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  #9281  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 4:06 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
It's not the same type of contract though. The current contract includes the maintenance aspect. Furthermore, we've already signed with RTG for the maintenance of Stage 2 along with the additional trains.

In the case of Trillium, it is the same type of contract however, it's a much simpler project, greatly reducing the risks. We've also already purchased the new Stadler rolling stock.
The problems so far have all been in the construction phase. Nearly every single thing we were told about the RTG contract has turned out to be false. Until that is sorted out, or new staff are put in place, it would be incredibly foolish to embark on a multi billion dollar contract.
     
     
  #9282  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 5:32 PM
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Will LRT be delayed a third time?
Rideau Transit Group officials will give an update at Tuesday's finance committee meeting

Joanne Chianello · CBC News
Posted: Feb 08, 2019 10:19 AM ET | Last Updated: 36 minutes ago


When city officials are asked whether the LRT will be ready by March 31, and they launch into a dissertation about the importance of safety, it's a good time to start wondering whether the $2.1-billion project will be delayed for the third time.

After tabling the 2019 budget at the transit commission meeting Wednesday, OC Transpo and transportation general manager John Manconi was asked specifically if he had confidence the Rideau Transit Group would turn over the 12.5-km Confederation Line on deadline, and here's what he had to say.

"You've heard me over and over again — the train will launch when it's tested, commissioned, safe to do so," Manconi told reporters.

"Get it up and running when it's ready to run. That's our mandate."

Coun. Allan Hubley, the new chair of the transit commission, piped in on the subject of safety: "That's our first priority and our only priority … We have to have the trains fully tested and safe before they start running and taking passengers."

It's not the first time Manconi and others have raised the importance of safety when asked if the LRT project was on schedule.

In 2017, Manconi outright refused to speak about the original May 2018 deadline, even though it was spelled out in the contract.

Falling back on the "safety" argument is somewhat galling, because it implies people — usually reporters — wanting to know if the largest project in Ottawa's history is on time somehow don't care whether the system is also safe.

There are other indications that meeting the March 31 deadline could be in jeopardy.

For one, Mayor Jim Watson — who has not used his "on time, on budget" slogan for LRT in some time — told a local radio station he was concerned RTG might not meet its deadline.

"I'm always a bit of a doubter. I'll believe it when I see it," he told the station.

Always a doubter? That's not how we remember it. As recently as November, Watson told reporters he had "great confidence" LRT would be up and running by the end of the first quarter of 2019.

RTG, a consortium of international companies led by SNC Lavalin and Dragados, has refused to answer media questions about the project.

Last week, CBC asked about reports of water in the tunnel and Rideau Station, and asked whether RTG was still on track to meet the upcoming deadline.

After days of no response whatsoever, on Monday, a spokesperson for RTG wrote back to say the company had received the email, "but will not be providing comment."

However, RTG officials will be on the hot seat Tuesday. They have been summoned to appear before the finance and economic development committee to answer directly to councillors, something that has rarely happened since the contract was awarded more than six years ago.

Perhaps they're coming to deliver good news in person. More likely, though, councillors will want to ask RTG officials some tough questions that in the past have been directed at Manconi, who didn't — and should not be expected to — have the answers.

Has the train been tested through the entirety of the tunnel? Is there water in the tunnel, as workers have reported to CBC? How is the complex communications system — the one Manconi has expressed so much concern about — working? Where is RTG in its testing schedule?

And when might RTG be ready to run the light-rail system on a full schedule for 12 days straight, as called for in the contract?

On Tuesday, we'll get the answers to these concerns. But we've had a right to ask them before now.

Joanne Chianello is an award-winning journalist and CBC Ottawa's city affairs analyst. You can email her at [email protected] or tweet her at @jchianello.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-lrt-third-delay-possible-1.5010032
     
     
  #9283  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 6:20 PM
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I imagine Phase 2 works in 2019 will be limited to early stage tunneling for the Dominion-Lincoln Fields tunnel.
     
     
  #9284  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 6:23 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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I imagine the RTG contract is extremely complex. With the enormous cost of this project, I can see resistance to paying additional costs by RTG and there will be an incentive towards litigation.
     
     
  #9285  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 6:23 PM
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I hope this doesn't turn into disaster like the Vimy bridge or Airport Parkway Pedestrian bridge delays.

Fingers crossed the issues are manageable.
     
     
  #9286  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 6:26 PM
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I hope water seepage is not a significant problem. If it is, I cannot see opening until after the spring runoff. It may be very difficult to solve a problem like that.
     
     
  #9287  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 6:26 PM
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Construction looks nearly done and not much left. Testing seems to be going well. If there's a delay, I bet you anything it's legal/financial issues. Probably the city refusing to accept liability that's legally on them.
     
     
  #9288  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 6:35 PM
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I hope this doesn't turn into disaster like the Vimy bridge or Airport Parkway Pedestrian bridge delays.

Fingers crossed the issues are manageable.
On no! I didn't even think of that possibility!!



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Originally Posted by CityTech View Post
Construction looks nearly done and not much left. Testing seems to be going well. If there's a delay, I bet you anything it's legal/financial issues. Probably the city refusing to accept liability that's legally on them.
I think that both the City and RTG are refusing to accept their respective legal obligations. Both are probably refusing to pay their contractual share and want the other to take on the entire cost-overruns.
     
     
  #9289  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 6:45 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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On no! I didn't even think of that possibility!!
Don't forget the Hunt Club interchange that began to sink and had to be rebuilt.

But don't worry, it is only projects in the south end of the city that turn into disasters.
     
     
  #9290  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 7:01 PM
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Last night I had an interesting encounter with someone close to the project at a high level. They weren't willing to give full details obviously, but here's what I took from the conversation:

Get ready for another delay.

Apparently there are big issues and related to who will pay for various problems. They said — is going to hit the fan in a meeting on Monday, and tonight on CBC news they were talking about a major update coming on Tuesday.

Apparently there have been problems such as a fire at a substation. And everything, especially the catenary system is —, and the maintenance group will spend the next 30 years patching and fixing basically everything. The contract was written in a way that has allowed the system to be built at the bare minimum requested, which will screw the system as time goes on.

Also, regarding trains 33 and 34, whatever their issue is, it wasn't just a lost computer. Trains 35 and 36 were fast-tracked because 33 and 34 wont be ready.

Basically its just a disaster of issues and no one wants to take responsibility.
I spoke to someone who works for Infrastructure Ontario who had nothing good to say about the City of Ottawa's contract management abilities on a project of this scale. They indicated that they believed the city was in well over its head, and this could be what we see coming to light now.


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RTG has subcontracted the maintenance contract to Rideau Transit Maintenance Group, so they can pack up and leave town, with the subcontractor on the hook for the actual maintenance. Here's a now-defunct job posting for maintenance workers.

https://www.indeed.ca/viewjob?jk=5debcf4b133b3176&from=tp-serp&tk=1d35ce6cva256802
RTG also subcontracted the construction out though, to OLRT-C. The thing is that these secondary companies are still owned by the same key players; it says right in the job posting that "Rideau Transit Maintenance is a General Partnership firm of ACS Infrastructure Canada, SNC Lavalin O&M, and EllisDon." These are the big names that formed RTG, just restructured for long-term maintenance.

Saying that they're skipping town is a bit of a stretch.
     
     
  #9291  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 7:42 PM
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I don't see how this is the City's problem. The city's contract with RTG is for construction + maintenance.

If it is going to cost RTG more money in the long run to maintain it, that is their issue.
The issue isn't cost, the issue is you riding a bus because the train is down for maintenance.
     
     
  #9292  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 7:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
I spoke to someone who works for Infrastructure Ontario who had nothing good to say about the City of Ottawa's contract management abilities on a project of this scale. They indicated that they believed the city was in well over its head, and this could be what we see coming to light now.




RTG also subcontracted the construction out though, to OLRT-C. The thing is that these secondary companies are still owned by the same key players; it says right in the job posting that "Rideau Transit Maintenance is a General Partnership firm of ACS Infrastructure Canada, SNC Lavalin O&M, and EllisDon." These are the big names that formed RTG, just restructured for long-term maintenance.

Saying that they're skipping town is a bit of a stretch.
I'm just quoting the source. A very reliable source with decades of experience in underground rail in this country and others.
     
     
  #9293  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 8:31 PM
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The stations look more or less complete (even the few remaining ceiling/art pieces seem like they could be completed with enough man power in a week or two).

Trains seem to be built and we've seen testing already throughout the system.

I don't see why it would be pushed back again... Even if they would need 2 weeks of unlimited testing and such (March 17th to 31st) that still gives them more than a month (Feb 8th to March 17th) to finish what seems like some minor finishing touches.

     
     
  #9294  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 9:13 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I hope water seepage is not a significant problem. If it is, I cannot see opening until after the spring runoff. It may be very difficult to solve a problem like that.
I thought that water seepage is quite common in subways as they often run through the water table, it's really only a problem if drainage isn't sufficient
     
     
  #9295  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 9:15 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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We'll find out next week. I don't think they'd hold off handover if it wasn't some kind of technical flaw. This has me very concerned.
     
     
  #9296  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 9:19 PM
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We'll find out next week. I don't think they'd hold off handover if it wasn't some kind of technical flaw. This has me very concerned.
My guess is the RTG doesn't want to hand it over until they get paid, but the city doesn't want to pay them until the late fees are sorted out.
     
     
  #9297  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 9:21 PM
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I wonder if it has to do with the cold weather. After seeing them setting fire to tracks in other cities, I wonder if there was a problem here -- either with the switches or the track. Maybe inferior steel or something like that? Someone said they saw trucks driving the tracks and not trains. Could they be worried about the tracks holding up?

The recent thaw and flooding could also be an issue, but maybe the issues between RTG and the City began before the thaw.

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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
We'll find out next week. I don't think they'd hold off handover if it wasn't some kind of technical flaw. This has me very concerned.
     
     
  #9298  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JM1 View Post
I wonder if it has to do with the cold weather. After seeing them setting fire to tracks in other cities, I wonder if there was a problem here -- either with the switches or the track. Maybe inferior steel or something like that? Someone said they saw trucks driving the tracks and not trains. Could they be worried about the tracks holding up?

The recent thaw and flooding could also be an issue, but maybe the issues between RTG and the City began before the thaw.
Call in Eugene Melnyk to arbitrate between RTG and the City.
     
     
  #9299  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 9:38 PM
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My guess is the RTG doesn't want to hand it over until they get paid, but the city doesn't want to pay them until the late fees are sorted out.
My prediction given RTG, is when it comes to completion date they'll tell council everything is smelling like roses. We won't hear about a delay until after March 1st.
     
     
  #9300  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2019, 11:12 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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My prediction given RTG, is when it comes to completion date they'll tell council everything is smelling like roses. We won't hear about a delay until after March 1st.
Their reputation and that of council is on the line. The public will be hopping mad if there’s a third delay. But it will really look bad on the politicians if they can’t get straight answers from a contractor.

I’d argue that Manconi’s job is probably on the line too.
     
     
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