Canadian City Proposals

[ssiguy]

Vaughn is like Brentwood or Coquitlam Centre...……… a McCity, just add money. They are relatively sterile and uninteresting and no matter how much politicians or developers like to claim, they are not `downtowns`.


That said, they are far preferable to towers being spread out all over the place. They make transit far more convenient and cost effective as all of these centres are on subway/SkyTrain lines. This also makes providing core government services such as schools, libraries, health facilities, community centresm etc more cost effective and more easily accessible particularly for those without cars or people who are mobility challenged like the elderly and disabled.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

New townhouses with no yard by Bathurst and 14th (or is it 16th?) In Richmond Hill are selling at a million when you can buy an older, smaller home but on a much bigger lot in the city for roughly the same. York Region is incredibly overvalued including Vaughan City Centre.

but isn't ford country where they are scared of downtown?

[Innsertnamehere]

York region has tons of very well paying jobs contributing to that, but yea, it's overvalued. Especially northern York region like Newmarket.

I think a lot have to remember that only 20% of employment is actually downtowns - while many (most?) on this board are part of that 20%, the vast majority of people's or work elsewhere - and that means they look to live elsewhere too.

I know VMC has been marketed as a place for students from York U as well. Lots of investors angling for student rentals I'm sure. It's sort of replaced NYCC in that role - a lot of condos in that area were built on that idea.

[isaidso]

What's happening in Vaughan is a great example of the direction the GGH is heading overall. We'll end up with 10-15 nodes and the whole region will become de-centralized. People in Vaughan will live, work, shop, find entertainment, and go to school in Vaughan. The proportion of people who take trips to downtown Toronto for one or all of these things will go down.

[WhipperSnapper]

The region is highly decentralized. Vaughan City Centre and other "downtown" plans in York and Durham are working towards centralization however in generic masterplans of needlessly tall towers next to townhouse blocks. The scale is all over the place and really doesn't live up to the rationale of providing different types of housing units. You're either paying a high premium to rent or are an owner in a 500 plus unit corporation.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

York region has tons of very well paying jobs contributing to that, but yea, it's overvalued. Especially northern York region like Newmarket.

I think a lot have to remember that only 20% of employment is actually downtowns - while many (most?) on this board are part of that 20%, the vast majority of people's or work elsewhere - and that means they look to live elsewhere too.

I know VMC has been marketed as a place for students from York U as well. Lots of investors angling for student rentals I'm sure. It's sort of replaced NYCC in that role - a lot of condos in that area were built on that idea.

I know that. I'm looking at it from an investor point of view There are more options buying a small bungalow on a large lot on the fringes of the old city of Toronto than a new townhouse on the edge of Richmond Hill. There's been plenty of ups and downs already throughout the last 20 years and, in general, York Region has shown to be a lot more volatile than Toronto. I would get in and out as soon as possible buying there.

Vaughan City Centre is a dump. There's no justification for it to be priced the way it is because of a subway stop and one day, many years from now, it won't be a dump. That's just institutional investors and politicians are pulling the wool over newbies eyes through promises that are flat out lies.

[niwell]

Yeah York Region is insanely overvalued - for some reason a Vaughan address is seen as desirable. One of the few cases where you can hop across Steeles and get substantially more for your money, with significantly lower property taxes to boot.

These massive towers would be somewhat more palatable if they were actually built with larger units in comparison to those in central Toronto. More along the lines of the 60s/70s tower blocks all over the inner-suburbs. Current level of disrepair notwithstanding you can actually fit a family in a 3 bedroom with those.

Of course that doesn't make economic sense right now so we're stuck with the worst of both worlds. And honestly the faux-urban townhouse / retail podium set back from extremely wide ROWs on Highway 7 and other collector streets may even be worse than the tower in the park design.

Markham's probably done the best job of the suburban master planned downtown's and even they seem to be abandoning the original intent of supplying housing at various scales.

[hipster duck]

I only think York Region is overvalued for people like us (on SSP).

Proximity to downtown and urban charm are nice to have, but not crucial for a large portion of the population.

On the other hand, being in the centre-north of the GTA - a metro that sprawls predominantly east to west - and being straddled by the 407 - the only transportation corridor that actually moves at rush hour - means that York Region probably has the best accessibility to the greatest number of jobs in the GTA. This is huge if you’re a two income professional household.

The other thing is that York Region is/was settled by the affluent 1st and 2nd generation offspring of some of our most economically successful ethnic groups: Chinese, Jews, Persians and Italians. Even if the housing doesn’t scream affluence from outside appearances, these are still areas that cater and appeal to wealthier groups, with carrots like better schools, etc, that fetch higher prices.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

On the other hand, being in the centre-north of the GTA - a metro that sprawls predominantly east to west - and being straddled by the 407 - the only transportation corridor that actually moves at rush hour - means that York Region probably has the best accessibility to the greatest number of jobs in the GTA. This is huge if you’re a two income professional household.

The "world" of most people I know who live in the GTA is maybe 25% of the metropolitan area, not 100%. Which is to be expected given how costly it is to travel around there. If somebody finishes school and gets a job in Markham and they grew up in Richmond Hill, they're probably not going to want to commute from downtown Toronto. I like urban living and I would not do that.

Metro Vancouver has a similar phenomenon going on with the Fraser River.

I guess high costs are a perpetual complaint but while it is a bit clearer why not every young person can have a detached starter home in the GTA (limited transportation options and greenbelt), it is messed that up the only option (for the relatively well off) is a 600 square foot unit. It should be possible to build large, affordable highrise condos.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by isaidso

What's happening in Vaughan is a great example of the direction the GGH is heading overall. We'll end up with 10-15 nodes and the whole region will become de-centralized. People in Vaughan will live, work, shop, find entertainment, and go to school in Vaughan. The proportion of people who take trips to downtown Toronto for one or all of these things will go down.

Even in Metrotown, where there is now over 30 000 people living in an area the size of the West End, there still is not a demand for office space. Vacancy rates are high in the suburbs, very low downtown. Even in New York City you don’t see a lot of office development outside of Manhattan (I know Brooklyn has a bit of a dt going). It’s nice in theory to have live/work scenario, but I don’t see it happening.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I only think York Region is overvalued for people like us (on SSP).

Proximity to downtown and urban charm are nice to have, but not crucial for a large portion of the population.

On the other hand, being in the centre-north of the GTA - a metro that sprawls predominantly east to west - and being straddled by the 407 - the only transportation corridor that actually moves at rush hour - means that York Region probably has the best accessibility to the greatest number of jobs in the GTA. This is huge if you’re a two income professional household.

The other thing is that York Region is/was settled by the affluent 1st and 2nd generation offspring of some of our most economically successful ethnic groups: Chinese, Jews, Persians and Italians. Even if the housing doesn’t scream affluence from outside appearances, these are still areas that cater and appeal to wealthier groups, with carrots like better schools, etc, that fetch higher prices.

Most professionals in York Region will have kids and there's not much of a reason to have two incomes anymore. You get taxed to oblivion and earn too much to now get any federal subsidies for child care in return.

Insertnamehere brought it up already. Vaughan Centre is being sold with the usual shady guaranteed returns after 5 years but, also as a place to rent to students. That could happen but, why would you want to rent a brand new place with standard condo finishes (not cheap or durable) to students?

[Djesus777]

Maestria- Montreal: A lot taller than we thought (198m/185m)
https://ville.montreal.qc.ca/documents/A...Vma_ODJ_LPP_ORDI_2019-02-12_18h30_FR.pdf (pg 1210-40 ish)

[Martin Mtl]

Maestria (198 / 185 m. - 58 / 55 storeys)

[Hawrylyshyn]

New tallest for Hamilton - 59, 54 and 48 floors

Funny part is it’s not even downtown, but in the suburbs beside the QEW where ridiculous height restrictions don’t apply

Originally Posted by LRTfan

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

New tallest for Hamilton - 59, 54 and 48 floors

Funny part is it’s not even downtown, but in the suburbs beside the QEW where ridiculous height restrictions don’t apply

Oh my god....the horror.

[O-tacular]

Great Montreal proposal but that Hamilton one is horrific!

[Rico Rommheim]

That's an insane Montreal proposal. I never expected anything over 150m on those lots.

[ericmacm]

Fantastic Montreal proposal. I'm really liking what is being proposed in Montreal these days. Recent proposals such as Victoria sur le Parc, the new National Bank HQ, and now Maestria, all look incredible.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by Djesus777

Maestria- Montreal: A lot taller than we thought (198m/185m)

What did we originally think it would be?

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

What did we originally think it would be?

At first it was reckoned to be 2 towers in the 145m and 65m range. Then more recently we thought It'd be more like 168m. Now we know it's basically two towers: one the height of PVM and the other the height of le 1250.