Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Orlando]

Old&New,
I think these are great ideas. Though, if Pantages was restored and a new theater was also built, wouldn't that just take away from the Capitol Theater? I wish there was that much demand. The suburbs keep creating their own theaters.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Old&New,
I think these are great ideas. Though, if Pantages was restored and a new theater was also built, wouldn't that just take away from the Capitol Theater? I wish there was that much demand. The suburbs keep creating their own theaters.

I see no evidence the there is demand for the Pantages. It is disappointing, but razing it seems to be the least crappy option. If not it will likely sit as an eyesore for decades to come.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Old&New,
I think these are great ideas. Though, if Pantages was restored and a new theater was also built, wouldn't that just take away from the Capitol Theater? I wish there was that much demand. The suburbs keep creating their own theaters.

I'm assuming Old & New has a good handle on local demand, and I'm hoping he will respond to that question with some current information. I do know as I'm sure most of you also know that the new Hale and Eccles are experiencing success well beyond their most ideal projections. Also, The Capitol is having a very bright ongoing success now that it has been freed up due to Eccle's arrival, enabling it to expand it's offerings and schedules. I understand it will even be shutting down in March for additional renovation due to it's hectic demand.

My only question regarding demand as far as the major live theaters go is how The Pioneer is doing currently. I know it has a very robust schedule lined up for 2019, just not perfectly sure about the current state of ticket sales.

The Wasatch Front is considered per capita one of the more active and well attended live theater scenes in the nation.

The initial up front costs of the restoration of The Pantages has never been considered an in and out money maker. It has always been and will always be accomplished only if a major donor along with wide public support enters the equation. I think public support could be drummed up, as long as an individual or group of moneyed individuals donate heavily to the cause. The problem isn't whether there will be seating demand. The several mixed-use proposals of the overall development would more than sustain the ongoing theater once it's restored. The problem is who is willing to financially front the dream of its expensive restoration. It would have to be purely for the noble cause of giving back to the community, without any thought of profit return. Whatever the surrounding development, The Pantages must at least carry a moniker such as J Willard Marriott. I myself would like to see the Millionaire/Billionaire money donated without having to have their name in lights. I would prefer Robert Redford's name in front of Pantages, along with an associated downtown school of film, but that's just my 'in a perfect world' talking.

[scottharding]

Pioneer Theatre company is doing just fine. They are a LORT (League of Regional Theatres) B-level theatre company and have a strong subscriber list and donor group.
It's not exactly accurate to think of them in direct competition to the likes of the Eccles or Kingsbury, since those spaces are simply booked for tours, while PTC is a self-producing theatre company. PTC brings titles fresh off of Broadway and revives classical hits while the tours are a very different contract. So, for instance, PTC will never do Phantom of the Opera, as the regional rights are not available for that show. If audiences want to see Phantom, they'll have to see the tour. It's the only option. Meanwhile, there will be no national tour of Sweat, the Pulitzer and Tony award for best new play.
The only way Utah audiences will see that is if a regional theatre obtains the rights, so that's Pioneer.

I don't think there is enough audience in Salt Lake to support another major touring space. If the Pantages were to be restored, it would need to be something different, and a 1000 seat house isn't viable. I know they were thinking about dividing the large proscenium space in there into multiple, smaller spaces when they were thinking of reviving it, and that's what would have to happen. I do know that smaller performance spaces like the Rose Wagner are in constant demand downtown, and I think Salt Lake could support more of that, although Wasatch Theatre Company just converted a space in the Gateway into a new blackbox, so that may be absorbing much of that demand, especially for little arts organizations with less money to spend.

[UV4EVER]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

No it isn't. Density data by Census tract is publicly available(the most populous along the Wasatch Front are in SLC proper).

As far as most often compared that also isn't true. Depending on the industry/application a number of different metrics are used. Media markets, Metropolitan amd combined statistical areas, census tracts, amd sometimes even local government jurisdictions(cities). You picked a poor category to derive the data from for the question you were trying to answer(which cities on the WF have higher densities) and failed to correct for clear anomalies(National Forest within a cities border for one). That mistake is why you came up with a false conclusion.

In the future remember that if you come to a counter intuitive answer it is more likely than not that you made a mistake. Not always but most often. Recheck the data you are pulling from and reexamine your process.

This is off topic so I'm not going to respond after this reply. First off, I didn't ask the question. I think you might be mixing up my comments regarding GrandTeton's question. Also, I agree with you that Salt Lake City is more dense than the overall city numbers imply; that was my entire point. I am also very familiar with the many ways to track population, density, etc. I agree with you had I picked overall city density to derive the conclusion from, that would have been a poor choice. I didn't. But I realize that some people do, just like GrandTeton did, which is unfortunate.

[airhero]

https://ballotpedia.org/Analysis_of_...largest_cities

I stumbled across this breakdown of citywide budgets of the 100 largest cities in the United States. Salt Lake City isn't on this list because it's not one of the 100 most populated cities in the US. Yet...if SLC was added to this list it would rank as the 32nd largest city budget (1.28 billion dollars) in the US, despite being 116th in population. That means Salt Lake's budget is higher than the cities of Las Vegas (1.08B) and Minneapolis (1.2B) and comparable to those of Cleveland (1.47B) and Denver (1.49B). I look at some of the impressive public projects in those cities and wonder--why does Salt Lake not measure up in that respect with the kind of budget it has?

Another statistic--spending per capita would place it at 6th behind only Washington DC, San Francisco, New York, Seattle, and Long Beach.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by delts145

I'm assuming Old & New has a good handle on local demand, and I'm hoping he will respond to that question with some current information. I do know as I'm sure most of you also know that the new Hale and Eccles are experiencing success well beyond their most ideal projections. Also, The Capitol is having a very bright ongoing success now that it has been freed up due to Eccle's arrival, enabling it to expand it's offerings and schedules. I understand it will even be shutting down in March for additional renovation due to it's hectic demand.

My only question regarding demand as far as the major live theaters go is how The Pioneer is doing currently. I know it has a very robust schedule lined up for 2019, just not perfectly sure about the current state of ticket sales.

The Wasatch Front is considered per capita one of the more active and well attended live theater scenes in the nation.

The initial up front costs of the restoration of The Pantages has never been considered an in and out money maker. It has always been and will always be accomplished only if a major donor along with wide public support enters the equation. I think public support could be drummed up, as long as an individual or group of moneyed individuals donate heavily to the cause. The problem isn't whether there will be seating demand. The several mixed-use proposals of the overall development would more than sustain the ongoing theater once it's restored. The problem is who is willing to financially front the dream of its expensive restoration. It would have to be purely for the noble cause of giving back to the community, without any thought of profit return. Whatever the surrounding development, The Pantages must at least carry a moniker such as J Willard Marriott. I myself would like to see the Millionaire/Billionaire money donated without having to have their name in lights. I would prefer Robert Redford's name in front of Pantages, along with an associated downtown school of film, but that's just my 'in a perfect world' talking.

The Sundance theatre

Right now sundance converts a basketball court into a temporary movie theater. It would be no problem to do the same to a restored Pantages. The film Festival has grown a ton over the last decade and there are questions if Park City can continue to manage hosting it. At some point SLC will need to take a larger role. The city should talk to Sundance officials to gauge their interest.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by delts145

The Wasatch Front is considered per capita one of the more active and well attended live theater scenes in the nation.

The initial up front costs of the restoration of The Pantages has never been considered an in and out money maker. It has always been and will always be accomplished only if a major donor along with wide public support enters the equation. I think public support could be drummed up, as long as an individual or group of moneyed individuals donate heavily to the cause. The problem isn't whether there will be seating demand. The several mixed-use proposals of the overall development would more than sustain the ongoing theater once it's restored. The problem is who is willing to financially front the dream of its expensive restoration. It would have to be purely for the noble cause of giving back to the community, without any thought of profit return. Whatever the surrounding development, The Pantages must at least carry a moniker such as J Willard Marriott. I myself would like to see the Millionaire/Billionaire money donated without having to have their name in lights. I would prefer Robert Redford's name in front of Pantages, along with an associated downtown school of film, but that's just my 'in a perfect world' talking.

I love these ideas Delts! You never know, SLFS has strong ties to Sundance and SLC continues to grow as a Sundance venue. I personally think this market needs a classy concert venue rather than another stage theater venue. Our live scene is vibrant but dominated by 300ppl and smaller spaces and monstrous warehouses that can cram 3000ppl. We need something in between that can be booked by jazz, blues and country artists outside of the Livenation (Depot) lineup . Something along the lines of the Peppermill in Wendover (which is great BTW, especially their boozy slushy machine array) but with a classy edge. Kind of our own little Fillmore. Our downtown needs that.

... Oh how I miss the Zephyr and the Dead Goat and DV8 (I'm old). Snifff...

[delts145]

Originally Posted by scottharding

Pioneer Theatre company is doing just fine. They are a LORT (League of Regional Theatres) B-level theatre company and have a strong subscriber list and donor group.
It's not exactly accurate to think of them in direct competition to the likes of the Eccles or Kingsbury, since those spaces are simply booked for tours, while PTC is a self-producing theatre company. PTC brings titles fresh off of Broadway and revives classical hits while the tours are a very different contract. So, for instance, PTC will never do Phantom of the Opera, as the regional rights are not available for that show. If audiences want to see Phantom, they'll have to see the tour. It's the only option. Meanwhile, there will be no national tour of Sweat, the Pulitzer and Tony award for best new play.
The only way Utah audiences will see that is if a regional theatre obtains the rights, so that's Pioneer.

I don't think there is enough audience in Salt Lake to support another major touring space. If the Pantages were to be restored, it would need to be something different, and a 1000 seat house isn't viable. I know they were thinking about dividing the large proscenium space in there into multiple, smaller spaces when they were thinking of reviving it, and that's what would have to happen. I do know that smaller performance spaces like the Rose Wagner are in constant demand downtown, and I think Salt Lake could support more of that, although Wasatch Theatre Company just converted a space in the Gateway into a new blackbox, so that may be absorbing much of that demand, especially for little arts organizations with less money to spend.

Good to hear Scott that Pioneer is doing well. I was very impressed with their 2018 and upcoming 2019 schedule, and also the reviews on the theater are very high.

If you get a minute give us an update on the movie industries progression in Utah. It would seem like the Park City Studios have been very successful, and could possibly use an expansion?

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Marvland

...

... Oh how I miss the Zephyr and the Dead Goat and DV8 (I'm old). Snifff...

I also miss the Zephyr and especially DV8. I think Vasilios Priskos committed arson and burned DV8 down.

[DCRes]

Originally Posted by delts145

Good to hear Scott that Pioneer is doing well. I was very impressed with their 2018 and upcoming 2019 schedule, and also the reviews on the theater are very high.

If you get a minute give us an update on the movie industries progression in Utah. It would seem like the Park City Studios have been very successful, and could possibly use an expansion?

My wife and I have had season tickets to Pioneer Theatre for 10 years. I have no hard numbers to back this up, but in the past couple years it has seemed like there are more empty seats than there used to be

[nushiof]

There appears to be surveying equipment and surveying type people mulling about the Tower 8 property this lovely morning.

[stayinginformed]

There was also drilling happening at the Convention Center Hotel site on West Temple and 200 South on Monday.

[EPdesign]

Things are really moving on phase one of block 67. Not construction stuff but things that will need to be established post and prior to construction.

[Orlando]

Those last 3 posts were great! It's like Bamm! Bamm! Bamm! Progress on Tower 8...Bamm! Progress on the convention hotel...Bamm! Progress on Block 67...Bamm!

But, what about block 67 exactly?

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Those last 3 posts were great! It's like Bamm! Bamm! Bamm! Progress on Tower 8...Bamm! Progress on the convention hotel...Bamm! Progress on Block 67...Bamm!

But, what about block 67 exactly?

Post construction operations

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

Post construction operations

What? Do you mean "pre" construction operations/site prep?

[Utah_Dave]

If everything holds together on these projects, the next few years could be the busiest for high rise and large developments for Salt Lake City in History. Perhaps only rivaled by the City Creek Developement. Kinda hard to believe things are shaping up nicely for us.

[scottharding]

Originally Posted by delts145

Good to hear Scott that Pioneer is doing well. I was very impressed with their 2018 and upcoming 2019 schedule, and also the reviews on the theater are very high.

If you get a minute give us an update on the movie industries progression in Utah. It would seem like the Park City Studios have been very successful, and could possibly use an expansion?

The film industry has had a very good year, and a very robust couple of years. Utah's problem in the past decade or so has always been getting a series to set up shop and stay.
Well, this year alone, we had the second season of Taylor Sheriden's Yellowstone (which was a huge success for Paramount), a new series with BYUTV/Vineyard called Dwight in Shining Armor, Disney's Andi Mack, parts of HBO's West World, and the announcement that Disney has greenlit a High School Musical series to shoot here in Utah. And the feature films were big this year in Utah too, most notably Heredity. Lots of production. I worked in the script department for both Yellowstone and Dwight in Shining Armor, as well as a David Lynch produced Feature film.

The problem now- and it's suddenly a big problem- is the tax incentives are stretched way too thin. The number was selected when they were trying to lure one big series to Utah. Now they have so many, and they're competing against each other. In fact, Dwight in Shining Armor- which again, is a BYU TV project- is looking to move to Canada for their next season. Taylor Sheridan himself joined the Motion Picture Association of Utah to lobby the legislature for an incentive increase. In addition to Yellowstone, he wants to shoot another feature here (following Wind River, which he shot here).

Increasing the tax incentives SHOULD be an easy sell, since the industry can demonstrate a guaranteed return on every single dollar invested. But this is the Utah leg we're talking about.
One look at what has happened to the film industry in Georgia should persuade any state with the infrastructure to say YES to massive increases in the film industry money. The money it brings to a state is incredible.

And yes, the Park City film studios have turned out to be very successful. Mostly thanks to Yellowstone. I wouldn't be surprised to see some expansion in the future.

[scottharding]

Originally Posted by DCRes

My wife and I have had season tickets to Pioneer Theatre for 10 years. I have no hard numbers to back this up, but in the past couple years it has seemed like there are more empty seats than there used to be

Interesting. I worked there quite a bit in the earlier part of the decade.
How much of that is based on the selection of shows, I wonder? I know they changed Artistic Directors within the last few years. The one who had been there before, Charles Morey, built Pioneer into the professional company it is today. His retirement might have caused a bit of shock loss.

Delts is right, this season is quite a selection. Some of the titles I was quite surprised to see that they had got them. I wonder if they're boosting sales at all.

I was there when Pioneer became the first regional theatre in the nation to obtain the regional rights to Les Mis, and that show sold out for four consecutive months. It was crazy.