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  #61  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 8:41 PM
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
I don't know about that.
Well I do. LA was headed toward economic domination over SF until 1970---then the 2 areas headed in very different directions as far as momentum and focus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Los Angeles Times
Why San Francisco's way of doing business beat Los Angeles'

By MICHAEL STORPER
OCT 23, 2015 | 3:39 PM

For most of the 20th century, Los Angeles was one of America's top economic success stories. From 1910 to 1970, as greater L.A. multiplied its population 21 times, it fostered high-quality growth, zooming up the ranks of income per inhabitant to become America's fourth-ranked metropolitan area. It was at the center of the core technology industries of the moment: movies and aerospace.
Its regional rival was its northern neighbor, San Francisco, where trucking and transportation, communications equipment and corporate and banking headquarters put Bay Area residents even higher on the income scale: No. 1 in 1970.

For decades, though, the differences between No. 1 and No. 4 were minor. California's two big-city regions were a pair of economic miracles.

Not anymore.

Today, the five-county Los Angeles region is ranked 25th on the income scale, while the 10-county Bay Area region remains No. 1. Per capita, workers in the Bay Area make 30% more than those in greater Los Angeles. That's almost as great a difference as divides high-income and middle-income countries.

To succeed in the new economy ... Southern California has to face its mistakes over the last 30 years.

In Los Angeles, the average household income is about $40,000. In the Bay Area, it's $62,000. Both regions have fabulously wealthy people and neighborhoods, and areas and populations of severe poverty. Even after taking into account higher housing costs, those at the bottom of the ladder in San Francisco are, on average, better off, and higher incomes there also mean greater public spending on schools, transportation and healthcare, without higher taxes.

What happened to Southern California?
Put simply, Los Angeles' business class, its movers and shakers, were too conservative, too backward looking in their goals and their style to recognize and nurture what would become the new economy. To the world at large, Southern California seems like the least stodgy of metropolitan areas. But when it came to what counts now — a highly interconnected "ecosystem" of entrepreneurs and investors, technologists and innovators — Los Angeles stumbled.

There are plenty of examples of lost opportunities.

In 1960s and early '70s, L.A.'s high-tech companies made more sophisticated semiconductors than firms in the Bay Area did. Computer Science Corp. in L.A. was the largest software company on the New York Stock Exchange, and the first to be listed. Los Angeles had its share of computer geniuses as well: The first Internet message was sent from Leonard Kleinrock's computer at UCLA in 1969; Kleinrock invented the digital packet switch, one of the keys to the Internet.

How should L.A. spend its $100-million homelessness emergency fund?
But L.A.'s information technology companies — TRW, Rockwell and Lockheed Martin — were content to focus on lucrative but ultimately limited government contracts. Up north, Fairchild, Xerox, Hewlett-Packard and Schockley Semiconductors, which also worked as government contractors, saw the future and branched out into the consumer market. Ultimately, Steve Jobs and Apple would come to symbolize just how revolutionary that shift would be.

The difference in regional consequences are stark. In 1970, IT's share of the economy in greater Los Angeles and in the Bay Area was about the same (in absolute terms it was much bigger in L.A.).

By 2010, IT was four times bigger in the north than in the south.

L.A.'s inability to capitalize on another new industry, biotech, mirrors the IT story in many ways. However, in this instance, the problem was less a matter of being blind to a new market than being blind to a whole new way of doing business.
Again, both regions started with the requisite talent. In 1976, Art Riggs and Keiichi Itakura showed how to synthesize DNA at City of Hope in Duarte. Simultaneously, Stanley Cohen at Stanford and Herbert Boyer at UC San Francisco were working on recombinant DNA, which they patented in 1980.
In L.A., the first big biotech firm, Amgen, was established as the brainchild of a Silicon Valley venture capitalist, Bill Bowes, and a UCLA scientist, Winston Salser. Genentech, established around the same time in the Bay Area, was the creation of Robert A. Swanson, another venture capitalist, and biochemist Boyer.
But Amgen was far away from major universities, in Thousand Oaks, while Genentech, practically next door to UC San Francisco, stayed in easy and casual contact with cutting-edge academic research. Amgen's IPO in 1983 followed the model of pharmaceutical companies. It kept scientists out of management, cloistered in R&D. Genentech, by contrast, put its scientists on the board of directors, and these scientist-managers, over time, would spin one idea after another into new ventures.

Genentech was managed for innovation, Amgen for commercialization. New firm, old firm. Amgen became a giant in the field, but it mostly did well for itself. The connections and networks fostered at Genentech, on the other hand, created a powerhouse biotech cluster in the Bay Area.

Again, the comparisons are stark. By 2010, there were 214 biotech start-ups in the Bay Area versus 55 in greater L.A.; 64 biotech IPOs versus three in greater L.A.; $8 billion in biotech venture capital financing versus $551 million in greater L.A. Compared with the Bay Area, Southern California universities generated just one-sixth the rate of patents with a link to a regional biotech firm.

L.A.'s networking deficits show up in other ways as well. In Northern California, there's a single dominant business leadership group, the 70-year-old Bay Area Council, advocating for the region's economic future. In Southern California, smaller organizations compete with one another, and regionwide strategic efforts — such as Rebuild L.A., organized to respond to the 1992 riots — come and go with little impact. There are three times as many long-term connections — shared board members — among the Bay Area Council and major Northern California corporations as any leadership organization and companies in Southern California.

L.A.'s regional strategies, perhaps not surprisingly, have come up short compared with the Bay Area. In 30 years of economic reports issued by the Southern California Assn. of Governments, there is hardly a mention of new-economy industries and technologies. Yet in similar reports in Northern California, those businesses are the central focus from the 1980s onward.
In general, while the regional leadership in San Francisco concentrated on attracting and supporting new high-cost, high-wage industries, greater L.A. tried to reinvigorate the mainstay of the old economy: manufacturing. Among other things, the city upgraded its port, bolstering the "logistics" industry, and it succeeded in capturing the China shipping trade. But the logistics industry still yields only low- and medium-wage jobs...

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-storper-how-sf-beat-la-20151025-story.html
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  #62  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 8:47 PM
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And trust me, I am a Huge LA booster. I attended school down there, Ive lived there, I own property there, I have a ton of family there and visit at least 10 times a year.

I just happen to have a front row seat to how both regional economies evolved over the past 3 decades.
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  #63  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 9:31 PM
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LA has long-surpassed SF.

Yes, SF is currently performing much better economically and will continue to as long as tech remains strong, but LA is growing too, and the population/influence gap isn't shrinking.

A lot of the income/household wealth differential is simply because Bay Area newcomers are very heavily highly educated H-1B visas/tech newcomers, while LA tends to have more of the Miami/NYC "third world but prosperous in a generation or two" demographic.
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 9:42 PM
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Chicago usurped NY in hot dogs and pizza and never looked back
Lies
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  #65  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 10:01 PM
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Chicago usurped NY in [salads] and [casseroles] and never looked back
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  #66  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 10:02 PM
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LA didn't usurp SF. Tech bros usurped SF. It used to be a truly great city.
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 10:12 PM
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Lies
This is blasphemy! This is madness! - Madness? This is Chicago!!! To anyone esp a NYker talking about hotdogs....

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  #68  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 10:33 PM
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lol.
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 11:00 PM
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The topic is not which city outgrew another, but which city usurped another.

LA certainly outgrew SF several times over as far as size and absolutely is the largest and most visited, but usurp means to take away power and economically I just dont really see that, in fact if anything the Bay Area has wrested control back from LA and today is more economically relevant and influential than LA.
SF has the most robust economy in the country. And FAANG basically rules Wall Street talk. But wealth and great companies aren't going to economically make-up the difference with a region more than twice the population. The GDP of LA is third in the world after Toyko and NYC. Not exactly a small feat despite SF having a more robust economy than LA.

A decade ago I would say that that SF would usurp every city in the country in influence, especially with LA’s entertainment industry seeming to lose its reach, but LA’s entertainment industry adapted very well to the new tech economy especially in the current evolution of the tech era where content is now King.

It doesn’t help that tech is killing culture in SF. Tech has made SF conservative in certain ways which chips aways at it's progressive reach across the country. As hip as tech is, the whole industry is cultureless. They build up their own companies and their own wealth, but they don’t feel duty to contribute to SF’s cultural institutions or add more. So LA’s cultural lead on SF is even more pronounce today than even 20 years ago.
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ocman View Post
SF has the most robust economy in the country. And FAANG basically rules Wall Street talk. But wealth and great companies aren't going to economically make-up the difference with a region more than twice the population. The GDP of LA is third in the world after Toyko and NYC. Not exactly a small feat despite SF having a more robust economy than LA.

A decade ago I would say that that SF would usurp every city in the country in influence, especially with LA’s entertainment industry seeming to lose its reach, but LA’s entertainment industry adapted very well to the new tech economy especially in the current evolution of the tech era where content is now King.

It doesn’t help that tech is killing culture in SF. Tech has made SF conservative in certain ways which chips aways at it's progressive reach across the country. As hip as tech is, the whole industry is cultureless. They build up their own companies and their own wealth, but they don’t feel duty to contribute to SF’s cultural institutions or add more. So LA’s cultural lead on SF is even more pronounce today than even 20 years ago.
Yea, it's Silicon Valley coming to LA for content. They're working well together and it's fun to watch. I don't think most people (even on these forums) have a real idea what's really happening in LA"s new role.
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
LA has long-surpassed SF.
As far as population sure, otherwise I just dont see it in 2018. If this were the 1960s you would be right but the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s and now 2010s has been dominated by up north delivering one earth shaking innovation after another.

Quote:
LA is growing too, and the population/influence gap isn't shrinking.
It's no longer realistic to suggest that movies and tv shows are more influential in the lives of people daily than social media, wireless communication and the ability to search for information.

Dont get me wrong, entertainment productions are very important, but not as necessary as like a smartphone, or google/wiki, or keeping abreast of what your closest friends/family are up to.
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  #72  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dimondpark View Post
As far as population sure, otherwise I just dont see it in 2018. If this were the 1960s you would be right but the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s and now 2010s has been dominated by up north delivering one earth shaking innovation after another.



It's no longer realistic to suggest that movies and tv shows are more influential in the lives of people daily than social media, wireless communication and the ability to search for information.

Dont get me wrong, entertainment productions are very important, but not as necessary as like a smartphone, or google/wiki, or keeping abreast of what your closest friends/family are up to.
If the entertainment content (and everything related to it) on those websites suddenly stopped or became unavailable, it would get very boring to the majority of the population.

Smart phones are great, but mostly because of access to the content. That's how they became popular in the first place. How interesting would a smart phone be without enterainment options on it?

I bet the % of youtube/twitter responses is heavily swung towards to the entertainment field.

Last edited by LA21st; Dec 31, 2018 at 11:56 PM.
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2019, 12:06 AM
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LOL. If the entertainment content on those websites suddenly stopped, it would get very boring to the majority of the population.
The huge flaw in this argument is that content is *literally* made in lots of places. You don't think New York or London have the capability or producing top shelf content? Really?

Awkward.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2019, 12:10 AM
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Chicago usurped NY in hot dogs and pizza and never looked back
As long as deep dish pizza exists, the world will never see it that way.
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2019, 12:13 AM
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I find it interesting that Tallahassee is both the state capital of one of the largest population states and has a large state university within the city limits but only has a metro population of just under 200,000.
The city population of Tallahassee is just under 200,000. The metro population of Tallahassee is around 400,000. But I get your point. So many things about Florida is interesting, specifically related to population but also in general.
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2019, 12:24 AM
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If this were the 1960s you would be right but the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s and now 2010s has been dominated by up north delivering one earth shaking innovation after another.
You have it completely ass backwards. You have no sense of what truly brings value to a city beyond money. The 60s were San Francisco's heyday. It was a revolutionary cultural force throughout the world. It was a Bohemian city. A city of artists, musicians and poets. It was also a place where normal people could afford to raise a family. All that is gone now. Replaced by tech bros from India, or the Ivy League, who have no real connection to the city besides the singular pursuit of money. And yet many of them can barely make ends meet due to the cost of living, having to find roommates in cramped quarters while working 60 hour weeks. It's the only place in the world where people can make six figures and still live materially and culturally destitute lives. If you don't believe me try spending the holidays in the city some time. No other major city in America empties out during the holidays to that extent. It's actually depressing.
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2019, 12:45 AM
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You have it completely ass backwards. You have no sense of what truly brings value to a city beyond money. The 60s were San Francisco's heyday. It was a revolutionary cultural force throughout the world. It was a Bohemian city. A city of artists, musicians and poets. It was also a place where normal people could afford to raise a family. All that is gone now. Replaced by tech bros from India, or the Ivy League, who have no real connection to the city besides the singular pursuit of money. And yet many of them can barely make ends meet due to the cost of living, having to find roommates in cramped quarters while working 60 hour weeks. It's the only place in the world where people can make six figures and still live materially and culturally destitute lives. If you don't believe me try spending the holidays in the city some time. No other major city in America empties out during the holidays to that extent. It's actually depressing.
This^ melodramatic diatribe is NOT what this thread is about.

Ass backwards indeed.
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  #78  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2019, 12:48 AM
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The huge flaw in this argument is that content is *literally* made in lots of places. You don't think New York or London have the capability or producing top shelf content? Really?

Awkward.
But they don't contribute like LA does. Not even close. Where would a place like Atlanta be with TV and movies if Hollywood wasn't providing the creativity and money? Marvel might shoot there for cost reasons, but the studios and offices are in LA and always have been.
But I was talking about entertainment in general, duh. You think the Silicon Valley is the only place on Earth capable of creating things like Apple and Google? I'm sure they could, but as in the case with LA and enterainment it wouldn't be as good.

LA/Hollywood was doing just fine before the internet came along, so...

LA/SF will always have different views on this, and it's fine.

Last edited by LA21st; Jan 1, 2019 at 1:04 AM.
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2019, 12:50 AM
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This^ melodramatic diatribe is NOT what this thread is about.

Ass backwards indeed.
Where did you go for the holidays?
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2019, 1:19 AM
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The huge flaw in this argument is that content is *literally* made in lots of places. You don't think New York or London have the capability or producing top shelf content? Really?

Awkward.
But the same reasoning could be made with technology, it’s made in a lot of places. Top shelf companies are have been and are created outside of Silicon Valley. Amazon and Microsoft are in Seattle. Dell, Samsung, and IBM are elsewhere. Snapchat and SpaceX are in LA. Spotify is in Europe, and FAANG is spreading to DC and NYC. The point is that most content is made in LA. The studio system is Hollywood. And FAANG are almost exclusively setting up their content divisions in Culver City. London’s film industry is small in comparison to Hollywood, which itself acts as the world’s international capital of entertainment, and not as a local industry.
     
     
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