Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[nname]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

They would need more than $5 on a non-monthly Compass Card as initially they would have to have enough to cover 3 Zones plus the YVR AddFare.

Travel is free between 3 stations on Sea Island. You cannot go to Bridgeport for free.

Ron.

$5 is more than enough. For a non-monthly compass card, they let you in as long as the balance is greater than 0 or you have a non-expired transfer.

You can also travel all the way to Surrey or Coquitlam with just $0.05 left on the card.

Tap in at airport with $0.05, tap out at Waterfront will deduct $8.35, giving a balance of -$8.30 and a valid transfer. Tap in again using the transfer and tap out at a zone 3 station will deduct $1.05 add fare and give a balance of -$9.35. After the transfer expires, the card will be no longer usable until you repay the negative amount. I don't know what'll happen if you try to return that card though

[officedweller]

... as a side note, a co-worker said that if you go to the McArthur Glen Outlet Mall, you can avoid the $5.00 surcharge by buying 2 single use fare tickets at your station of origin (i.e. in Vancouver) and only using 1 of them to go to the mall. Then use the other one when boarding at Templeton to go home.
A single use fare ticket is only valid on the day of purchase, but your shopping trip is within a day (so would not work for passengers flying out of town).

Is that true?

[nname]

Originally Posted by officedweller

... as a side note, a co-worker said that if you go to the McArthur Glen Outlet Mall, you can avoid the $5.00 surcharge by buying 2 single use fare tickets at your station of origin (i.e. in Vancouver) and only using 1 of them to go to the mall. Then use the other one when boarding at Templeton to go home.
A single use fare ticket is only valid on the day of purchase, but your shopping trip is within a day (so would not work for passengers flying out of town).

Is that true?

True.

When I go to the airport to meet someone, I always buy the ticket for them beforehand so they don't need to pay the surcharge.

Alternative (and more risky) way on the weekend is to enter the station using the free Sea-Island-Only ticket, then purchase an exit ticket at Bridgeport. The exit ticket only have 45min of transfer time though.

[officedweller]

Cool, thanks!

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Cool, thanks!

It works for that day only, but is a good trick. Works well for single use ticket purchasers, not sure monthly pass users would see much benefit for a once-off trip to the outlet.

For YVR employees, they can also just use their credit cards to tap in and tap out. I think for those regular users they don't want to risk the potential for a charge if they mis-tap even though they could call and have it reversed if it happened.

Creatures of habit.

[Mac Write]

When the current order of Mark III trains is in revenue service, by my math we will have the following setup.
Expo Line
•25 - 6-car Mark I's
•19 - 4-car Mark II's
•21 - 4-car Mark III's
Millenium Line
•18 2-car Mark II's

is there an option to excercise for more trains beyond the 56? before 2026? Or either Expo or Millennium Line extensions going into service?

[jollyburger]

Lonsdale Quay Exchange upgrades are starting next month

An updated design including more lighting and a public art installation;
A new canopy above the passenger hub outside the SeaBus faregates;
Replacing the pre-existing pavement throughout the hub and exchange;
A new layout to accommodate a new B-Line, and improve motorist and pedestrian flow.
Construction is expected to begin in February 2019 and continue until late 2019.

All buses will serve the exchange; however, some bus stops will be temporarily relocated and some routes will be altered. The Kiss and Ride will also be relocated.

Neighbours can expect increased construction activity and noise associated with the work and bus operations, but at this time no overnight construction activity is anticipated.

Signs will be installed to direct customers and the general public within and around the construction site.

https://www.translink.ca/Plans-and-Proje...Bus-Projects/Lonsdale-Quay-Exchange.aspx

And the new Nanaimo upgrades:

[Sheba]

Extensive public transit: the missing piece in Delta's ambitions

In Delta, mayor George Harvie says the most pressing issue for residents isn't housing, but transportation.

"Our biggest problem right now of course is the replacement of the [Massey] tunnel, and also with regards to availability of more of a robust transit system," Harvie said.

The 60-year tunnel — and the lack of clarity in how or when it will be replaced — is the most visible problem when it comes to Delta's transportation deficiencies.

But as Harvie says, transit infrastructure that lags behind most of the Lower Mainland is nearly as restrictive to the efficient movement of people around his expansive municipality.

The mayor said he supports trying to "get people out of their cars," but in the Metro Vancouver area south of the Fraser River, it's difficult to do that with the current TransLink services.

...

TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond acknowledges that the region south of the Fraser River has less than its fair share of transit.

"We need to catch up," Desmond says, pointing to the new strategic transit plan for the area, which will see 50 per cent more hours of operation for buses south of the Fraser, as well as new double-deckers.

However, TransLink's biggest constraint is the geographic reality of the municipality — with three different suburban population centres —​ Ladner, Tsawwassen and North Delta — separated by a triangle of agricultural land, creating efficient transit routes is easier said than done.

"Transit always works best, no matter where you are in the world, where you have a large number of people at point of origin demanding the service, and either a single major point of destination or a series of major centres that are generating a lot of activity," said Desmond.

...

[MIPS]

However, TransLink's biggest constraint is the geographic reality of the municipality — with three different suburban population centres —​ Ladner, Tsawwassen and North Delta — separated by a triangle of agricultural land, creating efficient transit routes is easier said than done.

"Transit always works best, no matter where you are in the world, where you have a large number of people at point of origin demanding the service, and either a single major point of destination or a series of major centres that are generating a lot of activity," said Desmond.

Well when you put it that way, why not just a rail loop?
If the bulk of congestion is commuter traffic and the implication is that people WANT to use transit but the service is poor or not fast enough it almost sounds more cost efficient to build commuter rail, especially if the geotechnical conditions of a delta apply.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Well when you put it that way, why not just a rail loop?
If the bulk of congestion is commuter traffic and the implication is that people WANT to use transit but the service is poor or not fast enough it almost sounds more cost efficient to build commuter rail, especially if the geotechnical conditions of a delta apply.

There's a railway in North Delta, but it parallels the existing Hwy 91 and SFPR, so its usefulness vs buses is limited.

I mean, there's no space for HOV on 91 now, but note that the original George Massey Bridge would have resulted in reduced traffic on Alex Fraser, so it would have been possible to implement HOV.

And a commuter rail into South Delta would either be useless (going to North Delta rather than Richmond), or expensive due to the new crossing needed.

There was a proposal to have a new B-line on Scott Rd. Considering it's one of the most used bus corridors in SOF, it's probably the best next step going forwards.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by fredinno

There was a proposal to have a new B-line on Scott Rd. Considering it's one of the most used bus corridors in SOF, it's probably the best next step going forwards.

The plan is to create 10 new B-Line routes. The ones for this year are:

• Lougheed Highway – Coquitlam Central Station to Haney Place
• Main-Marine – Dundarave to Phibbs Exchange
• 41st Avenue – Joyce Collingwood Station to UBC
• Fraser Highway – Surrey Central Station to Langley Centre (now dropped down to LRT being killed in favour of Skytrain)

The remaining ones are:

• Lions Gate B-Line: From downtown Vancouver to Lynn Valley via the Lions Gate Bridge
• Victoria Drive B-Line: From downtown Vancouver to Marine Drive via Hastings Street and Victoria Drive
• Ironworkers-Willingdon B-Line: From Phibbs Exchange in North Vancouver to Brentwood Station and Metrotown Station via Willingdon Avenue
• Richmond-Metrotown B-Line: From Metrotown Station in Burnaby to Bridgeport Station
• 120 Street-White Rock B-Line: From Scott Road Station in Surrey to Newton Exchange in Surrey via 120 Street, then to White Rock (the WR section could be changed due to LRT being killed)
• Coquitlam-Langley B-Line: From Coquitlam Central Station to Langley Centre via the Pitt River Bridge and the Golden Ears Bridge

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by fredinno

There's a railway in North Delta, but it parallels the existing Hwy 91 and SFPR, so its usefulness vs buses is limited.

I mean, there's no space for HOV on 91 now, but note that the original George Massey Bridge would have resulted in reduced traffic on Alex Fraser, so it would have been possible to implement HOV.

And a commuter rail into South Delta would either be useless (going to North Delta rather than Richmond), or expensive due to the new crossing needed.

There was a proposal to have a new B-line on Scott Rd. Considering it's one of the most used bus corridors in SOF, it's probably the best next step going forwards.

I was implying a new dedicated line so that train scheduling was not restricted by commercial rail traffic, such as the West Coast Express is. There isn't much point running the SkyTrain out there as the density is still too low and rationally most of the land is unsuitable for much beyond farmland and low density housing anyways so you may as well float a new rail bed. I guess this does touch on LRT but still, if the commute can supposedly be thinned out by a rail link to Expo/Canada Line routes at a cost lower than highway widening/a replacement river crossing it should be seriously considered.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by MIPS

I was implying a new dedicated line so that train scheduling was not restricted by commercial rail traffic, ...

Go Transit in Toronto laid some on its own track parallel to freight tracks.
Not sure how much of their system is on their own tracks.

[Tetsuo]

The SRY tracks (former BCER) have a provision to allow the government to run commuter rail on them, but it's a weird route, probably not practical for time/ridership.

I'm not sure how often the freight trains run on them, but I can count the number of times I've been delayed by them on my hands over the past decade, it's not as busy as the other freight tracks.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The plan is to create 10 new B-Line routes. The ones for this year are:

• Lougheed Highway – Coquitlam Central Station to Haney Place
• Main-Marine – Dundarave to Phibbs Exchange
• 41st Avenue – Joyce Collingwood Station to UBC
• Fraser Highway – Surrey Central Station to Langley Centre (now dropped down to LRT being killed in favour of Skytrain)

The remaining ones are:

• Lions Gate B-Line: From downtown Vancouver to Lynn Valley via the Lions Gate Bridge
• Victoria Drive B-Line: From downtown Vancouver to Marine Drive via Hastings Street and Victoria Drive
• Ironworkers-Willingdon B-Line: From Phibbs Exchange in North Vancouver to Brentwood Station and Metrotown Station via Willingdon Avenue
• Richmond-Metrotown B-Line: From Metrotown Station in Burnaby to Bridgeport Station
• 120 Street-White Rock B-Line: From Scott Road Station in Surrey to Newton Exchange in Surrey via 120 Street, then to White Rock (the WR section could be changed due to LRT being killed)
• Coquitlam-Langley B-Line: From Coquitlam Central Station to Langley Centre via the Pitt River Bridge and the Golden Ears Bridge

Lions Gate B-Line: Is that supposed to take out the 240 and supplement 228?

Iron Worker - Willingdon B-Line: I wanna welcome it, but I can’t, knowing what a choke point that bridge is gonna be. If it’s true that people crossing that bridge need to drive with big tools, it’s kinda unrealistic for them to carry those onto a bus.

Richmond - Metrotown B-Line: I find it debatable because the Bridgeport Road corridor isn’t even that dense from my impression (although ridership on Knight Street and 49th Avenue <Imperial Drive> would definitely make up for it).

Scott Road - White Rock B-Line: I thought the intention was to have 96 continue down to White Rock and to have something else for the current 319?

Coquitlam Central - Langley Centre B-Line: I’m sorry but this really sounds like the ultimate pipe dream. Even if you go down 208th Street, the ridership generated at Willoughby still won’t be high enough. Moreover, it duplicates with the Ridge Meadow B-Line. I think the best solution is to make 555 more reliable by either having a heavy police presence on the bridge or reserving the HOV for buses only during rush hour.

[rpvan]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Extensive public transit: the missing piece in Delta's ambitions

They could do with a B Line running thru North Delta on Scott Road. The 319 already is very frequent and is usually pretty packed even in non peak hours.

Extending the Canada Line south to Ladner and Tsawwassen would also greatly alleviate Delta's traffic issues.

[rpvan]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The plan is to create 10 new B-Line routes. The ones for this year are:

• Lougheed Highway – Coquitlam Central Station to Haney Place
• Main-Marine – Dundarave to Phibbs Exchange
• 41st Avenue – Joyce Collingwood Station to UBC
• Fraser Highway – Surrey Central Station to Langley Centre (now dropped down to LRT being killed in favour of Skytrain)

The remaining ones are:

• Lions Gate B-Line: From downtown Vancouver to Lynn Valley via the Lions Gate Bridge
• Victoria Drive B-Line: From downtown Vancouver to Marine Drive via Hastings Street and Victoria Drive
• Ironworkers-Willingdon B-Line: From Phibbs Exchange in North Vancouver to Brentwood Station and Metrotown Station via Willingdon Avenue
• Richmond-Metrotown B-Line: From Metrotown Station in Burnaby to Bridgeport Station
• 120 Street-White Rock B-Line: From Scott Road Station in Surrey to Newton Exchange in Surrey via 120 Street, then to White Rock (the WR section could be changed due to LRT being killed)
• Coquitlam-Langley B-Line: From Coquitlam Central Station to Langley Centre via the Pitt River Bridge and the Golden Ears Bridge

An addition of a 49th Ave B line would help as well. Across the region, it is the fourth most used bus route and the most overcrowded route after the 99.

[Aroundtheworld]

There needs to be a better way of tying transit investments to developments. I think areas that lack transit should get better transit, but it should be accompanied with promises that the land use will be upgraded so that the investments will be worthwhile.

Translink could create some kind of transit upgrade proposal ranking system. Proposed upgrades would move up in the rankings if a municipality did things like:

• Create a new community plan along the corridor
• Rezone properties along the corridor
• Upgrade traffic signalling along the corridor
• Add diamond lanes along the corridor
• Contribute financially to the new service

This way municipalities would have an incentive to actually build their cities around transit instead of complaining that it should 'their turn'. It could also speed up the rate of transit improvements.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The plan is to create 10 new B-Line routes. The ones for this year are:

• Lougheed Highway – Coquitlam Central Station to Haney Place
• Main-Marine – Dundarave to Phibbs Exchange
• 41st Avenue – Joyce Collingwood Station to UBC
• Fraser Highway – Surrey Central Station to Langley Centre (now dropped down to LRT being killed in favour of Skytrain)

The remaining ones are:

• Lions Gate B-Line: From downtown Vancouver to Lynn Valley via the Lions Gate Bridge
• Victoria Drive B-Line: From downtown Vancouver to Marine Drive via Hastings Street and Victoria Drive
• Ironworkers-Willingdon B-Line: From Phibbs Exchange in North Vancouver to Brentwood Station and Metrotown Station via Willingdon Avenue
• Richmond-Metrotown B-Line: From Metrotown Station in Burnaby to Bridgeport Station
• 120 Street-White Rock B-Line: From Scott Road Station in Surrey to Newton Exchange in Surrey via 120 Street, then to White Rock (the WR section could be changed due to LRT being killed)
• Coquitlam-Langley B-Line: From Coquitlam Central Station to Langley Centre via the Pitt River Bridge and the Golden Ears Bridge

You just listed the Scott Rd. Station B-line- the 120st. B-line.

Originally Posted by MIPS

I was implying a new dedicated line so that train scheduling was not restricted by commercial rail traffic, such as the West Coast Express is. There isn't much point running the SkyTrain out there as the density is still too low and rationally most of the land is unsuitable for much beyond farmland and low density housing anyways so you may as well float a new rail bed. I guess this does touch on LRT but still, if the commute can supposedly be thinned out by a rail link to Expo/Canada Line routes at a cost lower than highway widening/a replacement river crossing it should be seriously considered.

Where would you put it? There's no space except paralleling SFPR and 91 in North Delta, and South Delta has the problem of only allowing for Surrey-Delta transfers due to the expensive cost of building a new rail crossing on the Fraser.

Since the GMB project was supposed to have HOV, it just seems way more convenient and cheaper to implement bus services. At least until road demand starts to overcrowd the upgraded GMB and AFB again, which wasn't going to happen for quite a while under the Liberals' plan due to how much the tolls would have cut usage (potentially never, if transit improvements can outpace growth.)

Considering the speed limit is 100km/h on the 99, I honestly feel the needle points more towards buses, not rail.

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

The SRY tracks (former BCER) have a provision to allow the government to run commuter rail on them, but it's a weird route, probably not practical for time/ridership.

I'm not sure how often the freight trains run on them, but I can count the number of times I've been delayed by them on my hands over the past decade, it's not as busy as the other freight tracks.

The SRY route goes through Cloverdale T. Centre, Langley T. Centre, Newton T. Centre, and Scott Rd (densification area north of Surrey T. Centre). None of the alternatives are great. The CN route goes through Fort Langley, Walnut Grove/Port Kells Industrial Park, and Port Mann, and the BNSF route to the south outlines the outskirts North Delta. Both duplicate existing expressways, which isn't great for the reasons I stated earlier.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Lions Gate B-Line: Is that supposed to take out the 240 and supplement 228?

Iron Worker - Willingdon B-Line: I wanna welcome it, but I can’t, knowing what a choke point that bridge is gonna be. If it’s true that people crossing that bridge need to drive with big tools, it’s kinda unrealistic for them to carry those onto a bus.

Richmond - Metrotown B-Line: I find it debatable because the Bridgeport Road corridor isn’t even that dense from my impression (although ridership on Knight Street and 49th Avenue <Imperial Drive> would definitely make up for it).

Scott Road - White Rock B-Line: I thought the intention was to have 96 continue down to White Rock and to have something else for the current 319?

Coquitlam Central - Langley Centre B-Line: I’m sorry but this really sounds like the ultimate pipe dream. Even if you go down 208th Street, the ridership generated at Willoughby still won’t be high enough. Moreover, it duplicates with the Ridge Meadow B-Line. I think the best solution is to make 555 more reliable by either having a heavy police presence on the bridge or reserving the HOV for buses only during rush hour.

This plan was made before the cancellation of the L-line LRT.

Langley wants to build a 'transit oriented community' at Carvloth, relying on the Carvloth Exchange, as its transit anchor and centre. It's a speculative line that pretty much relies on the continued densification of Willoughby into medium density. That's been the current trajectory for the last decade though, more or less (SFH developments are pretty rare there nowadays), so even though it's speculative now, it'd really become useful down the line, perhaps in another decade.
https://sfb.nathanpachal.com/2013/11/the-carvolth-neighbourhood-plan.html

Plus, it's a opportunity to experiment with building transit into a greenfield community from the get-go.

Originally Posted by rpvan

An addition of a 49th Ave B line would help as well. Across the region, it is the fourth most used bus route and the most overcrowded route after the 99.

It is pretty close to the 41st Ave. B-line, so it's probably best to wait until those numbers come in to contemplate a 49th Ave B-Line.

[CanSpice]

The bus exchange at 22nd Street SkyTrain Station is being upgraded:

Planned upgrades include:

Enhanced lighting to improve safety
A widened waiting area and additional seating to reduce crowding and make it easier to transfer between bus and SkyTrain
New bus shelters for all passenger loading bays to improve customer safety and comfort
Colourful public art with 22 graphic icons of phytoplankton found near the exchange, that boosts the spirit and vibrancy of the area

One thing that isn't mentioned is they're planning on installing a fast-charge station for their all-electric buses that are going to be doing the 100 route between 22nd Street and Marpole.