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Originally Posted by OCCheetos
Well in my opinion I think MOOSE should really be using vehicles similar to what the Trillium Line uses (the FLIRT is ideal, and if they really insist on double deckers then the KISS is just the FLIRT's big brother) and I think that ignoring the fact that MOOSE has stated their interest in using DMU's is a bit disingenuous, but anyway
That is something I would like to know the answer to as well.
In terms of capital MOOSE has said that they would put that up for any upgrades necessary, but I have no idea how MOOSE is thinking of scheduling all of that construction work.
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I wasn't intentionally ignoring that Moose stated an interest in using DMUs. What they use is just less important than the fact that mixing traffic on the Trillium corridor is going to severely stunt LRT operations, unless serious amounts of money are spent on the corridor (beyond what is already planned for a modernized Triliium line). The Moose and the O-Train are fundamentally different services so mixing the operation needs is going to require additional tracks and highly advanced signalling and management systems.
And that is if there are even trains that could meet the requirement of being able to mix with lighter LRT vehicles, and heavier VIA rail and freight traffic. Mixing traffic is one thing in low volume situations. But during morning and evening rush hours, when both Moose and OC Transpo are operating a maximum of vehicles, is going to require a very advanced corridor (be that in expensive signalling tech, 3 or 4 sets of rails and tunnels, or a mix of both).
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCCheetos
I wouldn't say I'm "all for" this project. I have plenty of questions I'd like to see answered too, but I think it's worth something to actually have something to discuss instead of just continuously tacking on the number of posts on why people don't like the proposal.
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I agree that it is worth discussing. I was initially excited by the project when it was first announced, 7 years ago. But after all that time, the general lack of public support and enthusiasm, lack of investors, and the changing nature of the plan, it is hard to see it as anything less than vapourware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCCheetos
Washouts are a little more than basic maintenance. Irregardless the steam train apparently brought in a few millions of dollars of tourism revenue to the area. That's not bad for some small towns.
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As someone else here said, the line did operate for many, many decades, before it was shuttered, after the washout. When a line is generating enough revenue, there is going to be more money and time put in to maintaining it. Not that it necessarily would have prevented the washout from happening. But much better, regular maintenance would have mitigated how bad it was, or maybe lead to a proactive solution.
And I am by no means taking away the value the steam train added to Wakefield. I am actually disappointed I never had a chance to ride it. And maybe sometime in the future, some sort of modern tourist train service could return to Wakefield (it is probably the only area in the region that could support it). But a small operation, which the steam train was, would not have the funds to do the kind of regular maintenance that was needed to keep the line operational for a longer period of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCCheetos
Not that it really means much today, but shortline freight was still a reasonably sustainable industry in this area just over 10 years ago. The Ottawa Central Railway served quite a number of customers throughout the Ottawa valley and even in places like the Industrial Park by the 417 (which I don't think is served at all anymore). Then the recession happened and I would assume wiped out all of those customers and at its low point the OCR was purchased by CN (more on that later).
I'm not sure if you are aware, but there was a legitimate effort (that was even publicly supported by some City Councillors) to save the Beachburg sub before it was torn up by CN.
A group called "Transport Pontiac-Renfrew" made up of the municipalities of Renfrew and Pontiac made an effort to preserve the tracks to use for commuter rail as well as in the hopes of attracting new industry to the area. The group received a $136,000 grant from the federal government to perform a feasibility study but before it could be completed the tracks were torn up (the abandonment process was performed well before TPR was in a position to negotiate a purchase).
The primary reason that CN tore up the line (aside from low business) was because of the high salvage value of the welded rails used on the line. They could (and were) cut up into long pieces and shipped to be used elsewhere.
(Extra info: CN apparently put a price of $21.7 million on the Beachburg Sub)
Now I said I would get back to the OCR situation and I will, but this next part is entirely conjecture. It's been theorized that the reason why CN purchased the OCR and reacquired the Beachburg Sub was simply for the salvage value of those welded rails (they are very valuable after all). Your assessment earlier that CN is not in the shortline business is entirely accurate, they really aren't, but that doesn't mean that the shortline business is non-existent, and I don't mean out in the prairies.
Like I mentioned a number of posts ago, it's still entirely possible that a shortline will step in and buy the tracks that CN is currently intending to abandon. Perhaps the ANR will have something to do with it, maybe the QGRY or another Genesse and Wyoming subsidiary. It'll also be interesting to see what comes up in the near future about shortlines in relation to what CN is abandoning.
Speaking of QGRY, that also exists and seems to be doing alright on the other side of the river.
Rail in the NCR obviously isn't what it was 50 years ago, and the recession 10 years ago really didn't help either, but I think it could be a fair argument to say that local governments (or higher levels of government) aren't doing enough to, at the very least, support the remaining industries in the area let alone trying to perhaps preserve some of these corridors for future transit use (heavy rail or otherwise). |
To this I have a lot to say, and it is a fascinating topic that doesn't get a lot of attention. I will come back to this in more detail later. But for now I will just say that the economics of short/branch lines only works if you have a sufficient number of customers along them to make operations worthwhile. A government could come in and buy the line, just to keep it alive, but unless rail is the cheapest way to move freight, customers are not going to use it. You would not only have to buy the line, but also subsidize the cost of moving freight by rail to attract customers back. And even then, rail is typically slower than truck freight, so if on-time delivery or shipping matters, it wont matter how cheap rail freight is.
I am also not saying that a government, or public agency, shouldn't investigate buying some of these lines. Some do, or will, have value. But, it requires that more people view rail lines as a public good, rather than private property, and in the NCR it requires a very serious rethink of what rail will mean to the region in the future.
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