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  #2101  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2018, 6:40 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Potvin View Post
@Truenorth00, can you point to any empirical research as a foundation to what you say?
Burden of proof is on you. Show me a small town in Canada or the US that has had the level of growth you propose and maintained a compact build form. Just one example.
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  #2102  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2018, 11:06 PM
Joseph Potvin Joseph Potvin is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Burden of proof is on you. Show me a small town in Canada or the US that has had the level of growth you propose and maintained a compact build form. Just one example.
Let's consider the terms here then.

The deal is, as I think you suggest it, you offer any statement you feel inclined to type out without any grounding whatsoever in any study from anywhere. You accept no responsibility to back up anything you claim. And you demand that I "prove" our team's various conclusions to your personal satisfaction, whoever you are: some anonymous person with quite a lot of time on your hands. The 20-page fully referenced PPR whitepaper we published online, and many out sources that I point to here and elsewhere are of no merit, because you decline to read them, or if you do, you decline to provide any specific feedback on them. I dunno why.

Sorry, fella. That's not productive.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com
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  #2103  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2018, 11:47 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Lashing out at randos on Internet forums is definitely a habit of successful entrepreneurs that are really busy and have no free time on their hands.
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  #2104  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 12:13 AM
Joseph Potvin Joseph Potvin is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Lashing out at randos on Internet forums is definitely a habit of successful entrepreneurs that are really busy and have no free time on their hands.
I'm attempting to find out of there's anyone here interested in a genuine forum discussion. Early on there was thoughtful interchange. Serious entrepreneurs are genuinely interested in diverse viewpoints, and contrary evidence. I've not been here for a while due to the apparent lack of genuine discussion. Recently some important new legal interaction was worth sharing so I posted some links to test the waters again. Also it seemed to me that the "Compact City" framework would at least provide a basis for some of those who believe that regional transit by train leads to worse sprawl than highways do.

But to no avail. It appears anonymous unsubstantiated inclination is all that's welcome here. Too bad.

Is the "Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation > Rural Commuter Rail" sector of Skyscraper populated only by steadfast opponents to Ottawa-Gatineau connectivity by Rural Commuter Rail?

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com
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  #2105  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 12:16 AM
Orleans123 Orleans123 is offline
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Joseph Potvin,

I applaud your vision and dedication to the commuter transportation system. Ideas like these is what the Government (all levels) need to invest to remove cars from the road. Adding another lane to the Queensway is not the solution - it is a band aid solution. We need to fix the soar which is there are too many cars commuting to work.
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  #2106  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 12:34 AM
OtrainUser OtrainUser is offline
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Originally Posted by Orleans123 View Post
Joseph Potvin,

I applaud your vision and dedication to the commuter transportation system. Ideas like these is what the Government (all levels) need to invest to remove cars from the road. Adding another lane to the Queensway is not the solution - it is a band aid solution. We need to fix the soar which is there are too many cars commuting to work.

His vision is at least 100 years too early. Commuter services are generally not offered until the exurb population reaches 100k residents see GO Transit as an example one had a population of 300k people at that time. LRT service to orleans and very soon to Kanata have population of at least 100k people.

Even take a look at what VIA plans on doing with plans for thier own ROW which proves sharing track is a bad idea since it reduces reliabilty of the service. Unless Potvin can prove he can build his own ROW for the whole 400km that doesn't interfere with the city's LRT expansion plans then we have every right to demand proof of whatever he claims on building is good for Ottawa. So far Potvin has not provided it.
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  #2107  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 12:36 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by Joseph Potvin View Post
Let's consider the terms here then.

The deal is, as I think you suggest it, you offer any statement you feel inclined to type out without any grounding whatsoever in any study from anywhere. You accept no responsibility to back up anything you claim. And you demand that I "prove" our team's various conclusions to your personal satisfaction, whoever you are: some anonymous person with quite a lot of time on your hands. The 20-page fully referenced PPR whitepaper we published online, and many out sources that I point to here and elsewhere are of no merit, because you decline to read them, or if you do, you decline to provide any specific feedback on them. I dunno why.

Sorry, fella. That's not productive.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com
You couldn't offer a single example. Thanks for proving my point.

And I assure you regulators will have far tougher questions than mine.

I look forward to VIA eating your lunch on the Smiths Falls-Ottawa leg with HFR. An organization that actually operates rail service and might deliver hourly service instead of glossy brochures and internet trolling (sans facts). Imagine that.
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  #2108  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 12:38 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by OtrainUser View Post
His vision is at least 100 years too early.
His vision will never come to pass. Thankfully. Regulators aren't interested in supporting such massive exurban growth.
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  #2109  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 12:57 AM
Joseph Potvin Joseph Potvin is offline
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Originally Posted by OtrainUser View Post
Commuter services are generally not offered until the exurb population reaches 100k residents
Generally, or never?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OtrainUser View Post
Even take a look at what VIA plans on doing with plans for thier own ROW which proves sharing track is a bad idea since it reduces reliabilty of the service.
FWIW, VIA execs have consistently provided positive feedback to MOOSE. Intercity rail and metropolitan regional rail are complementary. I've have the same sorts of discussion with AMTRAK execs when I was invited to a workshop in Philadephia to discuss our Property Powered Rail model there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OtrainUser View Post
Unless Potvin can prove he can build his own ROW for the whole 400km that doesn't interfere with the city's LRT expansion plans then we have every right to demand proof of whatever he claims on building is good for Ottawa. So far Potvin has not provided it.
1. Please explain your standard of proof. We have never claimed we would not "interefere" with the City of Ottawa's LRT plans where such plans violate federal laws. Quite the contrary, we have proven that can win a federal case against illegal dismantlement and obstruction of the only rail connection with Gatineau. Our declared view is that optimizing for the Greater National Capital Region as a whole is better for all taxpayers than optimizing for ... well, perhaps YOU might say what part of the population you feel your views represent. We view all taxpayers equivalently.

2. Could you please take a look at the most recent submissions to the Transport Minister and share your views on why you would think any part of the current LRT project that is in violation of the law should NOT be interfered with? I'm getting very curious why so far nobody here has anything to say about the core of that case.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com
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  #2110  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 1:10 AM
OtrainUser OtrainUser is offline
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Originally Posted by Joseph Potvin View Post
1. Please explain your standard of proof. We have never claimed we would not "interefere" with the City of Ottawa's LRT plans where such plans violate federal laws. Quite the contrary, we have proven that can win a federal case against illegal dismantlement and obstruction of the only rail connection with Gatineau. Our declared view is that optimizing for the Greater National Capital Region as a whole is better for all taxpayers than optimizing for ... well, perhaps YOU might say what part of the population you feel your views represent. We view all taxpayers equivalently.

2. Could you please take a look at the most recent submissions to the Transport Minister and share your views on why you would think any part of the current LRT project that is in violation of the law should NOT be interfered with? I'm getting very curious why so far nobody here has anything to say about the core of that case.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com
You want to use the POW bridge knowing the fact that the city of Ottawa intends on using the bridge to extend LRT into Gatineau. The Gatineau extension is in the city of Ottawa's 2013 transportation master plan ultimate network that the city is slowly following. Any use of the bridge by MOOSE would prevent Ottawa from providing frequent LRT service on it and would hurt urban residents. So again you need to provide proof what advantage FOR URBAN residents does the MOOSE plan have.

To answer your question as to why urban residents haven't complained about the ripping up of track is because the city has to focus on URBAN residents and its own suburban residents first. Traffic from the exurbs is nowhere near the problem as is traffic from the suburbs and URBAN areas and Bayview station had to be located where they put it to provide a better transfer in the area especially when 900 Albert gets built.
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  #2111  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 1:28 AM
OtrainUser OtrainUser is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
You couldn't offer a single example. Thanks for proving my point.

And I assure you regulators will have far tougher questions than mine.

I look forward to VIA eating your lunch on the Smiths Falls-Ottawa leg with HFR. An organization that actually operates rail service and might deliver hourly service instead of glossy brochures and internet trolling (sans facts). Imagine that.

Exactly, I can easily see VIA eliminating all possibilty for MOOSE to exist by beating them to the very same areas that MOOSE claims that they want to serve. At least we know we can trust VIA rail over MOOSE any day.
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  #2112  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 1:40 AM
Joseph Potvin Joseph Potvin is offline
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Originally Posted by OtrainUser View Post
You want to use the POW bridge knowing the fact that the city of Ottawa intends on using the bridge to extend LRT into Gatineau. The Gatineau extension is in the city of Ottawa's 2013 transportation master plan ultimate network that the city is slowly following.
What Ottawa urban public interest rationale do you perceive for the City shifting the new Bayview Station 50 meters west from where it was shown in public consultations, with the result that O-Train access to the PoWB would be broken?


Quote:
Originally Posted by OtrainUser View Post
Any use of the bridge by MOOSE would prevent Ottawa from providing frequent LRT service on it.
Not if LRT is cantilevered off the side(s) and the centre remains for the main line regional rail. Like the Alexandra Bridge used to be.


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Originally Posted by OtrainUser View Post
you need to provide proof what advantage FOR URBAN residents does the MOOSE plan have.
You still haven't explained a standard of proof. Does proof mean you personally agree?


Quote:
Originally Posted by OtrainUser View Post
To answer your question as to why urban residents haven't complained about the ripping up of track is because the city has to focus on URBAN residents and its own suburban residents first. Traffic from the exurbs is nowhere near the problem as is traffic from the suburbs and URBAN areas and Bayview station had to be located where they put it to provide a better transfer in the area especially when 900 Albert gets built.
The City's focus on its urban residents justifies violations of federal railway law, for some unexplained advantage in breaking a railway connect that the City itself plans to use eventually?

And is Gatineau "exurban" in your view? Wouldn't Ottawa be better off with trains bringing people from Gatineau to Bayview, than all those STO buses? Wouldn't STO buses be better used as a feeder system to a train?

Do you not agree with us that it is in Ottawa residents' interest to have a rail connection to Gatineau park? (There is an existing bridge over Route 5 just at the south end of Morrison's Quarry. ...and yes, we do indeed plan to bring re-development of the railway through Chelsea to a public vote there once the main system gets underway elsewhere.)

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com
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  #2113  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 2:36 AM
OtrainUser OtrainUser is offline
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Originally Posted by Joseph Potvin View Post
What Ottawa urban public interest rationale do you perceive for the City shifting the new Bayview Station 50 meters west from where it was shown in public consultations, with the result that O-Train access to the PoWB would be broken?




Not if LRT is cantilevered off the side(s) and the centre remains for the main line regional rail. Like the Alexandra Bridge used to be.




You still haven't explained a standard of proof. Does proof mean you personally agree?




The City's focus on its urban residents justifies violations of federal railway law, for some unexplained advantage in breaking a railway connect that the City itself plans to use eventually?

And is Gatineau "exurban" in your view? Wouldn't Ottawa be better off with trains bringing people from Gatineau to Bayview, than all those STO buses? Wouldn't STO buses be better used as a feeder system to a train?

Do you not agree with us that it is in Ottawa residents' interest to have a rail connection to Gatineau park? (There is an existing bridge over Route 5 just at the south end of Morrison's Quarry. ...and yes, we do indeed plan to bring re-development of the railway through Chelsea to a public vote there once the main system gets underway elsewhere.)

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com
Gatineau classifies mostly as suburban based on how the city is structured. Now i get you want to serve towns with populations with at most 10k people and as little as 900 which is not sufficient to run commuter service and does not justify fighting the city even though they may have broken the rules. If their is any rail connection to Gatineau I expect frequencies of no less then every 15 min and you cannot provide that. Gatineau's LRT plan is far better than your commuter plan same goes for Ottawa's LRT.

When you stated in an earlier post your service is not for Urban residents you automatically lost me right there. I have no reason to support a plan that will interfere with Ottawa's LRT plans especially on with line 2 already at capacity with no room for any additional trains unless you are willing to pay for quadruple tracking.
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  #2114  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 3:02 AM
Joseph Potvin Joseph Potvin is offline
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Originally Posted by OtrainUser View Post
When you stated in an earlier post your service is not for Urban residents you automatically lost me right there.
Hmm, I think you might be referring to somebody's parody, rather than anything I or a MOOSE team member said. Please refer to what we DO say here, or perhaps in this article.

Didn't I say a post or two ago that we view ALL taxpayers equivalently, throughout the Greater NCR?

It's a legitimate view, for someone to push the Compact City model, if that's your perspective. But you might consider recognizing there are other legitimate views too.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com
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  #2115  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 4:30 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is online now
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To support an hourly double level 10 car GO Train, we will require 100K+. Obviously, if you switch to a single car DMU similar to what we have been using on the Trillium Line, the population needed will be significantly less. At the present time, the Trillium Line operating 5 DMUs per hour is mainly serving 25,000 Carleton students.
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  #2116  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 11:32 AM
Joseph Potvin Joseph Potvin is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
To support an hourly double level 10 car GO Train, we will require 100K+.
Not in our model, which is based on property value-added and service quality, not direct passenger volume. Our approach is to make the railway passenger experience such that people will really prefer to take the train, which is a very different approach to planning only for those who for one reason or another have to take the train.

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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
At the present time, the Trillium Line operating 5 DMUs per hour is mainly serving 25,000 Carleton students.
This narrow market reach results from the O-Train having been politically blocked from running its intended route through to Gatineau. Even today, Capital Railway's certificate of fitness says that it operates through to Quebec.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com
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  #2117  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 2:47 PM
OtrainUser OtrainUser is offline
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Originally Posted by Joseph Potvin View Post
Hmm, I think you might be referring to somebody's parody, rather than anything I or a MOOSE team member said. Please refer to what we DO say here, or perhaps in this article.

Didn't I say a post or two ago that we view ALL taxpayers equivalently, throughout the Greater NCR?

It's a legitimate view, for someone to push the Compact City model, if that's your perspective. But you might consider recognizing there are other legitimate views too.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com

Nope I am reffering to your response in comment #586 to Roger and all of your other posts before that. In earlier posts you stated you would have your feasability study done by October, well so far its been December so obviously you haven't been trustworthy when it comes to providing confidence in your plans and others have already stated why you have no business case for commuter rail, Charles has already pointed out the many flaws in it as have others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Potvin View Post
Bingo. Roger1818 wins the beer.




No restrictive covenants -- they tend to degrade re-sale value. I wonder if anyone on this blog thread has looked up the "common element commercial freehold condominium model". There's the purely contract-based variant too, under various names. Nelligan O-Brien Paine refers to these as "Joint Use and Management Agreements" (JUMAs).
http://nelligan.ca/article/whats-a-juma/
http://www.changelabsolutions.org/publications/developing-joint-use-agreement

BTW, some in this thread insist that diverse people can't cooperate for tangible mutual benefit. Their dismissive tone sounds very familiar to me. It's what the naysayers used to say about free/libre/open source software back around 2000-2010. Then the International Space Station, Google/Yahoo/Amazon/eBay/et.al., the Large Hadron Collider, the Nuclear Test Ban monitoring seismographs buried in the ground, and most of the smartphones and tablets of the world, were running free/libre/open core OS's. The naysayers still said nobody could earn any serious revenue that way, then RedHat earned its first billion in annual revenue in 2012, and reached more than $2B annually in 2016. Who in their right mind would pay RedHat money when you could just download CentOS? Ah, but that' software, the naysayer will counter, nuthn' like trains. Really? They're both mission-critical networks. Whether bytes or butts, they have to get delivered on-time and intact, and certainly in both, lives depend on multi-layered systems resilience (e.g. both MASAS and Search & Rescue Canada run on free/libre/open stacks).

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com
Here is Rogers comment

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Charles,

You are assuming that the intent Moose is to serve the general population. It isn't. It is to serve those who buy properties in their special markets. I agree there currently isn't sufficient density in that area, but it is up to the developer to change that. As for affecting property value, as long as the people in the special neighbourhood can use the train to get into town, it will help their property value. Not serving existing neighbourhoods well is a feature, as only the new properties will benefit from the station, boosting their value, not the existing properties (a scarce commodity has more value than a common one)

As for the restrictive covenant, I am not a lawyer either, but I suspect if a restrictive covenant doesn't apply, likely some other mechanism can be used (what mechanism is used to apply condo fees?). Even if it wouldn't hold up in court, the station owner likely has deeper pockets than the home owner to fight the legal battle.
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  #2118  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 3:03 PM
OtrainUser OtrainUser is offline
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https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/283-r-2007


That is the city of Ottawa Capital Railway certificate of fitness.
I hope everyone read this becuase it doesn't say anywhere they must provide service to Quebec like MOOSE is trying to insist but it does say that the city is serving 5 stations from Greenboro to Bayview which obviously MOOSE trains would make it harder to serve if they are allowed to use the tracks.
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  #2119  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 4:36 PM
JohnnyRenton JohnnyRenton is offline
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Originally Posted by Joseph Potvin View Post
Not in our model, which is based on property value-added and service quality, not direct passenger volume. Our approach is to make the railway passenger experience such that people will really prefer to take the train, which is a very different approach to planning only for those who for one reason or another have to take the train.
And this leads into some of the main criticisms I have of the project.

Nothing about the vision indicates that it will be some superb, modern, passenger experience. It is some used diesel locomotives and bilevel coaches with some fancy looking bus shelters that look vaguely reminiscent of Central Station in Ottawa. When I look at Moose, I don't see the Porter of commuter rail. I don't see fast, comfortable, modern trains. I don't see a network where getting to all the major employment areas in Ottawa is even easy. It looks like the first iteration of the O-Train back in 2001.

And even then, you can make the train stations like Porter lounges. You could use sleek, new, Euro styled DMUs. The trains could be fitted with ultra-fast wifi, and stations could have the finest coffee in the NCR. You could basically turn commuter rail into something similar to UP Express in Toronto.

But none of that would matter. At the end of the day people will choose their method of commuting based on cost, time, and convenience. If a train is slower than driving, that is a point against the system. If you have to (and Moose riders will) transfer to public transit once you get to Ottawa because major employment nodes are not served, that is an inconvenience. If it doesn't save much money, or worse, ends up costing more (once you factor in fares and however much they are paying from increased property values), that is a point against it.

People make very rational, calculated decisions when it comes to commuting. Most people are going to pick the fastest way, so that they can have more free time at the end of their work day.

And the notion that planning is only done for people who have to take a train or public transit is nonsense. Yes, there are some people who rely on the service, and it is great that they have that option so that they have more opportunities for employment so they can improve their lives. But a lot of people make the choice to use trains, subways, LRT, or busses, because it makes sense. Because it is the fastest, cheapest, and/or most convenient way to get to work. You could even make the argument that in Ottawa, transit planning is far more centered around those that have a choice, as opposed to those that do not.

It wouldn't be hard to be see what peoples thoughts about commuting are either. You could poll people with a set of questions to see what trade offs they are willing to make. Would you rather a 20 minute commute, but had to stand, or a 40 minute commute, but got to sit? What if the sitting commute was 30 minutes, which would you pick then? If taking a commuter train and then public transit was half the cost of driving, but took longer and involved at least 1 transfer, would you switch? Would you rather a 30 minute commute by bus, or a 40 minute commute by LRT? Would you rather a 30 minute commute by a single bus, or a 20 minute commute that involved LRT and then a transfer to a bus?

And those are only a few of the questions you could ask. The point to all this is that experience and branding is helpful. But unless you can provide commuters with a clear advantage (be it price, speed, or simplicity) none of the glitz matters. And right now, the vision and plan for Moose does not seem to hit any of those marks (maybe it could on price, but we haven't seen those numbers yet).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Potvin View Post
This narrow market reach results from the O-Train having been politically blocked from running its intended route through to Gatineau. Even today, Capital Railway's certificate of fitness says that it operates through to Quebec.
The problem with the O-Train going over to Gatineau is that it doesn't actually serve any meaningful employment centres or neighborhoods to make it worthwhile. It totally skirts around the downtown area and means that anyone going to work there would have to transfer to a bus in order to get anywhere meaningful. If you work in Gatineau, or are commuting to Ottawa, a bus would still be a better option even with the O-Train extended across.

From Bayview to the Airport the Trillium line has an incredible amount of value. And if the city had unlimited funds I am sure they would have started upgrading it to a two-track electrified system. But the Confederation line is far more important right now. At the end of the day plans are allowed to change. The O-Train started out as "well there is a rail line there so what the hell" kind of project. It (the O-Train system as a whole) has evolved into something more modern, and urban, since those early days.

There is no political interference. A half baked idea went into the bin. That is thoughtful, rational planning at work.

----------------------

I still have lots more questions for you but there are two in particular I would be curious to get an answer on.

1. Why does the Moose network need to be built all at once? I know economies of scale is referenced. But can you explain that in more detail. Are there cost savings for building it all at once? Are there cost savings from an operations standpoint? Maybe I am missing something, but I don't understand why it has to be an all or nothing approach, as opposed to a phased plan?

2. Is VIA working with you, or simply saying they think regional rail is a good idea and that is about it? I see that you said you are getting generally positive feedback from them. What is that feedback? What are they saying that is less than positive? Have they unequivocally said that there is no problem using their tracks? Have they inquired about using any of the other lines you want to rehabilitate/build?

Last edited by JohnnyRenton; Dec 27, 2018 at 7:15 PM.
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  #2120  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 6:55 PM
Allandale25 Allandale25 is offline
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Originally Posted by Joseph Potvin View Post
Generally, or never?



FWIW, VIA execs have consistently provided positive feedback to MOOSE. Intercity rail and metropolitan regional rail are complementary. I've have the same sorts of discussion with AMTRAK execs when I was invited to a workshop in Philadephia to discuss our Property Powered Rail model there.




1. Please explain your standard of proof. We have never claimed we would not "interefere" with the City of Ottawa's LRT plans where such plans violate federal laws. Quite the contrary, we have proven that can win a federal case against illegal dismantlement and obstruction of the only rail connection with Gatineau. Our declared view is that optimizing for the Greater National Capital Region as a whole is better for all taxpayers than optimizing for ... well, perhaps YOU might say what part of the population you feel your views represent. We view all taxpayers equivalently.

2. Could you please take a look at the most recent submissions to the Transport Minister and share your views on why you would think any part of the current LRT project that is in violation of the law should NOT be interfered with? I'm getting very curious why so far nobody here has anything to say about the core of that case.

Joseph Potvin
]
For 2., I asked you to explain the conflict between your plan and the City of Ottawa Stage 2 plan and I don't think you ever got back to me.

I can only imagine how far along in the procurement phase the City will be before there is any further update from the courts.



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