Ottawa Highway Bypass Corridor/Ring Road

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Do you get the sense that congestion is preventing any car trips in Ottawa?



People just drive around the cordon, and if you put the cordon so far out nobody can drive around then many people don’t need to cross it. A congestion tax works in a city where the downtown has the most congested streets, that isn’t the case here.

When posting stats it is recommended that you post the source. I found it and it is here for those who want it.

I have a few issues with that plot. First of all, that shows everyone's commute (not just those going downtown). Suburban employers are going to have a much higher proportion of employees driving than downtown employers. It also doesn't indicate the distance people are driving, but that would be a completely different metric.

The second, and even bigger concern I have with the plot is that it has lumped drivers of single occupant vehicles with drivers of car pools together. The plot seems to indicate almost 75% of commuters drive (the exact number is not known), but yet the article clearly states "58.5% drive alone in the car." It doesn't say how many drive in a car pool, nor does it have an exact number or percentage who are a passenger in a car (though it does seem to show more people are passengers in a car than walk, and 7.1% walk (33,223 of 467,940), so I would guess about 8% are passengers in a car pool).

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

My thought is that the 417 is even more congested because it's the ONLY highway or major cross-town route for the city.

It's also located pretty "north" of the City and as the city continues to grow (especially south with Riverside South/Barrhaven/Findlay Creek it's just going to get worst. That's why I believe a second East-West highway (or faster/more free-flowing route) should be considered.

There's a lot of East-West traffic in Ottawa but many people are stuck going "up" to the 417, then go back "down" after their exit as the only other alternative is bumper-to-bumper traffic crossing the city on basically Baseline or Hunt Club and having to go through 14+ sets of traffic lights (many of which you need to wait 2 or sometimes even 3 turns before you can finally cross the intersection given the backup).

As a South ender i virtually never take the 417. Hunt Club serves as the southern cross road due to its long spacing between lights. However the city kind of gummed up the works around merivale with all the big box development.

It would take me forever to go up to the Queensway and back down, that's not really an option

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

As a South ender i virtually never take the 417. Hunt Club serves as the southern cross road due to its long spacing between lights. However the city kind of gummed up the works around merivale with all the big box development.

It would take me forever to go up to the Queensway and back down, that's not really an option

I have often driven up to the Queensway from the south end to avoid the slow traffic on Hunt Club especially between Bank and Woodroffe. If I am going out to Kanata or beyond and it is not rush hour, the Queensway is often much faster than crossing by Hunt Club. But I have also experienced going from near the airport to the Queensway taking almost as long as taking the Queensway from Bronson to Carleton Place. Travel times for south end residents to go anywhere often much slower because of the lack of fast roads no impeded by numerous traffic signals.

[Ottawaresident]

The Queensway is great when it's not congested. When it's congested, it's horrible.

[Dengler Avenue]

We are technically supposed to discuss the bypass here, but anyone open to the idea of turning the innermost lane of The Queensway into an HOV lane, at least from 6:30 am to 10 am and from 3:30 pm to 7 pm, with the requirement that cars no go more than 20 kph over the traffic flow?

In that case, where expanding from 6 to 8 lanes isn’t possible, just paint the rhombus on the left shoulders.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

We are technically supposed to discuss the bypass here, but anyone open to the idea of turning the innermost lane of The Queensway into an HOV lane, at least from 6:30 am to 10 am and from 3:30 pm to 7 pm, with the requirement that cars no go more than 20 kph over the traffic flow?

In that case, where expanding from 6 to 8 lanes isn’t possible, just paint the rhombus on the left shoulders.

I don't disagree with your idea, but I can't imagine it ever happening. As it is, adding an HOV lane appears only palatable when they are also adding a regular lane (like they did west of the 416). The idea of making the new lanes being added east of the 416 HOV lanes was rejected (by the Liberals no less) under a lame excuse of the exits being too close together.

I'm not even sure if HOV lanes are needed between Nicholas and Kent. As others have said, there is very little though traffic on the 417. The DND relocations to Carling have caused a temporary spike, but new posts will likely move to the west end. Besides, most DND folk tend to start their day at 7:00 and end at 3:00, so they beat the rush hour.

I do strongly believe we should have HOV lanes east of Nicholas and west of Kent though. Eventually they could even have dedicated HOV on/off ramps at Nicholas and Lyon/Kent (though those would be difficult). This would go a long way towards resolving the rural bus issue.

[Ottawaresident]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

In that case, where expanding from 6 to 8 lanes isn’t possible, just paint the rhombus on the left shoulders.

The thing is that this is not viable.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

We are technically supposed to discuss the bypass here, but anyone open to the idea of turning the innermost lane of The Queensway into an HOV lane, at least from 6:30 am to 10 am and from 3:30 pm to 7 pm, with the requirement that cars no go more than 20 kph over the traffic flow?

In that case, where expanding from 6 to 8 lanes isn’t possible, just paint the rhombus on the left shoulders.

You don't even need paint
Just put up overhead signs.

[Ottawaresident]

I mean that the highway needs to expanded to 8 Lanes at the very least to build HOV lanes like those of Kanata. Toll lanes will never go through with the public, HOV lanes may work.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

I mean that the highway needs to expanded to 8 Lanes at the very least to build HOV lanes like those of Kanata. Toll lanes will never go through with the public, HOV lanes may work.

Why do you need at least 8 lanes to build HOV lanes? I'm not saying we should do it as the public would go crazy if the number of conventional lanes was reduced, but do you really need 8 lanes to have HOV lanes? Back in the 90's Vancouver only had 4+2HOV lanes on Hwy 1.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I don't disagree with your idea, but I can't imagine it ever happening. As it is, adding an HOV lane appears only palatable when they are also adding a regular lane (like they did west of the 416). The idea of making the new lanes being added east of the 416 HOV lanes was rejected (by the Liberals no less) under a lame excuse of the exits being too close together.

I'm not even sure if HOV lanes are needed between Nicholas and Kent. As others have said, there is very little though traffic on the 417. The DND relocations to Carling have caused a temporary spike, but new posts will likely move to the west end. Besides, most DND folk tend to start their day at 7:00 and end at 3:00, so they beat the rush hour.

I do strongly believe we should have HOV lanes east of Nicholas and west of Kent though. Eventually they could even have dedicated HOV on/off ramps at Nicholas and Lyon/Kent (though those would be difficult). This would go a long way towards resolving the rural bus issue.

Once the confederation line opens, I hope they make the newly freed traffic lane in the 417 an HOV lane.

[Dengler Avenue]

That’s exactly my thought.

As for why 3+1+1+3 instead of 2+1+1+2, it’s because you don’t want people to use the HOV lane to pass trucks in the left lane.

Remember, BC doesn’t mandate speed limiter for trucks so they can pass at 120 kph, and people won’t mind. Here it’s different. If the truck in the left lane is doing 105 kph and the one in the right lane 104 kph, people won’t hesitate to use the HOV to pass even if it’s illegal.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Once the confederation line opens, I hope they make the newly freed traffic lane in the 417 an HOV lane.

It will be converted to a general purpose lane. The contract is out for tender for this summer and the plans are available here

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=8431642&postcount=966

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

As for why 3+1+1+3 instead of 2+1+1+2, it’s because you don’t want people to use the HOV lane to pass trucks in the left lane.

Remember, BC doesn’t mandate speed limiter for trucks so they can pass at 120 kph, and people won’t mind. Here it’s different. If the truck in the left lane is doing 105 kph and the one in the right lane 104 kph, people won’t hesitate to use the HOV to pass even if it’s illegal.

Ahh. I hadn't thought of the aspect of trucks having speed limiters. That certainly makes sense. On lower speed roads, I don't see that being as much of an issue though. For example, as I have said before, I would love to see Nicholas and Colonel By Drive merged into one road north of where they start to run parallel and then add HOV lanes. That would be only 4+2 lanes, but the speed limit is only 60 (though it feels like it should be 80), so I don't see it being as much of a problem.

As for passing in the HOV lane, even when there are 8 (6+2) lanes, I find people will often duck in and out of it to pass. The only way to really prevent that would be to put up some sort of barricade, but that would prevent people from leaving the lane in an emergency. A better option might be a rumble strip.

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

It will be converted to a general purpose lane. The contract is out for tender for this summer and the plans are available here

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=8431642&postcount=966

Ugh! They really should have HOV lanes between Nicholas and the 174 split.

[Ottawaresident]

The thing with Colonel By and Nicholas merging is that it is way too much traffic

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

The thing with Colonel By and Nicholas merging is that it is way too much traffic

And the traffic is coming from completely different directions. Sounds like chaos to me.

[Ottawaresident]

It sounds reasonable but it is not. If anything, they should build a route that doesn't need turns to get from the 5 to 417.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

It sounds reasonable but it is not. If anything, they should build a route that doesn't need turns to get from the 5 to 417.

For that one, consult the thread about Sandy Hill Tunnel.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

The thing with Colonel By and Nicholas merging is that it is way too much traffic

I'm not sure how going from 3+2 general purpose lanes (plus a bus lane) to 4+2 HOV lanes would make things worse (the traffic on Colonel By is pretty light). I would suggest having northbound Colonel By go under Nicholas (it is already elevated to cross Greenfield Ave) to allow a merge and avoid the need for a traffic light.

This would result in more continuous space for recreational purposes.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

For that one, consult the thread about Sandy Hill Tunnel.

Agreed. That is a separate topic that has been well discussed.