Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Steveston]

Watching today's Vancouver council meeting, and hearing Hardwick pander to the NIMBYs in West Kits, makes me lose faith in the electoral system.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Transit fights of the past illuminate the present:
Remember Granville B-Line opposition, and Canada Line battle?
http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized...-line-opposition-and-canada-line-battle/

I don't remember that B-Line fight but I sure remember the fight against any kind of rail transit on Granville. It somehow never occurred to people that rail transit would replace some of the buses - they thought it was in addition to them. That article shows people were already pushing for transit to be moved to Cambie, so no wonder Canada Line is there.

[SpongeG]

Transit officer shot at Vancouver-area SkyTrain station; police look for suspect

The Canadian Press
January 30, 2019

VANCOUVER — The RCMP say a transit police officer has been shot and they were searching for what they believe to be an armed suspect near a Skytrain station in Surrey, B.C.

...

They say the officer was taken to hospital with serious but non-life threatening injuries.

The RCMP established a containment zone, including the airspace, and was asking members of the public to stay away from the area.

TransLink said in a tweet the train station was closed due to the police incident and bus service was being offered as a replacement.

...

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/ca...skytrain-station-police-look-for-suspect

[waves]

Originally Posted by fredinno

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/skytrain-train-speed



He seemed to forget all those stations preventing Skytrain from hitting its max speed, and the need to prevent standees from 'drifting' to the back of the train from excess acceleration...

Indeed. Sometimes I think regional connectivity and time savings are sacrificed for private developer interests.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I don't remember that B-Line fight but I sure remember the fight against any kind of rail transit on Granville. It somehow never occurred to people that rail transit would replace some of the buses - they thought it was in addition to them. That article shows people were already pushing for transit to be moved to Cambie, so no wonder Canada Line is there.

The thing is, it's about as long to Richmond from Cambie as it is from Granville. Granville skips Oakridge, would have interfered with bus service, and would have to probably go over the Arthur Liang or Sea Island interchange, complicating things.

Originally Posted by waves

Indeed. Sometimes I think regional connectivity and time savings are sacrificed for private developer interests.

I'd say most of those stations are actually worth it, though- Capstan Way is actually worthwhile, because of the 'gap' created inside what should be a town centre otherwise, and getting to the mall from Coquitlam Central Station is definitely not convenient.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I'd say most of those stations are actually worth it, though- Capstan Way is actually worthwhile, because of the 'gap' created inside what should be a town centre otherwise, and getting to the mall from Coquitlam Central Station is definitely not convenient.

Lincoln is a much better station to connect to the mall, and will be as the mall redevelopment happens. Unfortunately they could't call it Lincoln - Coquitlam Centre to make that connectivity clearer because Coquitlam Central Station was already taken.

[ilikeredheads]

I would argue that Capstan Way shouldn't have a station. It's way too close to Aberdeen (only 620m apart). The only reason it was suggested to build one there it's because the nearby condo developers was supposed to pay for it while said developers can use it to sell more condos.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

I would argue that Capstan Way shouldn't have a station. It's way too close to Aberdeen (only 620m apart). The only reason it was suggested to build one there it's because the nearby condo developers was supposed to pay for it while said developers can use it to sell more condos.

i think it is a good idea especially since it is all privately funded and that area is getting what like 6,000 condos? huge opportunity. plus it helps serve all the SFH not far from there and other low rises they have been building by Garden City Road.

[teriyaki]

Capstan way absolutely should have the station built. The amount of new residents in that area will be massive. Walking 10-15 minutes to the nearest station, vs walking 2 minutes will be hugely attractive to foregoing the car.

[Dengler Avenue]

Or a cheap fix: Reroute 403 via Capstan Way and Garden City Road, and keep the 407 on Garden City Road, if proximity to Aberdeen Station is a real concern (#19389). I just hope it’s possible to add bus lanes there from Capstan Way to Bridgeport Road.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Or a cheap fix: Reroute 403 via Capstan Way and Garden City Road, and keep the 407 on Garden City Road, if proximity to Aberdeen Station is a real concern (#19389). I just hope it’s possible to add bus lanes there from Capstan Way to Bridgeport Road.

Buses don't get people to sell their cars. Rapid rail does.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

Capstan way absolutely should have the station built. The amount of new residents in that area will be massive. Walking 10-15 minutes to the nearest station, vs walking 2 minutes will be hugely attractive to foregoing the car.

Yeah, but it's Richmond. The Night Market is practically a stone's throw away from Bridgeport Station... yet No.3 is clogged with drivers trying to get there and looking for parking.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Yeah, but it's Richmond. The Night Market is practically a stone's throw away from Bridgeport Station... yet No.3 is clogged with drivers trying to get there and looking for parking.

Ah but where are those drivers travelling from? If they don't live anywhere near the Canada Line it's understandable that they'd drive instead.

Oh course if they do live near a station and still drive...

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

I would argue that Capstan Way shouldn't have a station. It's way too close to Aberdeen (only 620m apart). The only reason it was suggested to build one there it's because the nearby condo developers was supposed to pay for it while said developers can use it to sell more condos.

It's a 10-minute walk from Aberdeen or Bridgeport- and it's within a town centre. Leaving the area empty makes sense for, say Clayton, not Richmond T. Centre. It's a bit lower than the spacing between Patterson and Kingsway.

I think the only really pointless station is Lake City Way. The industrial areas surrounding it are protected by Metro, and the most it's next to is a school and a small community center. I hope the SFHs surrounding it at least develop into at least mid-density apartments.

Maybe Braid, too, though that's used for some bus transfers. I'm still surprised at its usage.

I thought there'd be a station at Boundary-Kingsway by now. You'd think that being next to a stadium in a town center would be enough to pique developer's interest enough to finance it.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Or a cheap fix: Reroute 403 via Capstan Way and Garden City Road, and keep the 407 on Garden City Road, if proximity to Aberdeen Station is a real concern (#19389). I just hope it’s possible to add bus lanes there from Capstan Way to Bridgeport Road.

It would have to operate every 5 minutes to even be worth it vs just walking. Not entirely cheap, and probably easier to just build a new station.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by fredinno

It would have to operate every 5 minutes to even be worth it vs just walking. Not entirely cheap, and probably easier to just build a new station.

it is way cheaper to build the station to! because its 100% covered by the developers/people buying in.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Maybe Braid, too, though that's used for some bus transfers. I'm still surprised at its usage.

Braid is right next to Sapperton Green, the proposed development that will bring 3,700 residential units, between 750k and 1.5m square feet of office commercial and 150k square feet of retail commercial to the area where Amazon's warehouse currently is.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I think the only really pointless station is Lake City Way. The industrial areas surrounding it are protected by Metro, and the most it's next to is a school and a small community center. I hope the SFHs surrounding it at least develop into at least mid-density apartments.

Maybe Braid, too, though that's used for some bus transfers. I'm still surprised at its usage.

I thought there'd be a station at Boundary-Kingsway by now. You'd think that being next to a stadium in a town center would be enough to pique developer's interest enough to finance it.

Expo is the oldest line we have and is also the regional spine, so no surprise it's the busiest line. That doesn't mean the Millennium Line was a waste of money to build because it gets less usage (which has been going up since the Evergreen extension was built and will go up even more once the Broadway extension happens).

The Boundary station has come up on here before. That's where the station was originally planned to be but it ended up at Patterson instead. They're not going to add it in now as the spacing between stops would be waaaay too close. The only potential new stop on the Expo Line is Woodlands and I'd be surprised if it was built in the next 25 years.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Expo is the oldest line we have and is also the regional spine, so no surprise it's the busiest line. That doesn't mean the Millennium Line was a waste of money to build because it gets less usage (which has been going up since the Evergreen extension was built and will go up even more once the Broadway extension happens).

The problem with the original M-Line was the least important phase was built first, due to it running through some NDP ridings. After the original Expo extension to Surrey, the priority should have been: YVR, Broadway, then M-Line/Evergreen. But here we are. Millenium ridership was pathetic for the first ~10 years but it has been getting a lot busier.

[waves]

I found a website that allows you to make walkshed maps, so I put 10min walksheds around all the Metro Vancouver Stations including the Langley and UBC Extensions. https://www.oalley.net/map/j6i

Sadly the tool can't do smaller than 5min increments, otherwise I would have it show 8min polygons for ~600m walking.

I was curious to see how Capstan Way in particular would fit in with the pattern of other stations across Metro Van. As it turns out, about 75% of the area is within the walksheds of Aberdeen or Bridgeport.

The only other stations around Vancouver which are like this are:
- 75%+: Burrard/Granville/Vancouver City Center/Waterfront/Stadium
- 75%: Olympic Village (Broadway City Hall)
- 70%: Lincoln (Coquitlam City Center & Lake Lafarge)
- 60%: Great Northern Way (Main St. & VCC Clark)
- 60%: VCC Clark (Commercial Broadway & Great Northern Way)
- 60%: Columbia/New West
- 60%: King George (Surrey Center & 140 Street)
- 55%: Lansdowne (Brighouse & Aberdeen)

The rest are either 50% or less. The new stops of the UBC Line are all about 50% with each other up to Arbutus. VCC and Great Northern Way are two stations which probably could have been combined into one station, with the station situated between the two of them. Downtown Vancouver, Olympic Village, Lincoln and New West are all justified with them being town centers. Lansdowne is a good distance from Aberdeen but Brighouse should have been built just south of cook road to obtain the optimal 50% overlap.

So, from my perspective Capstan Way, does not serve a unique enough area, that is far enough away from neighboring stations to justify the detriment it will have on the system's capability to provide fast regional service. Transit oriented development is great and all, but people will not leave their cars if transit cannot be time competitive.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The only potential new stop on the Expo Line is Woodlands and I'd be surprised if it was built in the next 25 years.

M-Line, not Expo Line - and that one is the biggest disappointment in my view, give that Victoria Hill is practically built out (if not already built out) (i.e. New West dropped the ball, can't now tap the developer for funding).

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

I would argue that Capstan Way shouldn't have a station. It's way too close to Aberdeen (only 620m apart). The only reason it was suggested to build one there it's because the nearby condo developers was supposed to pay for it while said developers can use it to sell more condos.

and... there will be a lot of people in those condos that ideally should use transit.
The typical radius for walking to a station is 400m, while the 2 stations have overlapping catchment areas, the surrounding condo projects go east to Garden City Way, which would be more than 400m from Aberdeen.

I wonder if there was any thought to place it at Sea Island Way when the line was designed?
I don't recall any suggestion of that.

Also remember that there were supposed to be 5 built stations in Richmond originally.
Westminster Hwy Station and Brighouse Station were replaced by 1 station at Saba Road due to cost-cutting to bring it within budget.