Canadian Airport Thread

[wave46]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Wouldn't they be in the same position talent wise that they were in before the C-Series program? They managed to attract enough talent to develop that plane so why wouldn't they be able to do it a 2nd time?

Prior to the CSeries, they had teams developing the CRJ and Q400 programs. That was a large component of their engineering staff who were used to develop the CSeries.

Now, the Q400 is being sold, as is the CSeries and the CRJ is on the ropes, so they've no future project to retain these people.

They could do it a second time. It wouldn't be cheap though.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by zahav

Interesting that Canada is so dominant in the turboprop market. It obviously fits an important niche in our economy, requiring many point to point services across a wide area. YVR for sure has tons and tons of these routes, we have no CRJ-100/200 service at all, but lots of CR-900s, and of course the DH4 and DH3 galore (but no DH1s at all anymore, all routes have been upgauged)

Some of the popularity of props is due to YTZ's restrictions on jet aircraft.

The economics of props is superior to regional jets, especially on thin routes. The CRJ100/200 burn more fuel per passenger than a DH100/200/300. Canada has a number of these small markets. The Q400 is superior to the CRJ700/900 in that sense as well.

The CRJ700/900 is good compromise for smaller city connections that require a longer range aircraft - something like Ottawa-Winnipeg floats to mind as a good mission for that aircraft.

There is less aversion to props in Canada than the US.

Props have their place. They allow communities to maintain air service that wouldn't be profitable with jets.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Basically, it had to make an unscheduled landing at Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Canada Border Services had no staff and didn't send any, so the passengers had to wait on the plane for, I think it was 16 hours.

I would end up in prison. I would lose my — mind and ability to control myself. I can feel my chest tighten just thinking about being stuck on a plane on a — tarmac, screaming for them to at least open the door or let me off.

I find it weird that when planes make emergency stops in isolated communities, that there can't be some way to let people off the plane instead of confining them like hostages for hours and hours on end.

At one point the authorities might have been a bit more reasonable about this, but it feels like we're still living in the long shadow of 9/11 when rules must be obeyed to the letter, no matter how absurd of a situation it might lead to.

[Rogie]

Westjet's profit fell 67% in 2018, despite carrying record loads.

The company says it won't change its strategy, and will continue to focus on increasing yields from premium passengers.

https://wp.me/p2cMjz-ii

[Rogie]

Originally Posted by wave46

Some of the popularity of props is due to YTZ's restrictions on jet aircraft.

The economics of props is superior to regional jets, especially on thin routes. The CRJ100/200 burn more fuel per passenger than a DH100/200/300. Canada has a number of these small markets. The Q400 is superior to the CRJ700/900 in that sense as well.

"Jets with props" our instructors called them when I was learning to fly out of the Island Airport.

[YOWflier]

Bombardier on its own can't do another clean sheet design. They simply don't have the expertise or manpower or capital to do it, and as a company they struggle mightily to attract and retain the right people.

They developed C Series in partnership with the suppliers, meaning that they didn't follow a traditional "we spec, you build, we integrate" model. Rather, the suppliers were integral in the definition of the aircraft to a point where in certain cases Bombardier staff had little to no idea what they were getting and how/if those systems would perform their intended functions and integrate correctly with other aircraft systems.

Engineering was staffed with hundreds (at peak) of supplier personnel on site in addition to remote supplier staff and Bombardier staff itself obviously. Many of those staff were contractors themselves, and a massive percentage of them are long gone. In terms of Bombardier, some staff transferred internally to the Global 7500 program, itself now certified so staffing needs are dwindling, and some were sprinkled around the company to fulfill sustaining engineering roles (Challenger, C Series, Global Classic, CRJ, etc.). The rest, a massive number, are gone ... or going.

For what it's worth all this isn't totally unique to Bombardier, but the big boys (Boeing/Airbus) can cope much better.

With the growth of companies like UTC (e.g. it recently acquired Rockwell Collins) and Honeywell etc. in terms of expertise a lot of people are predicting a radical shift in how the legacy airframers do business. They may themselves be relegated some day to a supplier role, providing fuselage and maybe wings, while the UTC Aerospaces of the world design, build, and integrate the aircraft/systems themselves. As it stands they have nearly all the expertise in house now.

[thenoflyzone]

BBD is launching a 50 seat CRJ700, with 3 classes, dubbed CRJ-550. UA will be the launch customer. First class will include self serve beverage and snack station. Increase of onboard storage for bags means no more gate checks as well.

https://www.bombardier.com/en/media/news...tive-50-seater-aircra.bombardiercom.html

This is similar to AC's CRJ-705s, which were CRJ900s with a two class cabin and only 75 seats. Speaking of which....

https://www.bombardier.com/en/media/news...rcraft-to-chorus-avi.bombardiercom.html?

[JakeLRS]

The New Flair Air

2.13.19

New Flair by freerealms454, on Flickr

So it looks like this is when they will release the remainder of their summer routes and reveal some other changes -- Logo, Livery, Website.

I just hope they can get a consistent looking fleet together (have all the interiors look the same...)

[Ania]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

BBD is launching a 50 seat CRJ700, with 3 classes, dubbed CRJ-550. UA will be the launch customer. First class will include self serve beverage and snack station. Increase of onboard storage for bags means no more gate checks as well.

https://www.bombardier.com/en/media/news...tive-50-seater-aircra.bombardiercom.html


This is similar to AC's CRJ-705s, which were CRJ900s with a two class cabin and only 75 seats. Speaking of which....

https://www.bombardier.com/en/media/news...rcraft-to-chorus-avi.bombardiercom.html?

This is crazy! just noticed an order of 50 CRJ550 sitting in UA's backlog>no wikipedia article. Was mind-blown to see there will be a 50 seat replacement. I can see Air Canada scooping up a few of these.

Which planes do you guys think WJ and AC buy next? I expect Westjet to slow down the buying spree. On the other hand I expext AC to make a move by the time the first A220s come in.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Ania

Which planes do you guys think WJ and AC buy next? I expect Westjet to slow down the buying spree. On the other hand I expext AC to make a move by the time the first A220s come in.

I agree that Westjet has their fleet figured out for the time being.

Air Canada will only be making incremental orders in the near future, I imagine, like their recent acquisitions of 4 used A330s and 4 used A321s. They've already almost completely turned over their widebody fleet in the last 15 years with the 777 and 787. They're currently replacing a large portion of their narrowbody fleet with the 737 MAX.

Their oldest planes are now the 767s and A319s at Rouge, aside from the Dash 8-100 (being retired) and the Dash 8-300 (being refurbished). I'm not sure if AC's plan is to move to A330 to Rouge at some juncture when their 767s are retired out of that fleet.

I can't see AC going brand new for a large portion of Rouge's fleet, since you don't want shiny, expensive new airplanes sitting unused. So, I expect AC will pick up used A330s and shuffle them into the Rouge fleet with 787s to replace those transferred out of mainline. That's still a fair portion of a decade away.

[EspionNoir]

I’m not sure if Bombadier still has debt issue. But I The last few years they released new models.

[Ania]

Originally Posted by wave46

I agree that Westjet has their fleet figured out for the time being.

Air Canada will only be making incremental orders in the near future, I imagine, like their recent acquisitions of 4 used A330s and 4 used A321s. They've already almost completely turned over their widebody fleet in the last 15 years with the 777 and 787. They're currently replacing a large portion of their narrowbody fleet with the 737 MAX.

Their oldest planes are now the 767s and A319s at Rouge, aside from the Dash 8-100 (being retired) and the Dash 8-300 (being refurbished). I'm not sure if AC's plan is to move to A330 to Rouge at some juncture when their 767s are retired out of that fleet.

I can't see AC going brand new for a large portion of Rouge's fleet, since you don't want shiny, expensive new airplanes sitting unused. So, I expect AC will pick up used A330s and shuffle them into the Rouge fleet with 787s to replace those transferred out of mainline. That's still a fair portion of a decade away.

I see that the move I was expecting happened already. 9 CRJs to Chorus/AC today. I feel we might have another surprise in 2019 still.

2 new 787s and 4 330s from SQ replacing the last 6 767s. And then no new widebodies. Sure Westjet is adding capacity, the fear of overcapacity is understandable. But with an increasingly interconnected world with a growth in international travel(just look at Canada's immigration numbers last few years), as well 8 aging 330s...the 13 options on the 787s look very appealing. If not more.

The single-aisle story seems a lot better, especially considering they can add capacity with anybody's leftover airbuses on Rouge. But then again who knows, so far Rouge is doing new markets and replacing regional routes.

[casper]

Originally Posted by JakeLRS

The New Flair Air

2.13.19

New Flair by freerealms454, on Flickr

So it looks like this is when they will release the remainder of their summer routes and reveal some other changes -- Logo, Livery, Website.

I just hope they can get a consistent looking fleet together (have all the interiors look the same...)

Hopefully it is better than the old flare. I tried Flare for the first time today. I will not be back.

Online picked the option that included a boarding pass and checked bag. At the airport, going to check in the first words out of the Flare agent checking was not "Hi", "How can I help you", no it was "Did you check in online, there will be a $10 charge if you did not". When I showed them the printout it was then "Oh, there is no charge, you can go in the line".

At the gate, they made announcements around 5-6 time about a $80 charged for carry on baggage. It was over and over again. This is after the in bound aircraft being nearly an hour late. They still had time to slow down the boarding process with the same announcements.

We were delayed even more.

Arrived on the flight to find someone sitting in my seat. The passenger was on the wrong aircraft heading to the wrong city.

In flight the person sitting next to me wanted a Gin and tonic. (Why I have no idea, that stuff does not taste that good.). Well they don't have the professional looking handhelds that AC or WS have. It was a tabled with the credit card swipper that plugs into the audio jack. Multiple attempts with different credit cards. Two different tablets. They could not make it work. Good customer service would have been to give the customer the drink and say sorry. Note on flare. The flight attendant put the cap back on the bottle and back into the cart saying, sorry sometimes the system does not work.

The flight attendant did not even ask if I wanted something. I had to ask.

They have some work to do.

[esquire]

^ Flair sounds like a total gong show.

I recently bought tickets for my family to go to YEG and I was kicking myself at first for not booking on Flair which would have saved about $50 a head. But with all the horror stories I've read over the past few weeks, I feel a lot better about dropping the extra $200 to go on AC instead...

We all love to dump on AC and increasingly, WS. But airlines like Flair can certainly help us not to take the big carriers, and the customer service they provide, for granted...

[JakeLRS]

Flown Flair several times, had nothing but good experiences.

They have drastically improved their service over the past year but they still have quite a few kinks to work out before they become a major player.

[Denscity]

What were Westjet's first couple of years like? Did they have it all figured out in the very beginning?

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by Denscity

What were Westjet's first couple of years like? Did they have it all figured out in the very beginning?

It was called Worstjet occasionally back in the 90s lol. I flew them in the early days from YYJ to YEG (Alberta company was flying me out and purchased my ticket for me) - I vowed never to spend my own money on that mickey-mouse airline again!! They tried to cover their shortcomings with lame jokes. ( I have since flown them a few times over the past few years - including Encore).

Also just look back to the issues Westjet had when it introduced a new (used) aircraft type - the wide body 767 - to its fleet. It had lots of cancellations and maintenance issue - but shook off the negative press. For just one:

WestJet Cancels 2 London Flights In 1 Weekend, Stranding Over 200 People

I'm sure the rollout of the WestJet 787s will be better - although the WJ staff need more training to bring their service levels up to International 'large' carrier standards. They still have the 737 mentality and are not used to different classes on board.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

It was called Worstjet occasionally back in the 90s lol. I flew them in the early days from YYJ to YEG (Alberta company was flying me out and purchased my ticket for me) - I vowed never to spend my own money on that mickey-mouse airline again!! They tried to cover their shortcomings with lame jokes. ( I have since flown them a few times over the past few years - including Encore).

Also just look back to the issues Westjet had when it introduced a new (used) aircraft type - the wide body 767 - to its fleet. It had lots of cancellations and maintenance issue - but shook off the negative press. For just one:

WestJet Cancels 2 London Flights In 1 Weekend, Stranding Over 200 People

I'm sure the rollout of the WestJet 787s will be better - although the WJ staff need more training to bring their service levels up to International 'large' carrier standards. They still have the 737 mentality and are not used to different classes on board.

Yes they have had their issues but dealing with their staff has always been a better experience than dealing with Air Canada's staff. Their counter staff are the most miserable people to deal with. Always lying when they cancel flights until you proof otherwise. I go out of my way to avoid Air Canada.

[Jasper and one o nin]

I've flown with flair and was very pleased. Extremely efficient with boarding and on a few occasions left early. No complaints at all.

[Echoes]

A flythrough of the concept for the departures hall renovation at YXE: https://skyxe.ca/en-us/skyxe-updates/construction-projects

This is the next phase of a major expansion and overhaul of the terminal, the first phase of which was post-security a couple years ago. Some great photos of that project here: http://www.kindrachuk-agrey.ca/#!/projects/saskatoon-air-terminal

They also recently completed major upgrades to the groundside.