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Originally Posted by davidcappi
Bingo. Hamilton's so wildly insecure about itself sometimes, it's like having a conversation with someone who is always trying to one up everything you're saying and can't just be happy that stuff is happening elsewhere. It's gotta bring the conversation back to itself.
I disagree with the second point though; many Hamiltonians relationship to Toronto only extends from Union Station to maybe The Eaton Centre or the ROM. Toronto is big, and there are dozens of main streets and avenues and commercial centres that look and feel very different than the financial core such as The Danforth, The Junction or Roncy. I work in Liberty Village and the vibe is very different than right downtown with tons of repurposed historic manufacturing buildings. Hamiltonians would do well to spend some time in Toronto's neighbourhoods. Toronto is more than Cityplace or Front Street.
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its also a sprawling subdivision of massive condos - unfortunately without a reason to go into the far reaches of toronto hamiltonians will never actually go to them.
One thing I do notice about toronto is that all the buildings, even the older ones, tend to be a lot higher than normal - like 5-6 stories even for rowhouses. Toronto also has a much more massive footprint to sprawl out in which makes it look a little better that everything is so tall, where it might all just look crammed in hamiltons short escarpment to lake space.
I have to agree however that hamilton has an inferiority complex, but that is a direct result of torontonians always turning their noses up at hamilton in the past, as well as those in mississauga, oakville, and burlington - it's only natural we would want to prove ourselves as more than just "the smokestacks you see of the factories you see when crossing the skyway bridge". Hell toronto only started to take interest in us when they realized our cost of living was so much lower - then they came here and realized there is more to the city than just smokestacks - so many people base their opinions off what people tell them, not what they experience for themselves.
My experiences of toronto are from firsthand experience. It has a joyless vibe, and was actually ranked the top most miserable place to live in canada. Noone ever seems to be happy when I see them on the streets, noone smiles, everyone seems to be in a rush to go places or just be oblivious to everything around them. Now that may just be a sign of the times or maybe its just more noticeable because there are so many crammed into one place at once. There are certainly downsides to getting bigger. The bigger the city the colder its inhabitants are - it's why small town people are usually so cheerful and down to earth - everyone knows everyone - in toronto there are all these community silos and noone really gets to know each other to the point where if they don't know you - even at a community function, they will simply ignore you - as if talking you you might cause their instant demise.
I don't mind visiting toronto every now and then, but I would certainly not want to live there. It's such a noticeable toronto "personality" that I can immediately notice a torontonian who has moved to hamilton wandering about in hamilton. That and they tend to have that whole shaved sides of head thing going on - toronto kinda suffers from clone mentality. Everyone looks and dresses the same, to the point where it's a noticeable difference from say hamilton or montreal. Montreal has some of the best fashion sense I've ever seen, but there is also a lot of pride too. Hamilton has that rugged kinda dirty grungy feel to it - and toronto has that feeling of superiority but a cold soullessness to it as well.
I also agree the downtown core of toronto feels very very cold in comparison to hamilton's - and I hope we never lose that vibe. I also have to agree that montreal has an awesome atmosphere, although my last few years there I have noticed a disturbing trend of anglo-hate - where they seem to be getting so obsessed in preserving their french history and culture they are becoming resentful of english speaking people. You won't even find english signs on buildings anymore - everything is 100% french. They will immedaitely greet you in french and if you respond in english you can see the look on their face as if they're going "ugh.. an english speaker.." - they are at least tolerant in montreal because they need the tourists - the more rural you go though or the more into quebec city you go, the worse it gets. Many don't speak english at all in the other regions. I have family in quebec, both my parents originally being from there, so I've gotten a healthy dose of it over time.
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