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  #19321  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 4:54 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
One quote, from many, from skyscraper NYC page on the Amazon project----

"Yet the political stakes in this fight may be greater than the economic benefits. Opponents say Amazon’s arrival would have much less of an impact than Cuomo and de Blasio would have the public believe. The city’s economy already employs 4.6 million people, and it produced 71,000 new jobs in 2018.

The influx of new employees would average 1,600 a year -- a much more muted impact in a city of 8.6 million than in northern Virginia, where Amazon plans to build an equivalent campus. The financial incentives sound less impressive in a state and city that have proposed combined budgets totaling more than $267 billion next year."

I get it that just about every city wants Amazon, but it sounds like their impact on NYC hardly seems worth the cost. Where if they came here they'd immediately become a big fish. But did anyone really think the selection process was going to be completely rational and fair.
They want NYC. They will get NYC.

The idea of this whole BS process opening up to another round literally makes me feel sick. Bezos isn't gonna let these guys impact their plans one iota and they made it perfectly clear that despite the no-brainer Sckuykill Yards location, they had no interest in Philly.

I think we dodged a bullet with their decision, honestly. We're growing just fine organically without having to give away the farm like they wanted.
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  #19322  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 5:19 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
They want NYC. They will get NYC.
Eh, we'll see. I know for sure that there's a pretty powerful and vocal contingent in LIC that are ready to dig their heels in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
The idea of this whole BS process opening up to another round literally makes me feel sick. Bezos isn't gonna let these guys impact their plans one iota and they made it perfectly clear that despite the no-brainer Sckuykill Yards location, they had no interest in Philly.
Source? We had a forumer through hearsay make that statement and the context is important. Also, they probably always wanted DC and NY, and through the process got reams of data on future potential locales.


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Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
I think we dodged a bullet with their decision, honestly. We're growing just fine organically without having to give away the farm like they wanted.
Are we? I mean, we're growing a little, sure, but adding 10,000 decent paying jobs seems like an insane thing to wish away in a city always in need of $$. Plus the public image enhancement we'd receive would be immeasurable.
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  #19323  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 5:51 PM
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iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
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We have the marketed sites and enough housing stock to accomodate various incomes within and outside city limits, and regional and local transit systems to absorb their growth model over the next few years. Of course, improvements could and will be made if it becomes a reality. But for now, it is really out of our hands, until we know if they will stay in LIC or not. Time will tell for sure, but no one should be holding their breaths. They played their cards and made a lot of cities look like fools by revealing insight that did not net a win.
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  #19324  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 8:00 PM
Capsule F Capsule F is offline
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We need to let go of this. Just because we are perfect for Amazon doesn't mean anything, sadly.
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  #19325  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 10:21 PM
WheresMyKeys WheresMyKeys is offline
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On the horizon...,

So first time posting but long time follower. With all the talk about finding companies and a potential demand slow down, I still think there is a lot of stuff in the pipeline from some pretty determined developers.

Looking back at each decade here are the number of towers built 400ft plus. Clearly the 80’s was elite and for obvious reasons. But wouldn’t you speculate that we will eclipse our 80’s output in the 2020’s?

10’s = 5 (include the W)
00’s = 5
90’s = 5
80’s = 7
70’s = 5
Older= 5

Here’s what I’m hoping to be completed in the 20’s... even if two of these don’t come to fruition (and assuming no other pleasant surprises) this still puts us at 9 - the best decade on record!

Schuylkill Yards = 3 towers
Comcast = 1
The Laurel = 1
Jewelers Row = 1
8th and Market = 1
1301 Market = 1
SLS International =1
1001 S Broad St = 1
Cathedral Square = 1

Thoughts?
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  #19326  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 10:53 PM
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mcgrath618 mcgrath618 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WheresMyKeys View Post
So first time posting but long time follower. With all the talk about finding companies and a potential demand slow down, I still think there is a lot of stuff in the pipeline from some pretty determined developers.

Looking back at each decade here are the number of towers built 400ft plus. Clearly the 80’s was elite and for obvious reasons. But wouldn’t you speculate that we will eclipse our 80’s output in the 2020’s?

10’s = 5 (include the W)
00’s = 5
90’s = 5
80’s = 7
70’s = 5
Older= 5

Here’s what I’m hoping to be completed in the 20’s... even if two of these don’t come to fruition (and assuming no other pleasant surprises) this still puts us at 9 - the best decade on record!

Schuylkill Yards = 3 towers
Comcast = 1
The Laurel = 1
Jewelers Row = 1
8th and Market = 1
1301 Market = 1
SLS International =1
1001 S Broad St = 1
Cathedral Square = 1

Thoughts?
Where are you getting 5 for this decade? I only count 4.
CTC, W, Evo, and Cira South.
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  #19327  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2019, 11:00 PM
WheresMyKeys WheresMyKeys is offline
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1706 Rittenhouse finished up in 2010, no? 401 ft
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  #19328  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 2:42 PM
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Aaamazarite Aaamazarite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WheresMyKeys View Post
So first time posting but long time follower. With all the talk about finding companies and a potential demand slow down, I still think there is a lot of stuff in the pipeline from some pretty determined developers.

Looking back at each decade here are the number of towers built 400ft plus. Clearly the 80’s was elite and for obvious reasons. But wouldn’t you speculate that we will eclipse our 80’s output in the 2020’s?

10’s = 5 (include the W)
00’s = 5
90’s = 5
80’s = 7
70’s = 5
Older= 5

Here’s what I’m hoping to be completed in the 20’s... even if two of these don’t come to fruition (and assuming no other pleasant surprises) this still puts us at 9 - the best decade on record!

Schuylkill Yards = 3 towers
Comcast = 1
The Laurel = 1
Jewelers Row = 1
8th and Market = 1
1301 Market = 1
SLS International =1
1001 S Broad St = 1
Cathedral Square = 1

Thoughts?
I like your attitude and energy-- but its hard for me to delineate this by decades as the 80s and 90s towers were part of the same real estate cycle, so I count that as one stretch with 12 towers. There were no highrise completions between 1992 and 2004.

Of the 20's list, the last five there have a low likelihood of happening this cycle-- the former SLS being the exception, it may be the 10 Rittenhouse of this cycle (and while I'm in the comparing mood, I think the Laurel is going to be the Murano of this cycle). 1001 South Broad will be much less of a project than proposed (if it ever happens), 8th/Market and 13th/Market are going to stay parking lots for the foreseeable future.

Not to be a Debbie Downer but I put the Jeweler's Row tower at a 50/50. If we get two Schuylkill Yards towers I'll be pleasantly surprised. Of course, I've been wrong plenty of times before.

We should appreciate that the 10's cycle produced an unprecedented amount of new lowrise construction, rowhouse construction, and rehab/reuses over a much larger area of the city than any decade since the 60s.

As for my predictions? I think we'll get more towers under 400' between Broad and the Delaware on empty lots near Vine St and in the few remaining spaces in Wash West. The former Franklin-Callowhill industrial district will get at least 2 lowrise towers and lots of townhomes. We're going to get tons and tons of 4 and 5 story apartment buildings in the peripheral neighborhoods, especially in areas like University City where the zoning allows this by-right. Some remaining lots in the core and elsewhere will get mega-luxury townhomes instead of towers (nearly all the ones of this type being built and/or proposed right now are pre-selling rapidly and the demand for them is intense, even more than for high-end condos). A few ambitious developers will try their hand at high-risk developments in far-out spots such as the industrial district by 21st and Allegheny and may try out Bridesburg or Tacony. Gentrification will start targeting depressed areas that have awesome housing stock (Strawberry Mansion, Allegheny West, Nicetown). Finally, Germantown will end up looking like a combination of Mt. Airy and Media.
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  #19329  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 2:54 PM
skyscraper skyscraper is offline
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I would not hold out a great deal of hope for the tower formerly known as SLS. I have it on good authority that it is officially on hold again.
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  #19330  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 3:43 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Originally Posted by skyscraper View Post
I would not hold out a great deal of hope for the tower formerly known as SLS. I have it on good authority that it is officially on hold again.
Not surprised. But is it because of a real or perceived softening in the luxury condo market? There's not even anything of size happening other than the Laurel. I still think the luxury condo market is underserved, though there are more and more boutique buildings going up, some of which my family is looking at. Agreed with Aaamazarite on Jeweler's Row. That project is not happening. At least not as planned or presented. Those are fake renders and Toll Bros. will probably flip the property to another developer before or after demo.
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  #19331  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 3:48 PM
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Urbanthusiat Urbanthusiat is offline
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Not surprised. But is it because of a real or perceived softening in the luxury condo market? There's not even anything of size happening other than the Laurel. I still think the luxury condo market is underserved, though there are more and more boutique buildings going up, some of which my family is looking at. Agreed with Aaamazarite on Jeweler's Row. That project is not happening. At least not as planned or presented. Those are fake renders and Toll Bros. will probably flip the property to another developer before or after demo.
Jeweler's Row is definitely happening and is supposed to start soon. What does appear to not be happening is Scannapieco's tower at the Ritz theater. PBJ yesterday:

Quote:
“I haven’t made any progress on that at all,” said Tom Scannapieco, who heads up the real estate development company, in an interview with the Philadelphia Business Journal. “I’ve not gotten the terms I need from the parties. There are multiple parties and it just hasn’t come together. At this juncture, I’m not sure where it’s going to go and I’m not confident I’m going to do it.”
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...et-property-in-society-hill-back-in.html
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  #19332  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 4:16 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat View Post
Jeweler's Row is definitely happening and is supposed to start soon. What does appear to not be happening is Scannapieco's tower at the Ritz theater. PBJ yesterday:



https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...et-property-in-society-hill-back-in.html
I don't believe Jeweler's Row is happening. Perhaps demolition. But I will be surprised if we soon see a tower to follow, especially the one shown in the last renders. We'll see, though. A shame re Scannapieco. I hope he is able to do it on another parcel or is somehow able to make it work on that lot. Not sure if the other Ritz and parking garage is feasible, but that parcel is too valuable with Penn's Landing cap to stay like that forever. It's huge (spanning all the way to 2nd street) and destined for better things. Maybe a part could work for a luxury tower.
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  #19333  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 4:31 PM
JohnIII JohnIII is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WheresMyKeys View Post
So first time posting but long time follower. With all the talk about finding companies and a potential demand slow down, I still think there is a lot of stuff in the pipeline from some pretty determined developers.

Looking back at each decade here are the number of towers built 400ft plus. Clearly the 80’s was elite and for obvious reasons. But wouldn’t you speculate that we will eclipse our 80’s output in the 2020’s?

10’s = 5 (include the W)
00’s = 5
90’s = 5
80’s = 7
70’s = 5
Older= 5

Here’s what I’m hoping to be completed in the 20’s... even if two of these don’t come to fruition (and assuming no other pleasant surprises) this still puts us at 9 - the best decade on record!

Schuylkill Yards = 3 towers
Comcast = 1
The Laurel = 1
Jewelers Row = 1
8th and Market = 1
1301 Market = 1
SLS International =1
1001 S Broad St = 1
Cathedral Square = 1

Thoughts?


Let me see:
Last week 3 towers were seen on 38th Street; though it is preliminary they will be over 400'; 1 will be over 500' probably.

Liberty on the River will have 2 towers over 400' if built

Mellon Center could have 1 tower built over 400'

All this being said; I can't remember everything but we may get as many as 13 towers over 400' if all things went well but who knows!
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  #19334  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 4:42 PM
Philly Kid Philly Kid is offline
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Wow, some not great news today on a few different fronts. So now that Dranoff demolished the existing site how long is there going to be a fenced in hole in the ground on a prime real estate corner?
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  #19335  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 4:54 PM
Vince_ Vince_ is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly Kid View Post
Wow, some not great news today on a few different fronts. So now that Dranoff demolished the existing site how long is there going to be a fenced in hole in the ground on a prime real estate corner?
That is the worst part about SLS not being built. We're left with an ugly vacant lot when there were some fine looking historical buildings there before:

Developers need to be held accountable in some way for demolishing without a plan. This and Ori at 10th and Christian come to mind.
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  #19336  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 7:23 PM
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mcgrath618 mcgrath618 is online now
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You know what? I was a big proprietor of SLS getting built, but seeing as now if we get anything at all that it will be extremely budget-engineered, I would rather see someone else develop this lot.
Maybe someone will buy this from Dranoff and build a 600'er. Or maybe Dranoff will recover some capital from One Ardmore and we'll see the ball keep rolling. Who's to say...
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  #19337  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 7:28 PM
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iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
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Doesn't he have some big lawsuit going on over in Camden with having to pay back tax credits he received. Maybe that is affecting this project and financing.
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  #19338  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 7:29 PM
Elevator1 Elevator1 is offline
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Originally Posted by JohnIII View Post
Let me see:
Last week 3 towers were seen on 38th Street; though it is preliminary they will be over 400'; 1 will be over 500' probably.

Liberty on the River will have 2 towers over 400' if built

Mellon Center could have 1 tower built over 400'

All this being said; I can't remember everything but we may get as many as 13 towers over 400' if all things went well but who knows!
Actually Phase 1 of Liberty on the River tops out at 265'.
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  #19339  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 7:44 PM
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mcgrath618 mcgrath618 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnIII View Post
Let me see:
Last week 3 towers were seen on 38th Street; though it is preliminary they will be over 400'; 1 will be over 500' probably.

Liberty on the River will have 2 towers over 400' if built

Mellon Center could have 1 tower built over 400'

All this being said; I can't remember everything but we may get as many as 13 towers over 400' if all things went well but who knows!
None of those towers on 38th are getting built. I emailed the firm and they said it was just a study, nothing more.
Also, not to be a debby downer, but Liberty on the River is never getting built.
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  #19340  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2019, 7:48 PM
Elevator1 Elevator1 is offline
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Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
None of those towers on 38th are getting built. I emailed the firm and they said it was just a study, nothing more.
Also, not to be a debby downer, but Liberty on the River is never getting built.
Liberty is bidding some early packages for Phase 1 in the next month at this point. We will see if shovels hit the ground though.
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