Canadian Airport Thread

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Ania

On top of my head from YYZ alone of CRJ100/200: Omaha, Memphis, St.Louis, Kansas City, Jacksonville, Savannah. For some of these destinations, MRJ is too much of an upgauge and ATR just doesn't reach. That regional flying is a strong asset Air Canada has against its other Canadian competitors.

I don't really have any solutions. In the long-term, perhaps Air Canada hopes that brand awareness will increase passenger numbers, making the MRJ/CRJ900/E175 a plausible option.

If not, well...there's no business case.

[Ania]

Originally Posted by wave46

I don't really have any solutions. In the long-term, perhaps Air Canada hopes that brand awareness will increase passenger numbers, making the MRJ/CRJ900/E175 a plausible option.

If not, well...there's no business case.

Which means current routes would get upgauged....and smaller markets could be served if new 50 seat jets were available. Oh well.

TBH Bombardier confuse me. Hopefully they can find a way to modify a Global business jet.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Ania

Which means current routes would get upgauged....and smaller markets could be served if new 50 seat jets were available. Oh well.

TBH Bombardier confuse me. The original CRJs came from modifications to a business jet, the weird part is: their newest business jet cannot be easily modified into regional jet. Consistent with what the Cseries is, that Global 8000 is a marvelous aircraft.

Bombardier took a big — with the CSeries/A220 and attracted the big boys' (Boeing and Airbus) attention in a negative manner. Boeing launched the trade complaint and Airbus swooped in and bought the thing for $1 when Bombardier was on the ropes.

That program diverted capital from their regional prop and jet aircraft right when they could have used the capital infusion for new products.

Loaded down with debt, Bombardier is in a jam. It doesn't have development capital to invest in its products. Effectively, the CSeries/A220 pushed Bombardier out of the commercial aviation business.

A shame, as the CSeries is a damn fine aircraft by all accounts. At least the swan song for the Canadian aviation industry was one of its best products ever released.

On a larger scale, the aviation business is consolidating into Boeing (who now has a joint venture with Embraer), Airbus (who has 50.01% of the CSeries, along with a stake in ATR) and others (the Russians, COMAC, Mitsubishi and what's left of Bombardier).

[Pinus]

Highest Annual Passenger Volume Reached as WAA Caps Robust Fourth Quarter

WINNIPEG, Manitoba – January 29, 2019 – Winnipeg Airports Authority (WAA) ended 2018 with another strong quarter and set a new record for passenger traffic.

Winnipeg Richardson International Airport hosted 4.5 million travellers through its doors in 2018, a 4.2 percent increase over 2017’s passenger total. This marks five straight years of record growth at the airport. The surge was spurred on by an increase of 5.1% in the fourth quarter of 2018 as compared to the fourth quarter of 2017.

Commercial freight traffic also remained high in 2018, with larger planes arriving more frequently in Winnipeg. Winnipeg Richardson International Airport continues to expand our region’s role as a critical transportation and logistics hub, as cargo plane tonnage, a key performance indicator for the number of goods being shipped, increased in 2018. U.S. tonnage saw a year over year increase of 17%, while domestic cargo carriers operations reflected a 2% increase.

2019 will be another exciting year for Winnipeg Richardson International Airport. WAA is refreshing/expanding areas of the terminal and doing rehabilitation work on the airfield as we continue the necessary work of facilitating the airport’s growth. This fall WAA will also open its new $27 million Ground Services Equipment building.

https://www.waa.ca/media/news/article/78...eached-as-waa-caps-robust-fourth-quarter

[thenoflyzone]

As one control tower closes (YKZ, link here), another one will reopen.

Nav Canada, last year, launched a review of air traffic services at Mirabel airport, in order to determine if the level of service provided is adequate for future demand and traffic growth. The control tower has been manned by FSS (flight service specialists) on a 24h basis since December 2008.

Transport Canada has now approved the change in level of service and air traffic controllers will soon provide control tower services to aircraft at YMX once again. An official timeline for the change hasn't yet been released, but is expected soon. This is very good news, and something airlines/companies that have been operating at YMX have wanted for a long time.

Just like YHU, the plan is for controllers to staff the tower during the day, and FSS to take over during night-time.

YMX handled over 65,000 aircraft movements in 2017. Although the airport never lived up to its full potential, It's nice to see YMX serving a purpose and busier than ever.



Source: https://www.facebook.com/CATCA5454/photos/a.211061242299137/2639052102833360/?type=3&theater

[Dalreg]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4901525/saskatoon-airport-passengers/

Saskatoon topped 1.5 million for the first time ever in 2018.

[SpongeG]

WestJet losing fans these days

'It's just gouging': WestJet charges $30 checked bag fee in US dollars, sparking complaints


The $30 US fee applies to return flights from the U.S. and sun destinations in Latin America

Sophia Harris · CBC News · Posted: Feb 02, 2019

Some WestJet passengers are crying foul after getting hit with a $30 checked bag fee charged in U.S. dollars.

"This is a pretty sneaky and dirty way to squeeze extra money out of your customers," said Taryn Zielke who recently had to pay the fee.

On Aug. 28, WestJet began charging baggage fees in U.S. dollars for return flights from the U.S., Latin America and the Caribbean.

Many passengers started noticing after Oct. 1, when WestJet raised its first checked bag fee from $25 to $30 — which amounts to about $40 when charged in U.S. currency.

The additional increase has enraged a number of customers who claim it's a "cash-grab."

...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/westjet-checked-bag-fee-airline-30-us-1.5002318

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

As one control tower closes (YKZ, link here), another one will reopen.

Nav Canada, last year, launched a review of air traffic services at Mirabel airport, in order to determine if the level of service provided is adequate for future demand and traffic growth. The control tower has been manned by FSS (flight service specialists) on a 24h basis since December 2008.

Transport Canada has now approved the change in level of service and air traffic controllers will soon provide control tower services to aircraft at YMX once again. An official timeline for the change hasn't yet been released, but is expected soon. This is very good news, and something airlines/companies that have been operating at YMX have wanted for a long time.

Just like YHU, the plan is for controllers to staff the tower during the day, and FSS to take over during night-time.

YMX handled over 65,000 aircraft movements in 2017. Although the airport never lived up to its full potential, It's nice to see YMX serving a purpose and busier than ever.



Source: https://www.facebook.com/CATCA5454/photos/a.211061242299137/2639052102833360/?type=3&theater

When I was a kid we flew out of Mirabel with ElAl going to Tel Aviv. My brother has been using it to fly up to Nunavut for work recently.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Ania

Genuine question: What will replace the current old 50 seat and smaller aircraft? There is the ATR-42 and MRJ70 which have 48 and 80 seats respectively...but aren't airlines going to be wanting smaller feeder aircraft? There are nearly 1000 of the 50 seater jets active with the USA big 3 alone. Looking at Air Canada, around 25 aircraft wouldn't be replaced by bigger aircraft and routes will be lost---because they would be too big.

The current network scheduling theory is that for mainline network operators, anything less than 50 seats is loss making even after considering beyond revenue. At 50 seats the best hope is for a break even operation or really small profit, but to do so requires a lot of help from beyond revenue.

Beyond revenue is the passenger flying YQL-YYC-LHR on a moderately priced economy ticket or better. For the privilege of doing YYC-YQL the pax must be willing to part with an extra $150. Where airlines and airports get into trouble is when the passenger is only willing to part with maximum $50 for the YYC-YQL sector.

The other factor against 50 seaters and below is phenomenon called single digit demand price forecast. United Airlines did a big geek out of this 3-4 years ago. Basically computer modelling can't work in places where demand is in the single digits. In UAs case the computer system either put the price of a small market either way too cheap or way to expensive. Two people purchase more than expected and the revenue management system would freak out and jack up the price.

Lets say you want to start YHZ-YQY (Cape Breton for the non-maritime province crowd). This sector gets fed by 6 or more domestic markets at YHZ. Each market is less than 9 passengers. The revenue management system has a better chance of getting the demand forecast right as Mainstreet polling as predicting the mayor of Calgary or the MLA for Nanaimo.

So how does this answer the OP question. Well simply put; network scheduling, marketing, commercial development, etc. gtake turns beating up anyone who thinks buying 50 seater aircraft for network scheduled airline is a good idea.

The markets that cannot be up-gauged to 75 seater Q400 or ATR72 will be dropped because they don't make commercial sense. This is all ready happening to the 37 seat market. The only reason a lot of current Atlantic Canada routes survive is on the expertise of the Jazz Aviation mechanics. Once those birds rust out, its game over for these markets.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

WestJet losing fans these days

'It's just gouging': WestJet charges $30 checked bag fee in US dollars, sparking complaints


The $30 US fee applies to return flights from the U.S. and sun destinations in Latin America

Sophia Harris · CBC News · Posted: Feb 02, 2019

Some WestJet passengers are crying foul after getting hit with a $30 checked bag fee charged in U.S. dollars.

"This is a pretty sneaky and dirty way to squeeze extra money out of your customers," said Taryn Zielke who recently had to pay the fee.

On Aug. 28, WestJet began charging baggage fees in U.S. dollars for return flights from the U.S., Latin America and the Caribbean.

Many passengers started noticing after Oct. 1, when WestJet raised its first checked bag fee from $25 to $30 — which amounts to about $40 when charged in U.S. currency.

The additional increase has enraged a number of customers who claim it's a "cash-grab."

...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/westjet-checked-bag-fee-airline-30-us-1.5002318

I fly from PEI to Houston in March, my ticket states 31.50 CAD. both ways. for 1 bag under 50 lbs. $52.50 CAD for 2nd bag, The bag cannot be larger than 62 inches. I am not sure if that is 62 inches long or wide? I assume there is an additional fee for going over the size and weight restrictions.

[whywhyzee]

https://ibb.co/v3PXzdL

An overview of YYZ W19 international one way seats per route, omitting sun destinations.

[casper]

Originally Posted by wave46

Bombardier took a big — with the CSeries/A220 and attracted the big boys' (Boeing and Airbus) attention in a negative manner. Boeing launched the trade complaint and Airbus swooped in and bought the thing for $1 when Bombardier was on the ropes.

That program diverted capital from their regional prop and jet aircraft right when they could have used the capital infusion for new products.

Loaded down with debt, Bombardier is in a jam. It doesn't have development capital to invest in its products. Effectively, the CSeries/A220 pushed Bombardier out of the commercial aviation business.

A shame, as the CSeries is a damn fine aircraft by all accounts. At least the swan song for the Canadian aviation industry was one of its best products ever released.

On a larger scale, the aviation business is consolidating into Boeing (who now has a joint venture with Embraer), Airbus (who has 50.01% of the CSeries, along with a stake in ATR) and others (the Russians, COMAC, Mitsubishi and what's left of Bombardier).

You forgot about aerospace sector in Western Canada. Obviously it is Boeing, but Viking is a close second and they are expanding as they take over Bombardier products. I wonder if they will move the Q400 from Toronto to Calgary and Victoria they way they did for the other aircraft.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by casper

You forgot about aerospace sector in Western Canada. Obviously it is Boeing, but Viking is a close second and they are expanding as they take over Bombardier products. I wonder if they will move the Q400 from Toronto to Calgary and Victoria they way they did for the other aircraft.

Viking is committed to Downsview until at least 2021.

[isaidso]

Bombardier will need the business jet division to put the company on sounder financial ground. If that happens they should attempt another plane (10-15 years down the road) to succeed the C-Series but partner with Mitsubishi. Partnering with Boeing or Airbus will just relegate Bombardier to a company within the Boeing or Airbus sphere. Partnering with Mitsubishi would re-ignite Bombardier's initial goal of becoming a viable rival to Boeing and Airbus.

Mitsubishi, no doubt, has similar ambitions. Bombardier and Mitsubishi have a far greater chance of success together than apart. We'd also have the heft of the Japanese government and economy behind it.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by casper

You forgot about aerospace sector in Western Canada. Obviously it is Boeing, but Viking is a close second and they are expanding as they take over Bombardier products. I wonder if they will move the Q400 from Toronto to Calgary and Victoria they way they did for the other aircraft.

I'm not very familiar with Viking Air, so I can't comment much, but I have my suspicions that they aren't well capitalized to invest in anything beyond an incremental nature on the Q400. They'll produce existing aircraft and supply parts, but any development beyond that is doubtful.

Considering their competitor (ATR) is 50% held by Airbus, the outlook for the Q400 is pretty grim. Worldwide, the Q400 has <25% of the 70+ seat prop market. Given it looks like the program is on a sunset trajectory, it will be hard to land new orders. That looks like a death spiral to me.

Originally Posted by isaidso

Bombardier will need the business jet division to put the company on sounder financial ground. If that happens they should attempt another plane (10-15 years down the road) to succeed the C-Series but partner with Mitsubishi. Partnering with Boeing or Airbus will just relegate Bombardier to a company within the Boeing or Airbus sphere. Partnering with Mitsubishi would re-ignite Bombardier's initial goal of becoming a viable rival to Boeing and Airbus.

Mitsubishi, no doubt, has similar ambitions. Bombardier and Mitsubishi have a far greater chance of success together than apart. We'd also have the heft of the Japanese government and economy behind it.

That depends on Mitsubishi, I suppose. If they can stomach the losses (and it seems they are prepared to), they might actually gain the foothold they want.

10-15 years is huge in aerospace. Engineering talent and organizational know-how evaporates after a program ends. Effectively, there won't be anything left (aside from a few left on the business jet division) to partner with and they'll be starting with a completely blank slate. I don't think Mitsubishi would bother with that.

I expect Mitsubishi (and Boeing/Airbus) will vacuum up any talent left from the dissolution of BBD Aerospace. Aside from intellectual property, there simply won't be much else left after that.

I do not expect Bombardier to fund another foray into the regional jet market. If I had to make a prediction, I would expect Airbus and Mitsubishi to launch a partnership should the MRJ prove successful, like Boeing and Embraer have done currently.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by casper

You forgot about aerospace sector in Western Canada. Obviously it is Boeing, but Viking is a close second and they are expanding as they take over Bombardier products. I wonder if they will move the Q400 from Toronto to Calgary and Victoria they way they did for the other aircraft.

P&W has a facility in Lethbridge AB as well.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by wave46

That depends on Mitsubishi, I suppose. If they can stomach the losses (and it seems they are prepared to), they might actually gain the foothold they want.

10-15 years is huge in aerospace. Engineering talent and organizational know-how evaporates after a program ends. Effectively, there won't be anything left (aside from a few left on the business jet division) to partner with and they'll be starting with a completely blank slate. I don't think Mitsubishi would bother with that.

I expect Mitsubishi (and Boeing/Airbus) will vacuum up any talent left from the dissolution of BBD Aerospace. Aside from intellectual property, there simply won't be much else left after that.

I do not expect Bombardier to fund another foray into the regional jet market. If I had to make a prediction, I would expect Airbus and Mitsubishi to launch a partnership should the MRJ prove successful, like Boeing and Embraer have done currently.

Wouldn't they be in the same position talent wise that they were in before the C-Series program? They managed to attract enough talent to develop that plane so why wouldn't they be able to do it a 2nd time?

[SignalHillHiker]

Likewise, United, likewise.



Basically, it had to make an unscheduled landing at Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Canada Border Services had no staff and didn't send any, so the passengers had to wait on the plane for, I think it was 16 hours.

I would end up in prison. I would lose my — mind and ability to control myself. I can feel my chest tighten just thinking about being stuck on a plane on a — tarmac, screaming for them to at least open the door or let me off.

[thenoflyzone]

Speaking of CRJ100/200s and what will (or has) replace(d) them......

https://www.anna.aero/2019/01/30/global-...anada-overtakes-us-to-become-top-market/

highlights

• Global turboprop capacity up 22% since 2009.

• AC is leading carrier for turboprop seats/year, with 12.69 million seats available across its network in 2018.

• YVR is ‘Top of the Props’ with the most departing seats on props per year in the world. YYZ is second, YYC is 4th.

• Canada is the largest market for scheduled turboprop services, with more than twice as many seats as the next largest market, Indonesia

• YTZ-YUL busiest turboprop route in the world, with over 700,000 one way seats available in 2018

[zahav]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Speaking of CRJ100/200s and what will (or has) replace(d) them......

https://www.anna.aero/2019/01/30/global-...anada-overtakes-us-to-become-top-market/

highlights

• Global turboprop capacity up 22% since 2009.

• AC is leading carrier for turboprop seats/year, with 12.69 million seats available across its network in 2018.

• YVR is ‘Top of the Props’ with the most departing seats on props per year in the world. YYZ is second, YYC is 4th.

• Canada is the largest market for scheduled turboprop services, with more than twice as many seats as the next largest market, Indonesia

• YTZ-YUL busiest turboprop route in the world, with over 700,000 one way seats available in 2018

Interesting that Canada is so dominant in the turboprop market. It obviously fits an important niche in our economy, requiring many point to point services across a wide area. YVR for sure has tons and tons of these routes, we have no CRJ-100/200 service at all, but lots of CR-900s, and of course the DH4 and DH3 galore (but no DH1s at all anymore, all routes have been upgauged)