and one is outside for connectivity between the mall and Park & Ride.

[Dundas]

The Place Dorleans station is better than I was imaginating. It's true that some station designs are underwhelming but that's usually the case once you go further out of the core into the suburbs the stations become more plain.

[Acajack]

Montreal Rd. is going to be one desolate station. Though I guess people from Blackburn Hamlet and the far eastern part of Beacon Hill will transfer to and from buses there. Nothing or no one is within walking distance of there.

I generally hate highway median stations but I guess Jeanne d'Arc will work as there are residences and amenities within walking distance.

There is no walkway shown from Trim to the Cité collégiale trades campus. I assume this is just an oversight as these are early stage sketches.

[orleans_man]

Originally Posted by Acajack

.
There is no walkway shown from Trim to the Cité collégiale trades campus. I assume this is just an oversight as these are early stage sketches.

I don't believe so. I noticed in one of the technical drawings ( Document 7. Traffic_Mobility and Detours.docx) that there is no access to the North side of the 174 (maybe in the future, but not part of this design).

It appears that they are now developing a new signalized intersection as opposed to a highway interchange (I believe that was in the earlier proposals). Maybe cost savings, or traffic volumes don't warrant one at this point?

https://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=7718&doctype=AGENDA

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

This has been discussed before. One is inside the fare paid zone to make bus/train transfers easier and one is outside for connectivity between the mall and Park & Ride.

Makes sense.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

$4.6 billion?

Not happening in current form. Confederation East is getting axed or severely scaled back (say to just Montreal Rd.).

Montreal Road as would make absolutely no sense as a terminus; no space for a bus loop or park and ride and just about no walk-up traffic.

Confederation East is the shortest and cheapest of the extensions. It also serves the suburb with the highest ridership. A suburb that has no employment and therefore relies entirely on areas west. On the East expansion, we could eliminate Orleans Boulevard and maybe Trim if need be.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Confederation East is the shortest and cheapest of the extensions. It also serves the suburb with the highest ridership. A suburb that has no employment and therefore relies entirely on areas west. On the East expansion, we could eliminate Orleans Boulevard and maybe Trim if need be.

It is also the least politically important.

[Truenorth00]

People arguing that Montreal Rd can’t be the terminus should go to Toronto and see SRT. All the buses go to Scarborough Town Centre. McCowan, however, is the terminus station that’s there essentially as a glorified drop off station. That’s exactly what could happen with Blair and Montreal. Alternatively, they could also build exactly nothing in the East. And I can see that happening too given how much costs have escalated.

They don’t even have a shovel in the ground yet and we already have a third higher costs. Cuts are coming. And the only way to make a large cut in Stage 2 is to cut Confederation East. The West is needed to get to the other edge of the Greenbelt. Trillium South is maybe $600-700 million. Not enough to keep it in the envelope. With Blair already a large and effective bus depot, cuts in the east, are the most feasible.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

People arguing that Montreal Rd can’t be the terminus should go to Toronto and see SRT. All the buses go to Scarborough Town Centre. McCowan, however, is the terminus station that’s there essentially as a glorified drop off station. That’s exactly what could happen with Blair and Montreal. Alternatively, they could also build exactly nothing in the East. And I can see that happening too given how much costs have escalated.

They don’t even have a shovel in the ground yet and we already have a third higher costs. Cuts are coming. And the only way to make a large cut in Stage 2 is to cut Confederation East. The West is needed to get to the other edge of the Greenbelt. Trillium South is maybe $600-700 million. Not enough to keep it in the envelope. With Blair already a large and effective bus depot, cuts in the east, are the most feasible.

Better to eliminate useless stations like Orleans Boulevard and Iris that only serve low-density residential, Leitrim and Bowesville that serve farm fields. If an entire stretch is eliminated, it should be Trillium which brings little improvement for more or less a billion dollars.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

People arguing that Montreal Rd can’t be the terminus should go to Toronto and see SRT. All the buses go to Scarborough Town Centre. McCowan, however, is the terminus station that’s there essentially as a glorified drop off station. That’s exactly what could happen with Blair and Montreal. Alternatively, they could also build exactly nothing in the East. And I can see that happening too given how much costs have escalated.

They don’t even have a shovel in the ground yet and we already have a third higher costs. Cuts are coming. And the only way to make a large cut in Stage 2 is to cut Confederation East. The West is needed to get to the other edge of the Greenbelt. Trillium South is maybe $600-700 million. Not enough to keep it in the envelope. With Blair already a large and effective bus depot, cuts in the east, are the most feasible.

I agree they may have to re-evaluate the scope of the project, but I don’t see how Montreal Road is a better terminus than Blair. At least Blair is a relatively built up area where you can run an errand while you transfer.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Montreal Road as would make absolutely no sense as a terminus; no space for a bus loop or park and ride and just about no walk-up traffic.

There’s no rule that says a terminus station has to have all those. Sometimes terminus stations are effectively just the last local station built. Not necessarily hubs. See the example I gave of Scarborough Centre and McCowan in Toronto.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Confederation East is the shortest and cheapest of the extensions.

Where are you getting this from? I think Trillium South is substantially cheaper than Confederation East. Length is irrelevant. Cost is much more relevant.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It also serves the suburb with the highest ridership. A suburb that has no employment and therefore relies entirely on areas west. On the East expansion, we could eliminate Orleans Boulevard and maybe Trim if need be.

Cuts at the margins won’t do squat to keep Stage 2 close to budget. That’s the problem. Where is the city going to get an extra billion from? Not to mention covering cost overruns. Let’s be honest. If it’s $4.6B now, it’ll be over $5 billion by completion. I am curious to see how the city will pay for this. Hopefully, the province and feds can pony up another $800 million and keep the cost share relatively even for Ottawa. But if that doesn’t happen, this is a huge burden on the city.

I am not cheering on cuts here. I am just telling people to brace for them. When costs go up by a third before they even have a shovel in the ground, a re-evaluations of budgets, scope and risk are absolutely normal.