Highways in Canada

[FrAnKs]

En tout cas j'ai trouvé ce PDF, je sais pas si tu l'avais déjà vu.
Le tronçon jusqu'à la Route 293 à Trois-Pistoles semble être le plus avancé.

https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/fr/pro...ocuments/carte-autoroute20-dates-ouv.pdf

[Tone]

^Non je ne l'avais jamais vu et j'adore, merci de partager!

Effectivement, il y a d'autres tronçons prioritaires au Québec, c'est pour ça que je ne déchire pas ma chemise. De toutes façons, à moins d'un revirement de situation improbable, il avait été annoncé qu'il n'y aurait pas d'autre investissements sur la 20 avant que la 85 soit complétée, ce qui est dommage pour nous mais compréhensible.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by Tone

^Non je ne l'avais jamais vu et j'adore, merci de partager!

Effectivement, il y a d'autres tronçons prioritaires au Québec, c'est pour ça que je ne déchire pas ma chemise. De toutes façons, à moins d'un miracle il avait été annoncé qu'il n'y aurait pas d'autre investissements sur la 20 avant que la 85 soit complétée, ce qui est dommage pour nous mais compréhensible.

De rien ! ... ça me fait penser à une chose... d'ici à ce que l'A85 soit complétée il va s'écouler plusieurs années, et d'ici là peut-être que le MTQ va finalement prioriser un doublement de l'A20 au sud de Rimouski avant terminer le prolongement entre Trois-Pistoles et Le Bic. Selon les derniers chiffres de 2016 que j'ai vu, la plupart des tronçons qui contournent Rimouski étaient près et même dépassaient les 10 000 véhicules par jour.

[Metro-One]

The cancellation of the George Massey Bridge project & Highway 99 upgrades (including a true rapid bus system with median bus lanes, median bus stations and bus only direct ramps to Bridgeport Skytrain Station) is the greatest mistake the BC NDP have made since coming to power, and it angers me every time I think about it. The recommendation study they had done had some pretty terrible ideas in it, such as retaining the tunnels and further dividing the highway into a mess with a new 4 lane bridge beside the tunnels (talk about a Frankenstein mess of alignments), keeping the bus shoulder “lanes” (honestly they are not shoulder lanes, they are the literal shoulders being used as bus lanes currently, and they cut across every on and off ramp), and even retaining most of the current overpassed (in other words, minimal to no interchange improvements)

I just wish those forum members making all the noise now were doing the same around election season, the writing was on the wall for this to happen.

The Pattullo is also a joke opening at 4 lanes (the layout of access points is clearly in need of 5 from the get go, 6 would be best. At the very least this bridge will be built 6 lanes capable.

The only current major highway upgrades in metro Vancouver are the #1 in North Vancouver near the Iron Workers’ Memorial Bridge, the SFPR Interchange upgrade at Sunbury, and the new 216th Interchange project in Langley. All of these projects were in motion before the NDP came into power and the SFPR Interchange project is largely being funded by the federal government and port authority.

I honesty can’t see the NDP instigating any of their own highway projects outside of the Pattullo Bridge (which was also in motion for years and was only really picked up by the NDP to free up Translink to focus on transit projects, and they also reduced the scale of the project on the Surrey side by removing an Interchange).

The only project I can see them possibly allowing to move forward is the 6 lanning to Abbotsford... after some more delay of course. Simply because most of the major interchanges along that portion have been rebuilt over the last 15 years and are 6 lane ready.

Outside of that maybe only a random Interchange upgrade here or there if it is spearheaded by the feds and port.

And yes, Corndogger, I really do wish that the feds would swoop in and force a major highway project on the region (and pay for it too). I wish they did that with the GMB project...

I would add the GMB cancellation as one of the top 3 highway blunders in BC.

1. Cancelling the GMB / highway 99 upgrade / rapid bus project
2. Cancelling the final western 3rd of the Okanagan Connector Freeway (this was done because Merrit cried and at the time the TM was from Merrit, now the freeway abruptly ends and diverts into Merrit, wasting everyone’s time and fuel. And they didn’t even upgrade that detour properly into a freeway.
3. Downgrading over half of the island highway interchanges into at grade intersections due to cost overruns. The most bizarre being where the Island Highway meets the Nanaimo Parkway on the north end of the city. From above what at first looks like a standard flyover is actually an exit ramp that crosses the highway at grade. It is even hard to explain it is so bizarre.

Sometimes I feel a little anal retentive but I wish someone would campaign just on properly completing all these past fucked over projects.

In the end though, while metro Vancouver and the province shoulder much of the blame, it is not entirely their fault, building highways in many areas of BC is extremely expensive, and without a true federal highway program even with proactive local and provincial governments BC would still likely be behind other provinces on a per capita base for highway infrastructure. The lack of federal involvement on our freeways / highways (and rail) has always bothered me to no end. At the very least the #1 through BC (and Canada) should be fully funded by the feds.

As bad as things are though, the last 10 to 15 years under the Liberals saw the largest improvements to our highways in BC that I have ever witnessed. It just shows how much work was needed to be done (and still remains to be done).

[ssiguy]

The problem with BC started way before the NDP got into power, they are simply making it worse. The Liberals had no problem building bridges but that's because they weren't going to pay for them as they demanded tolls on everything. Remember it was the NDP that took the ridiculously high tolls off the Port Mann and Golden Ears. The reason the NDP don't want the GMT is that they have set the precedent and it too would have to be toll-free unlike the Liberal plan which probably would have been about a $4 toll each way.

As for your wish list, except for the possibility of 6 lanes to Abbotsford {which is still too thin}, none of those projects will ever see the light of day. BC not only doesn't build freeways but even basic road expansion or widening is a rarity. This is made much worse by the fact that the cities are not forced by the province to set aside potential future road project right of ways. The cities have been allowed to expand helter skelter and now any new road anywhere in Metro Vancouver is a near impossibility.

Due to the present inepitudes and lack of vision for the future there will be nothing new built for decades and possibly never. BC is the poster child of how not to build a highway system.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The problem with BC started way before the NDP got into power, they are simply making it worse. The Liberals had no problem building bridges but that's because they weren't going to pay for them as they demanded tolls on everything. Remember it was the NDP that took the ridiculously high tolls off the Port Mann and Golden Ears. The reason the NDP don't want the GMT is that they have set the precedent and it too would have to be toll-free unlike the Liberal plan which probably would have been about a $4 toll.

As for your wish list, except for the possibility of 6 lanes to Abbotsford {which is still too thin}, none of those projects will ever see the light of day. BC not only doesn't build freeways but even basii road expansion or widening is a rarity. This is made much worse by the fact that the cities are not forced by the province to set aside potential future road project right of ways. The cities have been allowed to expand helter skelter and now any new road anywhere in Metro Vancouver is a near impossibility.

Due to the present inepitudes and lack of vision for the future there will be nothing new built for decades and possibly never. BC is the poster child of how not to build a highway system.

Why didn't the provincial government buy up land or set it aside decades ago to build major transportation projects? In AB the provincial government decades ago set aside land surround Edmonton and Calgary to build major bypass freeways, and for major utility corridors. They're called TUCs (Transportation Utility Corridors) and have proven to be very useful. Do other provinces not do this? Even the cities themselves in AB either try to set aside land or buy it up so they can build major transportation projects when needed.

I'm still surprised that labor unions and road contractors in B.C. put up with the shit the current government is pulling. A great road network is needed to have a solid economy. B.C. is lucking out right now but that could easily change tomorrow.

[ssiguy]

The even more surprising thing is that Vancouver is a port city and yet the metro area is littered with at grade crossings even on busy corridors like HWY#10. BC simply doesn't build highways of any kind, both the NDP and Liberals.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The even more surprising thing is that Vancouver is a port city and yet the metro area is littered with at grade crossings even on busy corridors like HWY#10. BC simply doesn't build highways of any kind, both the NDP and Liberals.

If the Liberals had been reelected I wonder if they would have proceeded with what they planned to build? Real shame that the NDP cancelled nearly everything. The lack of proper road infrastructure is going to bite B.C. in the butt sooner than they think.

[Innsertnamehere]

The 407 is built in a utility corridor that was designate do once hen 60's.

The liberals in Ontario were starting to go more anti highway towards the end of their term - their 15 years were generally pretty nice for highways, but they cancelled the GTA west highway (thankfully now restarted) towards the end of their term.

I'm hoping that the PCs up highway spending. The spending rate was already pretty high - but Ontarios growth rates are so high that MTO is fighting a constant uphill battle against traffic. I can identify an easy $10 billion in additional highway projects that are unfounded that are needed yesterday.

[Dengler Avenue]

For GTHA, though, I would still prioritize RER over highway projects because the highways really need some serious unclogging. If I were to be in charge, I’d probably implement public transit where passenger-vehicle AADT is high (because it means there’s a high demand for it)* and save freeways for arterial roads that have a ridiculously high number of trucks (i.e. Honorable Grey Herb Parkway).

* Under these criteria, Highway 9 between Orangeville and Newmarket can see a new Go service.

[ssiguy]

RER will make little dent in GTA road congestion and especially the city of Toronto until they,, at a minimum, drastically bring down the fares and have FULL fare integration across the system, and preferable bring in standard transit fares. Until such a time RER will simply be an electrified and more frequent service that most will avoid because they simply can't afford to take it. Transit isn't effective unless it's accessible.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The 407 is built in a utility corridor that was designate do once hen 60's.

The liberals in Ontario were starting to go more anti highway towards the end of their term - their 15 years were generally pretty nice for highways, but they cancelled the GTA west highway (thankfully now restarted) towards the end of their term.

I'm hoping that the PCs up highway spending. The spending rate was already pretty high - but Ontarios growth rates are so high that MTO is fighting a constant uphill battle against traffic. I can identify an easy $10 billion in additional highway projects that are unfounded that are needed yesterday.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

For GTHA, though, I would still prioritize RER over highway projects because the highways really need some serious unclogging. If I were to be in charge, I’d probably implement public transit where passenger-vehicle AADT is high (because it means there’s a high demand for it)* and save freeways for arterial roads that have a ridiculously high number of trucks (i.e. Honorable Grey Herb Parkway).

* Under these criteria, Highway 9 between Orangeville and Newmarket can see a new Go service.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

RER will make little dent in GTA road congestion and especially the city of Toronto until they,, at a minimum, drastically bring down the fares and have FULL fare integration across the system, and preferable bring in standard transit fares. Until such a time RER will simply be an electrified and more frequent service that most will avoid because they simply can't afford to take it. Transit isn't effective unless it's accessible.

How wide of a highway is enough?

The 401 by Pearson is 18 lanes wide. When do we get to the point that wider highways are not solving anything. If they were, the 401 would be smooth sailing even in rush hour.

[Dengler Avenue]

What if we convert some of those into HOV lanes? For the record, 401’s bad even on the weekends.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

How wide of a highway is enough?

The 401 by Pearson is 18 lanes wide. When do we get to the point that wider highways are not solving anything. If they were, the 401 would be smooth sailing even in rush hour.

It's not just the number of lanes that matter. They need to connect into well-designed interchanges, HOV/HOT lanes need their own ramps, etc. Adding lanes but making it hard to get on and off the freeway is not going to solve much. More than likely it'll make things worse. People who live in the Toronto area should be super thankful that their provincial government doesn't act anything like B.C.'s when it comes to road building. Your transportation department seems to know what's it's doing most of the time which is the exact opposite of B.C.'s.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

How wide of a highway is enough?

The 401 by Pearson is 18 lanes wide. When do we get to the point that wider highways are not solving anything. If they were, the 401 would be smooth sailing even in rush hour.

Toronto's just too swamped with traffic that adding additional lanes doesn't appreciably change the dynamics of traffic in the area.

All that traffic has to go somewhere - backups onto the smaller highways and streets filter back onto the 401.

Moving commuters towards mass transit will help - the major cities of the world (London, New York and Tokyo) don't really rely on highway transit for the bulk of their commuting patterns.

[ZTrade]

If the 401 after the 427 continued having express lanes, that would help traffic. Then once construction is complete, the 401 would have a continuous express-collector system from Milton to Highway 412 (if they extend it to there).

[sonysnob]

^ While I agree with you and would love to see additional capacity added to the 401 between the 427 and the 400, personally, I think the GTA just needs another east-west freeway.

Paris has more east-west freeways than Toronto does.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

What if we convert some of those into HOV lanes? For the record, 401’s bad even on the weekends.

Originally Posted by wave46

Toronto's just too swamped with traffic that adding additional lanes doesn't appreciably change the dynamics of traffic in the area.

All that traffic has to go somewhere - backups onto the smaller highways and streets filter back onto the 401.

Moving commuters towards mass transit will help - the major cities of the world (London, New York and Tokyo) don't really rely on highway transit for the bulk of their commuting patterns.

Originally Posted by sonysnob

^ While I agree with you and would love to see additional capacity added to the 401 between the 427 and the 400, personally, I think the GTA just needs another east-west freeway.

Paris has more east-west freeways than Toronto does.

First off, they should make the Express HOT/HOV and no commercial vehicles over 4500kgs except buses. That would then ease the congestion, but only in the express.

Toronto has 2 east west freeways (401 and 407) and 1 almost east west freeway (QEW/Gardner/DVP). Adding another one ain't gonna do squat. The 407 is so bad, people now pay to sit in traffic on it.

In short, adding more lanes is never going to solve the traffic problems.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

First off, they should make the Express HOT/HOV and no commercial vehicles over 4500kgs except buses. That would then ease the congestion, but only in the express.

Toronto has 2 east west freeways (401 and 407) and 1 almost east west freeway (QEW/Gardner/DVP). Adding another one ain't gonna do squat. The 407 is so bad, people now pay to sit in traffic on it.

In short, adding more lanes is never going to solve the traffic problems.

For 407, let’s see if MTO’s serious about 407 transitway. I imagine that, if the bus tickets are affordable, it can take loads of cars off 401 and 407. There’s a thread on this in the Hamilton (ON) subforum.

[sonysnob]

The idea of doing anything drastic like changing three or four lanes, per direction on the 401, to HOT is stupid. People use the 401, and have made decisions about where they live and work based on the reality of available transportation capacity (highway or otherwise). Drastically changing the 401 is just going to punish people who are going about there daily lives.

The 407 costs almost 60 cents (!) per kilometer, 60 cents per kilometer. Swimmer Spe, for all of the bitching you do about the highways in the north, imagine paying 60 cents per kilometer to drive to work every day. 60 cents per kilometer adds up quickly. I don't take it, but if I were to take the eastern extension of the 407 and 412 to work everyday (at a rate of only 30 cents/kilometer), there and back, my tolls would be somewhere about $12 per day. In addition to the $60 per month that I pay for parking. That's not chump change. The idea that millions of more people are going to live in the GTA but we can't build any new highway capacity for those people is irritating. As good as we make public transit, some of these new residents are going to have to drive places from time to time, and we need the highway infrastructure to support that.

There is never going to be a situation where congestion is eliminated completely from Toronto (or any city), but at least if you built the GTA West highway, for example, and toll it, you'd probably put some downward pressure on the 407 tolls, which I wouldn't be a bad thing for the people who actually live here.