San Francisco Is Suffering From The Excesses Of Its Own Liberalism

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

meh. as a super-white citizen of hyper-segregated chicago, my perspective would be more along the lines of "many (or most (or the VAST majority of)) white people are scared of black neighborhoods".

I would expand on this and say that: people of all races are scared of scary neighborhoods with 3rd world crime rates, therefore they avoid those areas and don't patronize the businesses in those crime ridden areas.

This is true for all cities, around the world.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

I would expand on this and say that: people of all races are scared of scary neighborhoods with 3rd world crime rates, therefore they avoid those areas and don't patronize the businesses in those crime ridden areas.

This is true for all cities, around the world.

See, the common denominator here is CRIME.

Unchecked crime is what scares people away, not necessarily poor conditions.

I was just in Pakistan 2 months ago and was floored by how, even in areas that are drastically poorer than comparable places in the US (about 124 Pakistani Rupees to the US Dollar at that time), there is new construction everywhere. 2-3, perhaps 4 level, masonry commercial buildings going up to support small rows of family owned shops. Everywhere.

This level of construction everywhere would be wonderful to see in, say, parts of the south side of Chicago. But it ain't happening, and I'm betting it's due to uncontrolled crime and gangs.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Yeah, I was thinking that too. The majority American culture is like an accent. The rest of the English speaking countries think there is an American accent but Americans don’t—they think the others have the accent. We have a culture of our own which to us seems the absence of a culture but the rest of the world recognizes as very definitely a distinct one.

And it is a successful one. It has accomplished arguably more than any other for over 200 years. And in America, people tend to be more comfortable and successful the better they adapt and the more they can participate in that culture. I believe that alternative cultures that insist on and assert their differentness limit the success and contentment in America of the people who adhere to them.

I couldn't agree more with this post.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

I would expand on this and say that: people of all races are scared of scary neighborhoods with 3rd world crime rates, therefore they avoid those areas and don't patronize the businesses in those crime ridden areas.

sure, crime scares everyone to varying degrees, but there's more to it than just that in the white/black dyanmic in the US.

take a bog standard white american and place them in a predominately black neighborhood that isn't high crime, they're still most likely gonna feel on edge.

generally speaking, white people in this country aren't comfortable being in the minority, but that's 1,000x more true when it's in relation to being in the minority to a lot of black people.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

See, the common denominator here is CRIME.

Unchecked crime is what scares people away, not necessarily poor conditions.

I was just in Pakistan 2 months ago and was floored by how, even in areas that are drastically poorer than comparable places in the US (about 124 Pakistani Rupees to the US Dollar at that time), there is new construction everywhere. 2-3, perhaps 4 level, masonry commercial buildings going up to support small rows of family owned shops. Everywhere.

This level of construction everywhere would be wonderful to see in, say, parts of the south side of Chicago. But it ain't happening, and I'm betting it's due to uncontrolled crime and gangs.

I agree with this post too.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Yeah, I was thinking that too. The majority American culture is like an accent. The rest of the English speaking countries think there is an American accent but Americans don’t—they think the others have the accent. We have a culture of our own which to us seems the absence of a culture but the rest of the world recognizes as very definitely a distinct one.

And it is a successful one. It has accomplished arguably more than any other for over 200 years. And in America, people tend to be more comfortable and successful the better they adapt and the more they can participate in that culture. I believe that alternative cultures that insist on and assert their differentness limit the success and contentment in America of the people who adhere to them.

Some of those cultures had to be different in order to survive in America. Since we obviously know you're talking about blacks, they created a parallel culture because for much of America's history, white people didn't allow blacks to partipate in their culture so they created their own. Obviously, black American culture mixed in parts of white American culture into their own(it's hard to escape the dominant culture around you without letting it influence you).

[L41A]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Before you say this, bare in mind that the "black identity" people, like Segun (no offense), often present themselves as speaking for all minorities, but nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, they pretty much only speak for African Americans, which are a distinct group that have a different "approach", shall we speak, to white-minority relations, compared to everyone else.

Segun actually stated the opposite. He stated he didn't speak for all people - even all Black people.

I also don't agree that "black identity" people (whatever that means but I will suppose) don't present themselves as speaking for all 'minorities'. I think we speak more often specifically for those of the African descent who have been in America generations upon generations and since the establishment of America.

I do think we are more outspoken SOMETIMES about issues they may affect other 'minorities' more directly than it affect ourselves. But that probably stems from our Americanism more than anything else. Americans in general are probably more outspoken and expressive than most.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Yeah, I was thinking that too. The majority American culture is like an accent. The rest of the English speaking countries think there is an American accent but Americans don’t—they think the others have the accent. We have a culture of our own which to us seems the absence of a culture but the rest of the world recognizes as very definitely a distinct one.

And it is a successful one. It has accomplished arguably more than any other for over 200 years. And in America, people tend to be more comfortable and successful the better they adapt and the more they can participate in that culture. I believe that alternative cultures that insist on and assert their differentness limit the success and contentment in America of the people who adhere to them.

^ I don't really agree that America has a successful "culture" today, in 2019. I actually think America is successful despite its culture.

Success in America is largely due to the hard work of prior generations, and of new immigrants today. Too many Americans today want an easy life, easy access to money, and whine & proclaim victimhood all day long. There is too much graphic — in our culture as well. It's sad--not good.

Fresh new immigrants keep established Americans on their toes. Ethnicities that bring in fresh new cultural ideas and challenge our complacency are much better for the country than the established melting pot "bleh" that we have over here.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ I don't really agree that America has a successful "culture" today, in 2019. I actually think America is successful despite its culture.

Success in America is largely due to the hard work of prior generations, and of new immigrants today. Too many Americans today want an easy life, easy access to money, and whine & proclaim victimhood all day long. There is too much graphic — in our culture as well. It's sad--not good.

Fresh new immigrants keep established Americans on their toes. Ethnicities that bring in fresh new cultural ideas and challenge our complacency are much better for the country than the established melting pot "bleh" that we have over here.

Exactly. Me and my best friend, who is an ardent liberal, were discussing "American Exceptionalism." To him it meant blind patriotism and to claim our culture is better than all others but to me, I said to him, its the fact that we attract the best around the Earth, and have for over 200 years. Native-born Americans have done amazing things, zero doubt about that. However, the mainstream in our culture is of laziness, entertainment, and privilege for things we have not earned. A sense of entitlement basically. Lucky for us, we have laws which allow native and immigrants alike to produce as much as they can with their talents and yes, luck. Its a beautiful thing and our culture, yes culture, allows this amazing progress to happen and continue.

[Segun]

Originally Posted by JoeMusashi

You really can't it both ways. "White culture" is what it is because of the melting pot and assimilation. That is the ideal and demand for minorities paid lip service by their leaders/activists yet in reality what people seem to want is "separate but equal". Multiculturalism is the new ideal of the left and promoted in the media. The last few years has seen a strong push towards identity politics. It is also why things have become so nasty.

The minute white people start drifting into multiculturalism, it is immediately labeled "white supremacy". Everyone else is egged on to celebrate their skin color, vaginas, — orientation, ancestry, etc. That is why you get things like the 2016, a rebuke of the identity politics, hypocrisy, and SJW culture.

The future battle will be multiculturalism vs the melting pot. Multiculturalism is dangerous and is making us more tribal. Textbook divide and conquer tactics.

Nah.

The idea of a "melting pot" is flawed. Would you take 5 different dishes on a platter and melt them together in order to create something "better"?

I suppose some White people want all nonwhite cultures to "melt" into a big pot called "White Culture". That's true White supremacy. The Whiteright or Rightwhite in 2018 likes to act like whiny, know-it-all children, putting on a fake MLK mask in attempts to hide their true intention. I'm still waiting for a White pride movement that doesn't have some racist intention or affiliation.

I'll keep waiting.

Lets compare the definitions of White pride vs Black pride (Via Wikipedia):

White pride:

White pride or — is an expression primarily used by white separatist, white nationalist, neo-Nazi and white supremacist organizations in order to signal racist or racialist viewpoints

Black pride:

Black pride is a movement in response to dominant white cultures and ideologies that encourages black people to celebrate black culture and embrace their African heritage. In the United States, it was a direct response to white racism especially during the Civil Rights Movement.

There's no comparison.

------------------------------------------------------

*I'm predicting some sort of comment along the lines of "Wikipedia is funded by the left, Hillary, Askenazi Jews, MK Ultra, etc......I've heard the rhetoric from your tribe countless times. The angry, proud, White computer nerd who thinks he/she is a revolutionary. Watched too many espionage movies growing up:

"The evil _____ at the top are pitting Blacks, SJW's (or whatever coded acronym you use now), Cucks, Jews, against their own self-interest (which is funny in of itself how non-Black people can know what the best self-interest is for Black people).......You brainwashed sheep! Drones! Obama! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary!"

GTFOH with that jibba jabba Tin Foil Mafia

I certainly don't speak for all Black people, but I'm 100% more qualified to speak for Black people than someone not Black. At least I'd like to think so!

[Segun]

You can always pinpoint the psychological scars of demagoguery based on the terminology one uses. Pay attention to people who use "Blacks, Latinos, Jews, Women" excessively, as almost as if they are observing pawns on some giant cosmic chess game. "Only if Blacks knew what was best for them"

As opposed to people who study demographic trends, who use more descriptive language, who make reference to history and socio-economic factors, and use a combination of inductive and deductive reasoning.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Segun

I'm still waiting for a White pride movement that doesn't have some racist intention or affiliation.

I would pack a very long lunch then. There is no rhyme or reason for whites to ever be 'proud' of being white other than a rebuke of black or other races they perceived as a threat. Whites who are proud of their ethnic heritage will celebrate that heritage; Italian, Irish, German, Polish, etc. Whites who understand the notion of 'black pride' realize blacks had their ethnic heritage stripped from them so black pride is there is to identity with. I totally can respect that.

Don't get me on 'heritage not hate' — with the Confederacy....

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Segun

I certainly don't speak for all Black people, but I'm 100% more qualified to speak for Black people than someone not Black. At least I'd like to think so!

I don't care about my skin color or looks, I just like pretty girls.



I would make children to this one, for instance.

Your whole speech about whatever culture or supremacy is most likely torturing you uselessly.
Once a Fenchman with some Italian background told me about this as an unusual lightning of honesty suddenly stroke him, just like that, out of nowhere:

Truth is that their freaking egos, their whatever — desires, their personal issues and frustrations, thus money are ruling the world.
That's how we've been stuck in hell.

That's what some dude said to me in a brief moment of clear-sightedness, when I still was a child.
I'll never forget that word, cause it makes sense when you really think about it. I guess you just got to think about very basics, then you realize we're all the same, no matter what skin or looks.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Segun

Nah.

The idea of a "melting pot" is flawed. Would you take 5 different dishes on a platter and melt them together in order to create something "better"?

I suppose some White people want all nonwhite cultures to "melt" into a big pot called "White Culture". That's true White supremacy. The Whiteright or Rightwhite in 2018 likes to act like whiny, know-it-all children, putting on a fake MLK mask in attempts to hide their true intention. I'm still waiting for a White pride movement that doesn't have some racist intention or affiliation.

I'll keep waiting.

Lets compare the definitions of White pride vs Black pride (Via Wikipedia):

White pride:

White pride or — is an expression primarily used by white separatist, white nationalist, neo-Nazi and white supremacist organizations in order to signal racist or racialist viewpoints

Black pride:

Black pride is a movement in response to dominant white cultures and ideologies that encourages black people to celebrate black culture and embrace their African heritage. In the United States, it was a direct response to white racism especially during the Civil Rights Movement.

There's no comparison.

------------------------------------------------------

*I'm predicting some sort of comment along the lines of "Wikipedia is funded by the left, Hillary, Askenazi Jews, MK Ultra, etc......I've heard the rhetoric from your tribe countless times. The angry, proud, White computer nerd who thinks he/she is a revolutionary. Watched too many espionage movies growing up:

"The evil _____ at the top are pitting Blacks, SJW's (or whatever coded acronym you use now), Cucks, Jews, against their own self-interest (which is funny in of itself how non-Black people can know what the best self-interest is for Black people).......You brainwashed sheep! Drones! Obama! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary!"

GTFOH with that jibba jabba Tin Foil Mafia

I certainly don't speak for all Black people, but I'm 100% more qualified to speak for Black people than someone not Black. At least I'd like to think so!

What you don't realize is that mainstream American Culture is Black Culture too... Its not like black Americans, many who have been here longer than most whites, are some foreigners in a distant land. The longer you pretend to be African or something the more pissed you'll always be. You'll never be happy. This country will never be your mecca, but if you open your damn eyes, stop the constant negativity, you'll see American Culture is black and white.

Whenever I traveled overseas with the Navy, my black friends usually felt more out of place than my white friends, funny enough. They missed everything about the USA as the white people did. They wanted their familiar food, streets, and language. Black people are as American as apple pie...or whatever the saying might be. The sooner everyone realizes this(black separatist and white separatist alike) the better we will all be.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by mousquet

I'll never forget that word, cause it makes sense when you really think about it. I guess you just got to think about very basics, then you realize we're all the same, no matter what skin or looks.

Its 2019. It is now racist to say we are all the same. Color blindness is racist. Get with the times!

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Its 2019. It is now racist to say we are all the same. Color blindness is racist. Get with the times!

No one is color blind. That's the reality.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

No one is color blind. That's the reality.

True. But thats like saying "I don't judge people." Well, of course, we all do. Otherwise, we would be hanging out with gangbangers and druggies while our kids hang out with their kids.

We see race, for sure. We make split-second decisions based on someone's looks, and race is usually the fastest one to decipher.

But, human instincts aside, we can live in a relatively color-blind society. Hell, minus forums like this and the media, most people live their lives in very color-blind ways, I know I do.

[Segun]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Your whole speech about whatever culture or supremacy is most likely torturing you uselessly.

Shiiiiieeeeet, uselessly tortured is a perfect description for the nonreaction us Black folk have to give to every microaggression and outright aggression we face here in Murica.


.....but my anger gives me power and immunity to bulls**t at the same time. When you're at the very bottom of the totem, you've seen it all.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

What you don't realize is that mainstream American Culture is Black Culture too... Its not like black Americans, many who have been here longer than most whites, are some foreigners in a distant land. The longer you pretend to be African or something the more pissed you'll always be. You'll never be happy. This country will never be your mecca, but if you open your damn eyes, stop the constant negativity, you'll see American Culture is black and white.

Whenever I traveled overseas with the Navy, my black friends usually felt more out of place than my white friends, funny enough. They missed everything about the USA as the white people did. They wanted their familiar food, streets, and language. Black people are as American as apple pie...or whatever the saying might be. The sooner everyone realizes this(black separatist and white separatist alike) the better we will all be.

Yep. I've been hearing this stuff from African American cultural folks all of my life, and I find it remarkable just how unaware they are of just how AMERICAN they are. They really have little in common with Africans from Africa. They are basically white people, with a few cultural differences and a hell of a lot of animosity against greater white society.

[Sun Belt]

This thread is veering wayyy off topic.

To get back on topic: Blacks represent just 12.6%* of the overall population of the United States. San Francisco/Bay Area, which is on the complete opposite side of the historical black population centers of the Southeastern U.S. and East Coast is similar to other west coast city peers in regards to it's black population. For example: the Pacific Northwest doesn't have a significantly large black population because of the historical context, not because it's some racist, backward thinking place.


*12.6% and growing.
Years 1940 1950 1960 1970 1980 1990 2000* 2010*
White 89.8 89.5 88.6 87.5 83.0 80.3 75.1 72.4
Black 9.8 10.0 10.5 11.1 11.7 12.1 12.3 12.6