Regina Construction III

[one_brick_at_a_time]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

There is 100% a demand for downtown high rises apartments. Just at $250-$300k for a 900 square feet unit instead of $500k.

Saskatoon pulled it off. So can Regina.

Agreed!

[Stormer]

I don't think 1 River Landing was that cheap. Construction costs are down a bit in Regina but I do not see a high-rise condo ever being built downtown at those sale prices.

[LittleBoy]

I feel like the assumption that the units will be $500k is possibly misleading. From a financial standpoint, a developer SHOULD (in an ideal world) be able to take over the site and create a tower that could support a variety of different income levels.

Obviously, it is unreasonable to expect a massive, fancy unit for $200-300K, but there is no reason that a small starter unit should cost $500K. Let's be honest, even nice central Bachelors in Toronto are running for $500K, the simple fact of it being Regina should be able to provide a cost advantage.

[prairieguy]

If I am not mistaken, I believe 600sq ft units in River Landing Saskatoon were going for over $400,000...
A 1,000 sq foot unit was pushing $700,000

[jigglysquishy]

$500k in downtown Toronto gets you a 600-800 square foot condo. In the most expensive city in the country. Costs in Regina are substantially lower. That same unit could be done for $250-300k here.

Right now all we have are ultra luxurious units, senior housing, or 1920s era grungy apartments. There's a huge untapped market in that $225-$350k range for one or two bedroom units. Comparable quality to the thousands of suburban apartments but with a premium location.

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

$500k in downtown Toronto gets you a 600-800 square foot condo. In the most expensive city in the country. Costs in Regina are substantially lower. That same unit could be done for $250-300k here.

Right now all we have are ultra luxurious units, senior housing, or 1920s era grungy apartments. There's a huge untapped market in that $225-$350k range for one or two bedroom units. Comparable quality to the thousands of suburban apartments but with a premium location.

You guys are confusing costs with prices. Construction costs are still higher is Regina than Toronto. Land is cheaper. No one is going to risk building a high-rise condo complex in Regina without an expected 20%+ return. With our high construction costs expect any new build to start at $400 psf and go up from there.

[curo]

Originally Posted by Stormer

You guys are confusing costs with prices. Construction costs are still higher is Regina than Toronto. Land is cheaper. No one is going to risk building a high-rise condo complex in Regina without an expected 20%+ return. With our high construction costs expect any new build to start at $400 psf and go up from there.

I really really hope not but prob another beautiful impark lot pending.

[LittleBoy]

Originally Posted by Stormer

No one is going to risk building a high-rise condo complex in Regina without an expected 20%+ return. With our high construction costs expect any new build to start at $400 psf and go up from there.

600 sq ft x $400/sqft = $240,000 cost of unit

Given a 20% markup, that would put sale price around $290,000.

To be fair, without actual professional calculations, none of us will really know the full cost of a 20-story proposal, however, given the EXTREMELY cheap land value in downtown, I find it hard to believe you would have costs run that high.

[jigglysquishy]

Why are our construction costs still so high? We're four years into the downturn and wages in other industries have been suppressed since. Of the three large construction projects, two are done (Stadium and water treatment plant) and the last (bypass) is nearing completion.

With so many layoffs in construction, surely prices would come down to compensate?

[J-Walker]

Construction costs aren’t the reason development isn’t occurring in the downtown. Its everything else that comes with building in the downtown, including the fact that most people just don’t want to live there. Being realistic, the general condition of the downtown is poor. Its been neglected by the city for far too long and being run down and littered with dirt parking lots doesn’t exactly scream come live here, and the mix of people on the streets once the office professionals clear out of the downtown isn't exactly appealing either, its mostly just the less fortunate and delinquents. The reason why No.1 River Landing worked in Saskatoon was because of the investment in public space and street-scape improvements by the gov’t, and the fact that it is on the edge of the River. Over 80 million by all three levels of government went into remediation and infrastructure in that area. Its quite attractive. Wascana park compares to this area much better than our downtown. If someone were to build a residential tower inside Wascana on the edge of the lake it would sell out in a week. Build a tower in the downtown, and you’re probably looking at years of holding costs eroding your profits.

[LittleBoy]

Originally Posted by J-Walker

Being realistic, the general condition of the downtown is poor. Its been neglected by the city for far too long and being run down and littered with dirt parking lots doesn’t exactly scream come live here, and the mix of people on the streets once the office professionals clear out of the downtown isn't exactly appealing either, its mostly just the less fortunate and delinquents.

I see this argument everywhere and it's completely wrong for two reasons.

1) Downtown and transition are actually two pretty nice neighbourhoods. In general, I'd say the public infrastructure is in okay shape (minus the Capital Pointe sidewalk). As well, the crowd downtown at night isn't so bad, and relatively few crimes happen in Regina's city centre when compared with other cities.

2) How could we ever transform Regina's downtown without a buy-in from our local community? I hear so much whining and complaining about how awful Regina is now, but a slight change in perspectives and consumer behaviour would have massive benefit for the city. If all apartments were minimum $500K, I could see a realistic barrier to people moving to the area.

However, with reasonable prices you could, and should see migration of people to the city centre, and with people in the city centre, you will see public and private infrastructure improve tenfold. We can say that Regina will stay bad forever, but until there is a push from the people we won't see any change.

[yveseluj]

Not sure if this one has been mentioned yet, but the Williston, which has been under construction for some time at the SW corner of Parliament & James Hill is getting closer to completion. Interesting concept, and quite the west-facing façade.

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

Why are our construction costs still so high? We're four years into the downturn and wages in other industries have been suppressed since. Of the three large construction projects, two are done (Stadium and water treatment plant) and the last (bypass) is nearing completion.

With so many layoffs in construction, surely prices would come down to compensate?

Some reasons:

• Much more expensive foundation costs for high-rises due to geology.
• PST on construction costs.
• Lack of competition in the trades.
• Higher pay for construction workers.

[Stormer]

Downtown is far nicer and better than it was in the 70's-2000's.

There were once several major abandoned buildings including the casino/train station, the Bay, Army & Navy, Leader Building, CIBC Building and the Motherwell Building. All were repurposed. Yes some others were demoed and replaced with surface parking, but that is now supposedly banned.

[StealthGirl]

Originally Posted by Stormer

Downtown is far nicer and better than it was in the 70's-2000's.

There were once several major abandoned buildings including the casino/train station, the Bay, Army & Navy, Leader Building, CIBC Building and the Motherwell Building. All were repurposed. Yes some others were demoed and replaced with surface parking, but that is now supposedly banned.

It's really too bad the Black Building lot stayed parking. I think that is key to developing that block.

Honestly I think we lack leadership from city hall to do anything in the downtown. It's all talk.

[BrutallyDishonest2]

Originally Posted by StealthGirl

It's really too bad the Black Building lot stayed parking. I think that is key to developing that block.

Honestly I think we lack leadership from city hall to do anything in the downtown. It's all talk.

The Black Building isn't parking though, the city has banned them from making it a parking lot. It's essentially just an empty lot. Additionally that block, thanks to the Cornwall, is dead.

I'm critical of the city as anyone, but I honestly don't know what they're supposed to do. Most Reginans think surface parking is amazing and they're not going to raise taxes to pay for subsidies for downtown construction.

The market is in the tank and short of some minor changes nothing is going to spur development when no in is leasing or buying.

[UPP]

As long as it only takes 20 minutes to get from the outskirts to the downtown, the city centre will remain unattractive. It's too easy to commute from Harbour Landing or Windsor Park to the downtown and back.

Ironically, Calgary's downtown has become more attractive to young professionals because it simply takes too long to get to work making downtown living convenient.

In Regina, it is still less convenient to live downtown than newer, outlying neighbourhoods. This is changing but change is slow in a government town on the prairies.

[Udon'tknow]

Originally Posted by Stormer

Some reasons:

• Much more expensive foundation costs for high-rises due to geology.
• PST on construction costs.
• Lack of competition in the trades.
• Higher pay for construction workers.

I am not sure I agree with your last two bullets. I know a number of construction workers who had been laid off due to the poor economy and a much slower housing market. I've also been dealing with a general contractor on a potential job and he is practically begging for the job. Plus people are not willing to pay the high prices for housing from a number of years ago, which is also influenced by higher interest rates and tougher qualifications to get mortgages now. Less demand means lower prices for home builders, contractors etc..

[PhotoJim]

Originally Posted by Udon'tknow

I am not sure I agree with your last two bullets. I know a number of construction workers who had been laid off due to the poor economy and a much slower housing market. I've also been dealing with a general contractor on a potential job and he is practically begging for the job. Plus people are not willing to pay the high prices for housing from a number of years ago, which is also influenced by higher interest rates and tougher qualifications to get mortgages now. Less demand means lower prices for home builders, contractors etc..

I insure a lot of contractors. While most of them are managing, none are doing great. Pricing is very lean. There is far more supply of contractors right now than there is demand.

[pappcam]

Originally Posted by Udon'tknow

I am not sure I agree with your last two bullets. I know a number of construction workers who had been laid off due to the poor economy and a much slower housing market. I've also been dealing with a general contractor on a potential job and he is practically begging for the job. Plus people are not willing to pay the high prices for housing from a number of years ago, which is also influenced by higher interest rates and tougher qualifications to get mortgages now. Less demand means lower prices for home builders, contractors etc..

Originally Posted by PhotoJim

I insure a lot of contractors. While most of them are managing, none are doing great. Pricing is very lean. There is far more supply of contractors right now than there is demand.

Oh yeah, the trades are suffering badly right now. It's the worst it has been since the early-mid 90's.