Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Edmonton and Calgary seem to be running a lot of the original stock. Ottawa might have harsher weather, so I would think we could maintain them 30 years easy, and stretch a few more to the 35 year mark. Nothing beyond that.

Than Vancouver, maybe, but no harsher than either of the Alberta cities.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I am not sure if train's power distribution circuity can power a train that long. They could get around that by coupling two, single ended trains together (with either semi-permanent or standard couplers). As others have said, you would lose some operational flexibility to run shorter trains that way though, unless they go fully automated and remove the driver altogether.

Ya, there could certainly be an issue there. Either way, this won't be explored until more capacity is desperately needed, which won't be for another 2-3 decades at least. Like others have said, by then we would likely be looking at acquiring entirely new, higher capacity train sets anyways. At best, we'll see current and future Citadis Spirit trains extended to the 5-module configuration.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Than Vancouver, maybe, but no harsher than either of the Alberta cities.

Edmonton gets much colder weather than us, but also fewer freeze-thaw cycles as a result.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Edmonton gets much colder weather than us, but also fewer freeze-thaw cycles as a result.

And Calgary may not get as cold, but they have more freeze-thaw cycles with their Chinooks blowing in.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by roger1818

And Calgary may not get as cold, but they have more freeze-thaw cycles with their Chinooks blowing in.

but neither of them encrusts their city in salt the way Ottawa does..

[McC]

It will be *very* interesting to see how the maintenance sub- (or sub-sub)-contractors deal with keeping the many, and sometimes expansive, approaches to the stations free of snow and ice over time.

[lrt's friend]

Ottawa has a more difficult climate than Calgary and Edmonton, because of the amount of snow and ice that we get, and as suggested elsewhere, the heavier use of salt. Calgary and Edmonton have drier climates, although colder at times.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

but neither of them encrusts their city in salt the way Ottawa does..

But (unlike Calgary) the line is fully grade separated from the roads, so little salt should get onto the tracks. One of the reasons for heated platforms was to avoid the need for salt and thus reduce maintenance costs.

[kmcamp]

On a different topic, I wonder why they put the Harry-Potteresque retail space under the stairs at Hurdman outside of fare control. In most stations that makes sense, but given that redevelopment around Hurdman is a long way off, there's virtually no walk up traffic to that station. It'll just be a big inconvenience to go outside the fare gates for transferring passengers to get coffee or every flavor beans or whatever gets sold there.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

On a different topic, I wonder why they put the Harry-Potteresque retail space under the stairs at Hurdman outside of fare control. In most stations that makes sense, but given that redevelopment around Hurdman is a long way off, there's virtually no walk up traffic to that station. It'll just be a big inconvenience to go outside the fare gates for transferring passengers to get coffee or every flavor beans or whatever gets sold there.

Isn't the bus transfer at Hurdman within the fare control zone?

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Isn't the bus transfer at Hurdman within the fare control zone?

Yes, and that's the issue - the retail isn't in the fare-paid zone.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Catenary

Yes, and that's the issue - the retail isn't in the fare-paid zone.

That sounds pretty stupid.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

That sounds pretty stupid.

Actually no it doesn't. If the lands surrounding Hurdman station get developed then there will be people who may want to go to these retail spaces without having to go through the fare paid area. It even makes more sense if that retail space wants to be open longer than station hours would permit.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Actually no it doesn't. If the lands surrounding Hurdman station get developed then there will be people who may want to go to these retail spaces without having to go through the fare paid area. It even makes more sense if that retail space wants to be open longer than station hours would permit.

If the lands around Hurdman ever get developed (a big if) such a development would almost certainly have its own retail space.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

but neither of them encrusts their city in salt the way Ottawa does..

Do we salt the LRT?

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by acottawa

If the lands around Hurdman ever get developed (a big if) such a development would almost certainly have its own retail space.

If any of the future developments are like the current buildings already in the area then probably not. Its stilll a 50/50 chance that it would be.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Do we salt the LRT?

AFAIK, we don't. We are dealing with steel wheels and steel rail, so using salt is a bad idea. Many railways use sand for extra traction in winter (some locomotives even have sandboxes to drop sand on the track near the wheels). The only reference I found of railways using salt is at level crossings, to prevent the narrow groves for the flanges from filling up with mud/slush/ice/etc since there is nowhere for it to go.

Interestingly, it is illegal to put salt on train tracks in Alabama, though it has nothing to do with corrosion. Apparently train robbers would dump salt on the track to attract cattle onto the tracks (to lick the salt). The train would then have to stop, allowing the robbers to board the train.
http://loopylaws.blogspot.com/2016/04/alabama-salt-on-railroad-law.html

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Actually no it doesn't. If the lands surrounding Hurdman station get developed then there will be people who may want to go to these retail spaces without having to go through the fare paid area. It even makes more sense if that retail space wants to be open longer than station hours would permit.

They could always design the retail space to temporarily be within the fare paid zone, and then move the fare gates if change their mind and want to be outside the zone.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by roger1818

AFAIK, we don't. We are dealing with steel wheels and steel rail, so using salt is a bad idea. Many railways use sand for extra traction in winter (some locomotives even have sandboxes to drop sand on the track near the wheels).

Interestingly, it is illegal to put salt on train tracks in Alabama, though it has nothing to do with corrosion. Apparently train robbers would dump salt on the track to attract cattle onto the tracks (to lick the salt). The train would then have to stop, allowing the robbers to board the train.
http://loopylaws.blogspot.com/2016/04/alabama-salt-on-railroad-law.html

I had read somewhere, but can't find it off hand, that our citadii actually do have small sandboxes on them ( probably just enough to get them going if stuck)

I guess we won't know until next winter how reliable things are in real winter weather under actual passenger loads, but given they've run them in all weather conditions in testing the past couple years i think it will be fine. Skytrain technology on the other hand seems to often have trouble in winter conditions, given experiences in Toronto and Vancouver, although that might just be because both cities are less prepared in general for heavy winter conditions (especially Vancouver)

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I guess we won't know until next winter how reliable things are in real winter weather under actual passenger loads, but given they've run them in all weather conditions in testing the past couple years i think it will be fine.

Agreed. We aren't the only city in the world with LRT trains that gets lots of snow and ice.

Skytrain technology on the other hand seems to often have trouble in winter conditions, given experiences in Toronto and Vancouver, although that might just be because both cities are less prepared in general for heavy winter conditions (especially Vancouver)

Interesting, I would have though that Skytrain's LIMs would do better in slippery conditions. Maybe it is an issue with the U shaped guideway and there not being enough room to push the snow aside.