St. Paul's Hospital & Health Campus | U/C

[fredinno]

I mean, to be fair, there is a certain logic to it. Chinatown is considered historical, so it's not going to be redeveloped (not most of it, at least), and the Flats is going to stay largely industrial. Going over 13 stories here would result in the hospital complex practically towering over everything else.

[Feathered Friend]

Actually, the plan allows the hospital to go up to the view cones, so roughly 200 feet. Likewise, the city owned Sub-area D lands under the Northeast False Creek plan can achieve roughly the same height.

10.4.43 Incorporate a variety of heights up to the view cones
(approximately 20 storeys).

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/northeast-false-creek-plan.pdf

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

Actually, the plan allows the hospital to go up to the view cones, so roughly 200 feet. Likewise, the city owned Sub-area D lands under the Northeast False Creek plan can achieve roughly the same height.


https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/northeast-false-creek-plan.pdf

...St. Pauls is in the Flats, not NE False Creek...

[Feathered Friend]

A poor choice of wording on my part.

The neighbouring city owned properties (the land under the viaducts) come under the NEFC Plan, allowing for roughly 20 floors in height.

The rezoning application for the hospital is also seeking roughly 200 feet in height. Though this area doesn't come under the False Creek Flats Policy, but rather has its own policy statement.

4.1.3 OPPORTUNITIES FOR HEIGHT
The Policy Statement anticipates a variety of building forms
and heights in a predominantly mid- to high-rise form. Massing
and physical scale of the health campus will transition down to
adjacent parks and neighbourhoods (especially on the west,
north and east sides of the site). (See Map 4-1)
Maximum building heights on the site are ultimately limited by
the Council-approved View Protection Guidelines, particularly
View 22 (looking north from Main Street at East 6th Avenue
towards the north shore mountains) which limits maximum
building heights on the site to 58 metres (190 ft) along the
southern edge of the site and up to 64 metres (210 ft) along
the northern edge of the site. All parts of the development
must be anticipated and planned for (e.g. mechanical rooms,
elevator overruns, stairs, screen walls) and must be located
below this height, and will not be treated as “exceptions”.
Provision of a maximum height does not imply support or
approval for all buildings to go to the maximum height; the
height and massing of buildings is further governed by their
urban design performance

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/new-st-pa...pus-final-policy-statement-june-2017.pdf


Also of note is that the 188 Keefer (on Main) has 17 floors and 183 Georgia (also on Main) reaches 16 floors. So, view cone arguments aside, a taller hospital would hardly be out of character.

[Vin]

If not for the viewcones, the hospitals can be deisgned with flair and varying heights, or with interesting rooftop architectural features. The rendering makes us believe that it's going to be another flat-top Vancouver ugliness.





Look at the Texas Medical Centre:

https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2018/07/24/despite-houstonsstrong-health-care-sector.html

https://www.visithoustontexas.com/about-houston/texas-medical-center/

Jinzhou Med Centre, Dalian, China:

https://www10.aeccafe.com/blogs/arch-showcase/2012/09/15/jinzhou-new-area-medical-center-in-dalian/

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Vin

If not for the viewcones, the hospitals can be deisgned with flair and varying heights, or with interesting rooftop architectural features. The rendering makes us believe that it's going to be another flat-top Vancouver ugliness.





Look at the Texas Medical Centre:

https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2018/07/24/despite-houstonsstrong-health-care-sector.html

https://www.visithoustontexas.com/about-houston/texas-medical-center/

Jinzhou Med Centre, Dalian, China:

https://www10.aeccafe.com/blogs/arch-showcase/2012/09/15/jinzhou-new-area-medical-center-in-dalian/

Hey, it's better than what's there now. It's doesn't really look that horrible, most of the stuff around it is going to stay low or medium density for one reason or another, so we'll (sort of) have the varied skyline people want....

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

A poor choice of wording on my part.

The neighbouring city owned properties (the land under the viaducts) come under the NEFC Plan, allowing for roughly 20 floors in height.

The rezoning application for the hospital is also seeking roughly 200 feet in height. Though this area doesn't come under the False Creek Flats Policy, but rather has its own policy statement.



https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/new-st-pa...pus-final-policy-statement-june-2017.pdf


Also of note is that the 188 Keefer (on Main) has 17 floors and 183 Georgia (also on Main) reaches 16 floors. So, view cone arguments aside, a taller hospital would hardly be out of character.

Wait, how did they get Hogan's Alley to get over 13-14 stories? Don't the view cones limit that?

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hogans-alley-chinatown-898-main-street-vancouver

This says up to 14 stories, which seems right.

[officedweller]

Probably because residential storeys are shorter in ceiling height than hospital storeys which have a lot of services in the ceilings.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Probably because residential storeys are shorter in ceiling height.

This IS mostly residential mixed use.

[logan5]

Hospitals have interstitial floors that contain mechanical systems and electrical, that are around 6 feet high, so yes, each hospital floor is much higher than a residential floor or even an office floor.

I presume with a shorter building and much larger floorplates a hospital runs more efficiently.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstitial_space_(architecture)

[officedweller]

Thanks.
You can see the windows for those short interstitial "floors" on the Jim Pattison Pavilion at VGH.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Thanks.
You can see the windows for those short interstitial "floors" on the Jim Pattison Pavilion at VGH.

Yes. Modern hospitals have even more space. I saw some of the interior systems for the new BC Children's. Incredible amount of HVAC complexity to handle different airflow situations, and of course electrical and data wiring.

[WarrenC12]

Officially approved. Must be a big part of the new provincial budget on Tuesday.

$1.9B, opening in 2026, 115 net new beds. I'm surprised on the increased capacity TBH. Of course it is required, but operational budgets are always the problem.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/new-st-pauls-hospital-vancouver-february-2019

Edit: I used a dailyhive link because the Official BC Gov't twitter used it in their message. Sad times.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Officially approved. Must be a big part of the new provincial budget on Tuesday.

$1.9B, opening in 2026, 115 net new beds. I'm surprised on the increased capacity TBH. Of course it is required, but operational budgets are always the problem.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/new-st-pauls-hospital-vancouver-february-2019

Edit: I used a dailyhive link because the Official BC Gov't twitter used it in their message. Sad times.

Yes, this is great news.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Officially approved. Must be a big part of the new provincial budget on Tuesday.

$1.9B, opening in 2026, 115 net new beds. I'm surprised on the increased capacity TBH. Of course it is required, but operational budgets are always the problem.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/new-st-pauls-hospital-vancouver-february-2019

Edit: I used a dailyhive link because the Official BC Gov't twitter used it in their message. Sad times.

It notes that the St. Paul's Site is going to be sold. Where is the West End going to get their health care now?

[djmk]

Originally Posted by fredinno

It notes that the St. Paul's Site is going to be sold. Where is the West End going to get their health care now?

I always assumed some small health care center would go in there

Isn't the old St Pauls a heritage building(s)? Can developers just knock it down?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by djmk

Isn't the old St Pauls a heritage building(s)? Can developers just knock it down?

just because it gets sold that doesn't mean it gets torn down.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by djmk

I always assumed some small health care center would go in there

Isn't the old St Pauls a heritage building(s)? Can developers just knock it down?

There's supposed to be a review of how continued health care will be delivered in Downtown and the West End, that will probably see a new day-use facility developed. It isn't necessarily going to involve Providence Health, who run St Paul's and it's very unlikely to be on the St Paul's site.

The oldest part of the hospital dates back to 1912 and is Heritage 'A' - the most important category. That doesn't mean it's secure - it isn't designated or protected - the owner has to make that decision. As one of the reasons to get out of the existing building is its seismic state, it doesn't seem likely that the building will be saved in its entirety, but it's possible to imagine the façades being retained as part of a commercial element of a future development, perhaps as a hotel? Residential conversion (as new build behind the façade) might be an alternate scenario, with totally new structures (presumably residential) replacing all the more recent hospital buildings.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Changing City

There's supposed to be a review of how continued health care will be delivered in Downtown and the West End, that will probably see a new day-use facility developed. It isn't necessarily going to involve Providemnce Health, who run St Paul's and it's very unlikely to be on the St Paul's site.

The oldest part of the hospital dates back to 1912 and is Heritage 'A' - the most important category. That doesn't mean it's secure - it isn't designated or protected - the owner has to make that decision. As one of the reasons to get out of the existing building is its seismic state, it doesn't seem likely that the building will be saved in its entirety, but it's possible to imagine the façades being retained as part of a commercial element of a future development, perhaps as a hotel? Residential conversion (as new build behind the façade) might be an alternate scenario, with totally new structures (presumably residential) replacing all the more recent hospital buildings.

So they'll all have to commute across Downtown or False Creek for emergency Care?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by fredinno

So they'll all have to commute across Downtown or False Creek for emergency Care?

The new arrangements haven't been announced yet. They have already opened a Urgent Primary Care Centre on Hornby that operates 8am to 10pm. That covers some of the needs already. Whether there will be a 24/7 emergency room hasn't been clarified, but UBC and Mount Saint Joseph are both closed at night, so we operate with two today, and the new St Paul's will be much better than the existing facility.

[VanK]

St. Paul's is now on the market for sale with CBRE.

EXISTING ZONING
DD - ZONE G
DENSITY
6.6x FSR*
SITE SIZE
290,087 SF / 6.6 Acres