TCH east of Nipigon (La route transcanadienne à l'est de Nipigon)

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by wave46

It's not Elliot Lake, which doesn't have any other raison d'etre other than to be a retirement town after the mines closed.

It has a decent cadre of young students for Nipissing University and Canadore College.

It has the CFB, regional hospital and Ontario government offices that employ the middle-aged population, along with other private employers. So, there's a decent amount of working age population in the city.

So other than the need to diversify the economy, North Bay's actually doing quite decent.

A roundabout has the disadvantage of slowing down through traffic regardless of if there's any need to.

That's a fair point.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

So other than the need to diversify the economy, North Bay's actually doing quite decent.

It is doing OK. It's not collapsing, but there has been an erosion of private sector employment in the past decade. A number of industrial manufacturing employers have shut down in the last 15 years.

It is becoming less diverse and more dependent on government which is concerning. This is happening at a nation-wide level too, so I'm not sure how much North Bay is deviating from national trends.

I'll stop here, as we're kind of wandering off-topic.

[Ottawaresident]

Originally Posted by wave46

Resource-based hinterlands have been suffering across the country, outside of agricultural areas. Northern NB, the outports of Newfoundland, Cape Breton, the small towns of northern Manitoba are some examples.

As commodity prices wobble downwards, I'd say you are right.

Originally Posted by wave46

I'd say the biggest at-risk city is the Sault. Essar Steel has wobbled into and out of bankruptcy repeatedly. There will come a day when the government doesn't bail it out and decides to wash its hands of the whole affair. That will hurt.

It also has the most potential, especially for tourism. It is easily accesible by freeway from the US, something all the other cities won't have, except Sudbury when the 400 opens.

Originally Posted by wave46

The cities with the best prospects are Sudbury and Thunder Bay. They're both largish regional centres with enough sway to attract people to work, study and live there, so that will keep them slowly growing (or not declining at least). Sudbury has the advantage of being a lower-cost region for Ottawa to outsource menial government services to - hence why the CRA is expanding there (yay bilingual population).

Sudbury is still somewhat dependent on tourism, mining, and the universities. If the Universities move away, it will suffer. The Big Nickel no longer attracts big crowds. I went there this summer. Thunder Bay is too remote from Canada. It has little tourism, though that may change, and mining is north of Nipigon.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

A divided highway with a roundabout?

I've seen it on Route 117 in Quebec going through Mont-Tremblant. There are a bunch of roundabouts along that section of 4 land divided highway.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by wave46

Resource-based hinterlands have been suffering across the country, outside of agricultural areas. Northern NB, the outports of Newfoundland, Cape Breton, the small towns of northern Manitoba are some examples.

I'd say the biggest at-risk city is the Sault. Essar Steel has wobbled into and out of bankruptcy repeatedly. There will come a day when the government doesn't bail it out and decides to wash its hands of the whole affair. That will hurt.

The cities with the best prospects are Sudbury and Thunder Bay. They're both largish regional centres with enough sway to attract people to work, study and live there, so that will keep them slowly growing (or not declining at least). Sudbury has the advantage of being a lower-cost region for Ottawa to outsource menial government services to - hence why the CRA is expanding there (yay bilingual population).

Timmins will be the quintessential Northern town/city. It pretty much epitomizes the economy of Northern Ontario - forestry, mining and government. If gold prices stay high, Timmins will do ok. If commodity prices tank, Timmins will hurt.

North Bay is a government and retirement town. As government goes, so does North Bay. I suspect it will be spared the worst of upcoming cuts, as Vic Fideli doesn't want to poison his chance for re-election.

As for federal government offices, Timmins has the pensions (CPP and OAS) processing office for a good chunk of the province. There are now over 200 people working there.

And there isn't much forestry in Timmins anymore. Lots of trees being cut but the processing is mostly done in Quebec.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I've seen it on Route 117 in Quebec going through Mont-Tremblant. There are a bunch of roundabouts along that section of 4 land divided highway.

Only in Mont-Tremblant though. From the looks of it, they used to be traffic lights.

Also, don’t forget about the one on AB-43 Grande Praire Bypass.

[Acajack]

Boulevard des Allumettières which is QC-148 has several roundabouts on it in Gatineau, but it's not really a highway with a high speed limit in those segments. The max is 50.

Also Boulevard St-Joseph which is QC-105 has a roundabout again. Speed limit is 50.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Boulevard des Allumettières which is QC-148 has several roundabouts on it in Gatineau, but it's not really a highway with a high speed limit in those segments. The max is 50.

Also Boulevard St-Joseph which is QC-105 has a roundabout again. Speed limit is 50.

Lets talk about highways with roundabouts that have speeds in excess of 80 km/hr.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Lets talk about highways with roundabouts that have speeds in excess of 80 km/hr.

80 km/hr at the roundabout? I don’t think that’s a safe speed. Or maybe they only exist in England. For the record, Route 117 through Mont-Tremblant has speed limit 70 km/hr, even at the roundabouts.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

80 km/hr at the roundabout? I don’t think that’s a safe speed. Or maybe they only exist in England. For the record, Route 117 through Mont-Tremblant has speed limit 70 km/hr, even at the roundabouts.

In Ireland, I’ve encountered roundabouts on a 2 lane undivided highway with a posted 100 km/h speed limit.

In Ontario, the newly expanded highway 26 has them near Collingwood.

I’m just looking forward to the day when there’s actually a shovel in the ground for the 417 expansion...might be a long time with a Toronto-centric Premier.

[Ottawaresident]

Well, yes and no. I think the 417 Extension has made it past the line by line review, though correct me if I'm wrong. Doug Ford is a Toronto Centric premier, considering what his brother Rob did before his death. I hope an expansion is built (Bypass Renfrew) preferably to Petawawa. They should be building freeways when they realign the road, including a needed bypass of Cobden the Two Rivers and Mattawa. The last one really confused us.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

Well, yes and no. I think the 417 Extension has made it past the line by line review, though correct me if I'm wrong. Doug Ford is a Toronto Centric premier, considering what his brother Rob did before his death. I hope an expansion is built (Bypass Renfrew) preferably to Petawawa. They should be building freeways when they realign the road, including a needed bypass of Cobden the Two Rivers and Mattawa. The last one really confused us.

Remember what Greg Rickford said though: "Canada should have twinned the highways after WWII."

Would it be a stretch to say that he was hinting at Ottawa for federal money, be it for 17 between Manitoba/Ontario boundary and Kenora, for the remainder of 69, or for 417 Extension?

Also more recent news: https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/p...hway-project-as-regions-priority-1235603. It seems that Rickford was rubbing it in on Gravelle without even hiding it.

[Ottawaresident]

Agreed, but before WWII there wasn't even a road across Canada so Ontario's Northern lands. The Government is so fragmented that I can't even imagine it providing funding, although Stephen Harper hinted that he wanted to fund a freeway for the TCH during his third term.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

80 km/hr at the roundabout? I don’t think that’s a safe speed. Or maybe they only exist in England. For the record, Route 117 through Mont-Tremblant has speed limit 70 km/hr, even at the roundabouts.

I don't see why people get up in arms about approach speeds for roundabouts. A traffic signal potentially requires approaching vehicles to come to a full stop and nobody bats an eye at an 80km/h approach speed, but for some reason there is this popular idea (it's not just from you Dengler, but from others as well) that approaching a roundabout at 80 is somehow unsafe. This concept annoys me.

[F. Lionel]

(removed)

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Remember what Greg Rickford said though: "Canada should have twinned the highways after WWII."

Would it be a stretch to say that he was hinting at Ottawa for federal money, be it for 17 between Manitoba/Ontario boundary and Kenora, for the remainder of 69, or for 417 Extension?

Also more recent news: https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/p...hway-project-as-regions-priority-1235603. It seems that Rickford was rubbing it in on Gravelle without even hiding it.

Rickford keeps throwing shade and using the politics of division here in the North. No mention at all of Freedom Rd, or the involvement of the City of Winnipeg in that funding, or the drawn out negotiations to get to that point, or the fact that any design and highway expansion along that stretch was entirely hinging on the involvement of Shoal Lake... just keep blaming the Liberals for not building the twinned highway.

Sadly, even when this is built it still won't connect to the twinned highway in MB because that ends west of Falcon Lake. Even with the most recent announcement of highway construction from the MB government this stretch STILL is not on the table for the foreseeable future.

Gravelle takes the higher road when responding to Rickford.

Gravelle states that only 30km or so still require funding.


Map the Ontario Liberals released prior to the election, hosted by the CBC

All of the Orange lines are now completed and fully twinned.

If I add up the 3 black lines (approved for design) I get 22.8km.

So either Gravelle was being very general or one of the areas where detailed design is underway (yellow lines) is not actually funded. If this is true then I would suggest it is the stretch from the east junction of 587 to Coughlin Rd as this is the newest segment to head to detailed design.

But, at least, this means that some of the bigger stretches (and the new bridge over the Black Sturgeon) are still going ahead.

addendum: There has been a semi tanker on its side in the median near the Terry Fox monument for at least 24 hours now. All plowed out but not yet removed. Sad.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

Well, yes and no. I think the 417 Extension has made it past the line by line review, though correct me if I'm wrong. Doug Ford is a Toronto Centric premier, considering what his brother Rob did before his death. I hope an expansion is built (Bypass Renfrew) preferably to Petawawa. They should be building freeways when they realign the road, including a needed bypass of Cobden the Two Rivers and Mattawa. The last one really confused us.

Two Rivers? If you mean the hamlet of Deux Rivières there's absolutely nothing there except for maybe 2-3 buildings. So no need to bypass that.

I think you might mean Deep River, just north of Petawawa. There the 17 goes through the town's Tim Hortons, Canadian Tire, etc. strip and there is quite a bit of housing along the road. That stretch could definitely use a bypass.

Cobden and Mattawa too.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by F. Lionel

Rickford keeps throwing shade and using the politics of division here in the North. No mention at all of Freedom Rd, or the involvement of the City of Winnipeg in that funding, or the drawn out negotiations to get to that point, or the fact that any design and highway expansion along that stretch was entirely hinging on the involvement of Shoal Lake... just keep blaming the Liberals for not building the twinned highway.

Sadly, even when this is built it still won't connect to the twinned highway in MB because that ends west of Falcon Lake. Even with the most recent announcement of highway construction from the MB government this stretch STILL is not on the table for the foreseeable future.

Gravelle takes the higher road when responding to Rickford.

Gravelle states that only 30km or so still require funding.


Map the Ontario Liberals released prior to the election, hosted by the CBC

All of the Orange lines are now completed and fully twinned.

If I add up the 3 black lines (approved for design) I get 22.8km.

So either Gravelle was being very general or one of the areas where detailed design is underway (yellow lines) is not actually funded. If this is true then I would suggest it is the stretch from the east junction of 587 to Coughlin Rd as this is the newest segment to head to detailed design.

But, at least, this means that some of the bigger stretches (and the new bridge over the Black Sturgeon) are still going ahead.

addendum: There has been a semi tanker on its side in the median near the Terry Fox monument for at least 24 hours now. All plowed out but not yet removed. Sad.

Good reminder about Freedom Road. I didn't know the negotiation was that drawn out. For the record, though, it was completely the City of Winnipeg's fault to cut the island off from the mainland a century ago. Rickford probably thought that it was Winnipeg and Manitoba's duty to fix the mess, and I actually agree with him on that. Spatting with Gravelle was absolutely unnecessary though.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Two Rivers? If you mean the hamlet of Deux Rivières there's absolutely nothing there except for maybe 2-3 buildings. So no need to bypass that.

I think you might mean Deep River, just north of Petawawa. There the 17 goes through the town's Tim Hortons, Canadian Tire, etc. strip and there is quite a bit of housing along the road. That stretch could definitely use a bypass.

Cobden and Mattawa too.

That's exactly what I said earlier. Say two rivers, and you're gonna confuse the Quebecois.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

That's exactly what I said earlier. Say two rivers, and you're gonna confuse the Quebecois.

I've been through there many times. I doubt anyone speaks French there even if the official name really is Deux Rivières or Deux Rivieres.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've been through there many times. I doubt anyone speaks French there even if the official name really is Deux Rivières or Deux Rivieres.

Speaking of that, when Samuel de Champlain first explored Ontario, he named what is now Deep River Rivière Creuse. It's pretty neat that Ontario named a provincial park after him between Rutherglen and Mattawa.