Atlanta Project Thread IV - Page 180

bigstick · #**3581** Posted **Jan 9, 2019, 11:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Username123

Well, it is a development forum. Besides, you’ll be criticizing the speed that it’s built once construction starts.

If it ever gets off the ground,, a question I asked with no response, as to when this will happen?...

BlueSangha · #**3582** Posted **Jan 9, 2019, 3:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigstick

If it ever gets off the ground,, a question I asked with no response, as to when this will happen?...

Midtown.com has it listed as under construction, but I don’t think that’s the case and I don’t recall hearing it’s status in the permitting process, so it remains an open question.

pica · #**3583** Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 10:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigstick

DAMN< so many armchair critics on here, really???

Anyone who doesn't like it should just remember how bad it was before the city planning department got involved to try to improve it.

Sura · #**3584** Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 10:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pica

Anyone who doesn't like it should just remember how bad it was before the city planning department got involved to try to improve it.

Jee-fudging-bus. I forgot how bad that was.

Atlriser · #**3585** Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 10:49 PM**

And also remember the developer didn’t have to do anything. They volunteered to make changes. If people get to pushy developers can just say no screw you and build the initial development which is to requirements as is. The changes agreed to are not required by law so be careful with demands or you’ll get nothing. Kinda like the federal jackass right now.

MARTAisSmarta · #**3586** Posted **Jan 11, 2019, 2:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlriser

And also remember the developer didn’t have to do anything. They volunteered to make changes. If people get to pushy developers can just say no screw you and build the initial development which is to requirements as is. The changes agreed to are not required by law so be careful with demands or you’ll get nothing.

I will leave your unnecessary political drivel off, but they have to get approval for permits still. So if the city wasn't just a rubber stamp for bribes, we actually could have a what demands we want.

Maybe we need to turn to our "leaders" which are approving some of these horrendous buildings, and look to replace them.

Atlriser · #**3587** Posted **Jan 11, 2019, 3:28 PM**

You make my point for me. The building meets requirements in the initial iteration. They could have gotten permits to begin. They were willing to talk and make changes but they were not required by law. I am glad for the changes. Just because you like or dislike something does not mean it is law or a requirement. This developer was willing, but the next can just as easily say the code was met. Now, give me my permit and they would be legally bound to do so.

I am not arguing for or against. I am just stating facts of the case. I agree the revision is much more pleasing to “my” eye. Each person has a different preference. Permitting isn’t based on preferences.

Sura · #**3588** Posted **Jan 11, 2019, 4:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlriser

You make my point for me. The building meets requirements in the initial iteration. They could have gotten permits to begin. They were willing to talk and make changes but they were not required by law. I am glad for the changes. Just because you like or dislike something does not mean it is law or a requirement. This developer was willing, but the next can just as easily say the code was met. Now, give me my permit and they would be legally bound to do so.

I am not arguing for or against. I am just stating facts of the case. I agree the revision is much more pleasing to “my” eye. Each person has a different preference. Permitting isn’t based on preferences.

Tim Keane is starting to do just that though. Luckily, developers are listening.

https://saportareport.com/tim-keane-to-atlanta-no-more-ugly-buildings-focus-on-quality-design/

Street Advocate · #**3589** Posted **Jan 11, 2019, 6:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sura

Tim Keane is starting to do just that though. Luckily, developers are listening.

https://saportareport.com/tim-keane-to-atlanta-no-more-ugly-buildings-focus-on-quality-design/

He also hired a handful of new planners for his department, which should help.

Atlriser · #**3590** Posted **Jan 11, 2019, 11:53 PM**

Y’all are missing the point. The actual requirements for aesthetics would have to be written and codified into law before they could actually deny a permit for aesthetics. That will never happen period. Wish all you want but not going to happen and a permit can’t be denied unless the actual codes are changed for what you are referencing and referring too. I’m not trying to argue either side just stating the facts guys. All the planners in the world do not matter regarding aestethics.

Libertarian · #**3591** Posted **Jan 12, 2019, 1:49 AM**

Put the developers, blog critics, and permit staff together in a room, pass around a some joints and each take a few hits and it all will work out.

Street Advocate · #**3592** Posted **Jan 12, 2019, 3:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertarian

Put the developers, blog critics, and permit staff together in a room, pass around a some joints and each take a few hits and it all will work out.

Sounds like Lib had a good night!!

montydawg · #**3593** Posted **Jan 12, 2019, 5:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlriser

Y’all are missing the point. The actual requirements for aesthetics would have to be written and codified into law before they could actually deny a permit for aesthetics.

In order to write something into law, you have to quantify those regulations. For example, the minimum and maximum parking spots are written into law. How do you regulate good design? It seems that is an objective thing. Do you outlaw certain materials? Do you give community groups more power to deny projects? I'm just curious how you would achieve what you are suggesting.

Atlriser · #**3594** Posted **Jan 12, 2019, 5:24 PM**

Amen. I’m pointing those issues out. I feel it cannot nor should be done. Considering Atlanta doesn’t have a distinct architectural style it would be impossible. You were more eloquent and expressive in your argument that I failed in making apparently. Everyone gets confrontational over aesthetics, but those issues are subjective to each individual and not quantifiable. Planners have no legal means to deny permits if a building meets requirements such as this hotel. The original would have to have been allowed if the developer told the city they were not willing to make changes.

I served on the Grant Park zoning and review board several years ago. I quit because people always wanted to argue about paint colors and window shapes instead of focusing on what we had the authority to review and comment. I watched a young married couple expecting their first child come before the committee wanting to build a very nice home that completely met requirements. They were sinking all they had into building that home. The young wife ended up having to leave in tears so upset because about 2/3’s of the committee wanted to tell her what color to paint her house and style fence that would “fit the neighborhood appropriately”. That was want happens when you try to address aesthetics. It was complete crap and so sad to watch. The couple ended up selling the lot instead of building a nice 3000 SFt home. When I spoke to them once the house passed committee, they said it was ridiculous the way they were made to feel and they didn’t want neighbors that opinionated and confrontational. I agreed completely and it was not even under our purview. That is exactly why it is impossible to determine aesthetics and can’t be codified into law in a city like Atlanta.

Street Advocate · #**3595** Posted **Jan 12, 2019, 5:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by montydawg

In order to write something into law, you have to quantify those regulations. For example, the minimum and maximum parking spots are written into law. How do you regulate good design? It seems that is an objective thing. Do you outlaw certain materials? Do you give community groups more power to deny projects? I'm just curious how you would achieve what you are suggesting.

Some cities such as Chicago projects must be approved by elected neighborhood representatives. In Midtown and O4W Atlanta for example Councilman Amir would have to approve said design before the project construction could commence. Gives the neighborhood a say and encourages the developers to bring their A-game. Council members won’t approve just for the sake of something new- the project has to be worthwhile

Atlriser · #**3596** Posted **Jan 12, 2019, 5:42 PM**

Once again to subjective... what is “worthwhile”? Completely arbitrary and ridiculous. People mention bribes now! What do you think that sounds like honestly? Your suggestion leads to many more opportunities for under the table deals and secret agreements which is also standard in Chicago politics in the past.

Street Advocate · #**3597** Posted **Jan 12, 2019, 6:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlriser

Once again to subjective... what is “worthwhile”? Completely arbitrary and ridiculous. People mention bribes now! What do you think that sounds like honestly? Your suggestion leads to many more opportunities for under the table deals and secret agreements which is also standard in Chicago politics in the past.

There are well established design standards and practices throughout the world. Just because you cannot envision a system that works doesn’t mean it isn’t happening, is not appropriate, or shouldn’t happen in Atlanta. To be frank you need to educate yourself on the topic, because it’s honestly what is appropriate for and most likely about to be implemented in Atlanta whether you like it or not.

Atlriser · #**3598** Posted **Jan 12, 2019, 7:18 PM**

I appreciate your opinion. Since you have no idea my education or even what my opinion is, maybe you need to withhold your own opinion about me as well.

Street Advocate · #**3599** Posted **Jan 12, 2019, 9:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlriser

I appreciate your opinion. Since you have no idea my education or even what my opinion is, maybe you need to withhold your own opinion about me as well.

Edit: sorry if I’m coming off as a prick. This forum is more manageable than city data but the amount of crap information spewing from people’s fingertips that they allude as fact while it is nowhere close to it and add in the overall lack of new content is nauseating.

Then add something constructive to provide a solution instead of saying “it won’t work”. All you’re doing otherwise is providing misleading fallacies that encourage stagnation and honestly regression instead of progress.

And by educate yourself I mean grow in familiarity with this topic. I’m not doubting your intellect.

Chris Creech · #**3600** Posted **Jan 13, 2019, 6:28 AM**

640 Peachtree, Actually I'm reminded how appropriate that Art Deco touch is on the corner entrance, and wonder if that might be a nod to the history of that site. In the 40s they built a Franklin Simons Department Store there, which was a really upscale women's wear store out of New York. When I first came to Atlanta in the late 70s the building was still there but had been empty a couple of years. There was talk of trying to restore it off and on till they finally demolished it for the parking lot. It was really a pretty sweet building, very fine quality materials in sort of a streamline deco style. It was a beautiful building. Here's the only pic I could find, but it really doesn't do it justice. http://digitalcollections.library.gsu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/ajc/id/9675